My dark theory !

[DarkDain]

Elan is going to die ! Roy is badly injured, Tarquin is ANGRY. He tried to stab Roy with a dagger, not his axe, he went back to get it right? We havnt seen it though. But dagger? Might be poisoned.

Angry Tarquin is going to try and kill Roy and Elan is going to take the hit for him. Nobody has anymore healing, Durkon is dry, potions have been drank, if he accidentally stabbed Elan nobody may be able to undo it. It would be extra dramatic since Elan has been very useful lately and Tarquin killed Nale too, with the same dagger. DRAMATIC!

It also lets them leave, possibly. If tarquin kills Elan then he no longer needs to kill Roy and the rest for reasons revolving around Elan. He doesnt seem like the type to blame them for what might happen and they DO have that quest to go on, so he lets them go. But who gets the body? He may insist on keeping it to have him resurrected at his palace.

This may interfere with whatever plan Elan had for stopping his father or it may be part of it?

This theory does not mean i want Elan to die! I wuv Elan :3

[rodneyAnonymous]

Elan is not damaged, I don't think Tarquin is going to kill him with a dagger.

[lunchboxx]

You forget, d4 + plot damage.

But yeah while I don't think this will happen, it's a pretty interesting twist that I would not mind seeing played out.

[rodneyAnonymous]

No I don't. Tarquin killed Nale with one stab because Nale was already almost dead; Tarquin is not going to one-shot Elan here. There isn't a plot reason either I don't think.

[lunchboxx]

It's enough of a plot if he accidentally stabs his son, when it's meant for Roy, so plot damage would apply.

Of course this is all hypothetical, and we don't even know if this will even happen or not.

I'm all for waiting and see anyways, so my defense does not matter to me. :smallwink:

[Everyl]

Tarquin didn't go back for his axe. He left it behind in the pyramid when Z teleported him out, and never went back down that way again before the Gate blew. The dagger and the whip are the only weapons he's openly shown himself to have on hand since then. He was no doubt planning a coup de grace to finish Roy off, despite the relatively-weak weapon. That's probably why Laurin specified that Roy was locked down - coup de grace attacks only work on helpless targets.

Also, Elan is mostly or entirely unhurt. Poison could be a factor, but he probably has castings of Neutralize Poison left, so it would have to disable or kill him with the first roll to be lethal.

I can't rule the possibility of Tarquin accidentally killing Elan out, but it seems mechanically and dramatically unlikely. The Giant likes for death to mean something, and in this case, all it would mean is that Durkon has to use some of his diamond reserve on a Raise Dead spell.

[lunchboxx]

Tarquin didn't go back for his axe. He left it behind in the pyramid when Z teleported him out, and never went back down that way again before the Gate blew. The dagger and the whip are the only weapons he's openly shown himself to have on hand since then. He was no doubt planning a coup de grace to finish Roy off, despite the relatively-weak weapon. That's probably why Laurin specified that Roy was locked down - coup de grace attacks only work on helpless targets.

Also, Elan is mostly or entirely unhurt. Poison could be a factor, but he probably has castings of Neutralize Poison left, so it would have to disable or kill him with the first roll to be lethal.

I can't rule the possibility of Tarquin accidentally killing Elan out, but it seems mechanically and dramatically unlikely. The Giant likes for death to mean something, and in this case, all it would mean is that Durkon has to use some of his diamond reserve on a Raise Dead spell.

Mechanically yeah it's unlikely, but for a story purpose, game mechanics gets tossed out the window. Again I'm not saying that it would happen, just saying it has merit.

[Everyl]

Mechanically yeah it's unlikely, but for a story purpose, game mechanics gets tossed out the window. Again I'm not saying that it would happen, just saying it has merit.

Interestingly, you bolded the part where I explained why I consider it to be unlikely for story reasons, too.

[DarkDain]

AH yeah i made a mistake on the spare axe thing, his line was that he'd have to remember to get a spare axe, but after that he has since returned home and has only revealed the Dagger as his new weapon. My memory told me he had a spare axe at home.

@Everyl i made mention of what could happen to Elans corpse, why would he allow Roy to have it? He'd have no reason to kill Roy or the gang at that moment, he'd return home WITH the corpse where he could have it resurrected and the party would be split. He knows they have a world-saving quest to do, how could they have time to rescue Elan first and its reason enough to let them go. Plus killing both sons with the same weapon is a nice dramatic cliche, Elan would be proud :P

He still wouldnt need to die, a mortal poisoning could be reason enough for him to retreat to the palace to get his son healed while logically arguing Roy down that taking Elan home is the only way to get him healed. Unless someones got some potions ><

[mimhoff]

It's enough of a plot if he accidentally stabs his son, when it's meant for Roy, so plot damage would apply.

It wasn't Tarquin's dagger that dealt plot damage. The plot works a lot more subtly than that. It was the weird energy trap surrounding the gate that Nale stupidly walked right into.

The plot demanded that Nale be one-shotted so it placed that trap right there beforehand to put him on low health. And made sure he didn't get along with the party cleric. And took all his healing potions.

Compared to that, the dagger was just a regular dagger. So the ones who are in danger are those like Belkar and Roy who have already taken their plot damage..

[lunchboxx]

Interestingly, you bolded the part where I explained why I consider it to be unlikely for story reasons, too.

Yeah it's like 4:30AM for me, I'm tired so I did not catch that. :smalltongue:



It wasn't Tarquin's dagger that dealt plot damage. The plot works a lot more subtly than that. It was the weird energy trap surrounding the gate that Nale stupidly walked right into.

The plot demanded that Nale be one-shotted so it placed that trap right there beforehand to put him on low health. And made sure he didn't get along with the party cleric. And took all his healing potions.

Compared to that, the dagger was just a regular dagger. So the ones who are in danger are those like Belkar and Roy who have already taken their plot damage..

True, then again the Giant has surprised us before, so who knows what will happen.

I'm just waiting in anticipation on what will happen next, anything can happen really.

[Roland Itiative]

I disagree that the death of Elan would bring an end to this conflict. Tarquin would not leave without his son's body (as he still seems to care for this one), and neither would Roy (who could get him resurrected as soon as dusk). It would be a very dramatic scene, but not one that would end things.

[Souhiro]

This had been discused before, as the order wining Tarquing using a Batman Gambit on him:

I cannot find the topic (Altough it was written yesterday :p ) but it was something more elaborated, and better written, but somewhat like this

- Tarquin tries to kill Roy
- Elan takes the bullet and dies
- Tarquin wants to get Elan's body and having him resurrected, while killing the rest of the order, but Roy says that Elan only would agree to get back if is Durkon who raises him
- Tarquin says that they need Elan, and they would raise him anyway
- Haley says that she doesn't care (Massive BLUFF roll here) and they would search for another bard in the nearest tavern, that's how this things work, isn't it?
- Check Mate. Tarquin retires.

-- EDIT: Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16260709#post16260709) the full theory, inside the Spoiler. Interesting read, IMHO

(Not an 100% infallible plan: Tarquin could just imprison the order and tortures them until Durkon raises Elan, but hey!)