Regarding V.'s Unknown 8th Level Evocation Spell

[eilandesq]

IIRC, we've only seen V. cast one eighth level spell--Power Word Stun. V. would have gained at least two eighth level spells upon gaining the ability to cast them at eighth level (barring the unlikely chance that V. chose a lower level spell instead). Therefore, V. probably has at least one 8th level Evocation spell (since V. is an Evoker and can cast one extra Evocation spell per level per day) ready to go, if not more. Assume that V. remains at 15th level and that V. does not have the 26 intelligence necessary for a bonus 8th level spell (though V. might if V. has the right items and added INT at all the stat gain levels)--what 8th level Evocation spell would make the most impact on Team Tarquin right now?

Polar Ray would do 15d6 cold damage with no save to one target (which would certainly finish Miron if he isn't already down for the count, and would probably seriously threaten Laurin with her probable 45-90 HP (psions have d4 hit dice, and since she's manifesting 9th level psionic powers she's probably 17th-20th level, and may have a decent Con)). Useful, but it requires a ranged touch attack that could easily miss a caster with good Dex and a Ring of Protection with a good touch AC bonus, and if V. wanted to risk that V. would probably just break out the disintegrate spell and hope for a failed save to do 30d6, which would insta-kill either caster.

Clenched First is not powerful enough to want to break out for this encounter, and V. would probably not memorize it even if it is in V's spellbook, barring a warning that it would be specifically useful in an upcoming encounter.

Sunburst is very effective against undead (and might have been the party's only hope if Xykon had remained and V. showed up in time to impact the fight), but wouldn't be very useful here--with no unfriendly undead and 6d6 damage base damage, the spell would be flashy but not otherwise useful.

Telekinetic sphere would be effective against Tarquin alone (though he might make a reflex save and avoid it), but with Laurin around to cast psionic disintegrate it would be all but useless here.

That leaves Greater Shout, which on the surface doesn't look all that impressive, doing only 10d6, albeit in a cone large enough to affect all three members of Team Tarquin, which would likely finish off Miron if he isn't already dead, and take another significant chunk of HP off of Laurin even if she makes her Fortitude save (Tarquin, of course, would take negligible damage compared to his probable 150+ HP total). But consider this--Laurin is a psion--a class which uses a crystalline psicrystal that is kept on or near her body (at her level, it might even be flying around inconspicuously nearby), and that psicrystal will take half of 15d6 damage if it is in the area of the Greater Shout and fails its Reflex save, possibly destroying it and depriving Laurin of whatever bonuses it gives her. Also--the Giant has gone to the trouble of drawing what appear to be three ioun stones orbiting around Laurin, which are undoubtedly granting her useful abilities (unless the Giant is just messing with us by putting them there). Per the SRD, they are made of crystalline stone and have 10 HP & 5 hardness--meaning that a direct or even partial hit from V.'s Greater Shout will pulverize them and probably significantly damage Laurin's offensive/defensive abilities along with seriously ticking her off.

If this is to happen, it will probably happen in the upcoming round, while Roy recovers and the OotS members on the ground regroup. If Miron is conscious, he will either flee or immediately try to use a potion.

[Blisstake]

I'm starting to think that The Giant thought Power Word Stun was a 7th level spell, because it's a bit odd that we haven't seen V cast any other 8th level spells in a few hundred strips. Same with Durkon, who ran out of spells without us seeing a single 8th level spell. (Although they could be different levels, I guess)

[Werbaer]

what 8th level Evocation spell would make the most impact on Team Tarquin right now?
But V doesn't rest for spells now; so she will have prepared whatever she considered usefull for searching the windy canyon, dealing with illusions, and meeting the Draketooths.

[AstralFire]

V cast an 8th level Hand spell as well, I believe. At least, that's what someone else told me.

Only other thing to add is that we have no direct evidence of Laurin being 17 to 20th level. Wormhole is assumed to be a 9th level power based on pretty strong circumstantial evidence of Laurin's power, Mr. Burlew's writing tendencies, and the 2E version of the power. Its strength derives partially from what we assume about her, not the other way around.

[StLordeth]

But V doesn't rest for spells now; so she will have prepared whatever she considered usefull for searching the windy canyon, dealing with illusions, and meeting the Draketooths.
^ This.

Polar Ray on Miron right now would be it for him. Unless he has some alteration buffs on him we're not aware of. I'd go with that one as your best bet as far as usefulness that you named.

The Greater Shout, however, would be a very interesting tactic, and would be refreshing to see V not only blasting stuff away.


V cast an 8th level Hand spell as well, I believe. At least, that's what someone else told me.

Only other thing to add is that we have no direct evidence of Laurin being 17 to 20th level. Wormhole is assumed to be a 9th level power based on pretty strong circumstantial evidence of Laurin's power, Mr. Burlew's writing tendencies, and the 2E version of the power. Its strength derives partially from what we assume about her, not the other way around. Very true, and I'm not as well-versed in Spells as a lot of people on here, but I thought it was at least level 9 when I first saw the arrival of Tarq and Laurin.

It simply looks like a very high level spell if that makes sense.

[Werbaer]

I'm starting to think that The Giant thought Power Word Stun was a 7th level spell, because it's a bit odd that we haven't seen V cast any other 8th level spells in a few hundred strips. Same with Durkon, who ran out of spells without us seeing a single 8th level spell. (Although they could be different levels, I guess)
According to the Class and level geekery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311888) thread, Durkon is level 14, while V is level 15.

Why didn 't we see V use a high level spell? When did she have the chance and need to cast one? When she did cast Power Word Stun, she was immobilized, and couldn't cast most of her spells. Since then, this is the first fight we see her in.

[AstralFire]

I absolutely agree that it's a 9th level power (or a serious augment of a lower power to effectively be 9th level - this is not an unrealistic possibility, given how much some augments change powers), I'm just pointing out a small flaw in the specific line of logic in the main post. :)

[zimmerwald1915]

Vaarsuvius cast the level 8 evocation spell Bugsby's (sic.) clenched fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clenchedFist.htm) to try and warn Roy, Elan, Haley and Belkar not to destroy Girard' Gate. We know this because Vaarsuvius used the hand to knock on the wall of the chamber she was in, something that requires the hand to make an attack roll against the wall. None of the lower-level Bugsby's (sic.) hand spells allow the hand to make attack rolls. QED.

Bugsby's (sic.) clenched fist and power word: stun could easily make up Vaarsuvius' entire suite of level 8 spells, since she gains two spells at level-up and has to research or copy any others she wants to learn. This does not have to be the case, and there would be no reason to cry foul if the Giant had her cast polar ray or somesuch during this fight. As a level 15 evoker Vaarsuvius would have one more level 8 spell remaining, which need not be evocation; as a level 16 evoker she would have two level 8 spells remaining, neither of which need be evocation. But as we already know one of the level 8 evocations in Vaarsuvius' spellbook, there is no mystery for this thread to address.

[dancrilis]

People seem to think that Miron is down or close to it - buffing healing etc while doing through the wormholes to me seems more likely.

In fact based on the third last panel (927) Laurin seems more put out than he does by a decent margin (which makes since as she would not have been buffing herself).

Anyway I suspect that it is a hand spell because V likes them, if it is not I suspect it is Sunburst as something that V may want in the future as they know they are up against a cleric, a sorcerer lich, and a necromancy focused theurge (from the knowledge that V has). So it is a solid long term choice.


I absolutely agree that it's a 9th level power (or a serious augment of a lower power to effectively be 9th level - this is not an unrealistic possibility, given how much some augments change powers), I'm just pointing out a small flaw in the specific line of logic in the main post. :)
To take the army to the scene it was likely level 9 power for moving the dinosaur I suspect that it was Dimension Door, Psionic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dimensionDoorPsionic.htm) possible used as a move action.

[eilandesq]

I'm starting to think that The Giant thought Power Word Stun was a 7th level spell, because it's a bit odd that we haven't seen V cast any other 8th level spells in a few hundred strips. Same with Durkon, who ran out of spells without us seeing a single 8th level spell. (Although they could be different levels, I guess)

V. is barred from the Conjuration and Necromancy schools due to V.'s Evoker specialization, which makes several of the most effective 8th level spells (incendiary cloud, horrid wilting maze, trap the soul) unavailable. The result is that while the 8th level spells give V. more options, they don't represent an inherently superior choice to what V.'s 6th or 7th level spells can do (for example, Polar Ray has some advantages over Disintegrate because it allows no save, but does half as much damage as Disintegrate on a failed save, still has to hit in the same way as Disintegrate, and is relatively useless vs. cold resistant/immune creatures). Just as V.'s use of Power Word Stun was a perfect moment to use that spell (grappled, need to disrupt a spell *right then*), if V. uses another 8th level spell it will probably be because it is either the perfect spell for that moment or comedically inappropriate due to circumstances V. did not anticipate.

[eilandesq]

Vaarsuvius cast the level 8 evocation spell Bugsby's (sic.) clenched fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clenchedFist.htm) to try and warn Roy, Elan, Haley and Belkar not to destroy Girard' Gate. We know this because Vaarsuvius used the hand to knock on the wall of the chamber she was in, something that requires the hand to make an attack roll against the wall. None of the lower-level Bugsby's (sic.) hand spells allow the hand to make attack rolls. QED.

Bugsby's (sic.) clenched fist and power word: stun could easily make up Vaarsuvius' entire suite of level 8 spells, since she gains two spells at level-up and has to research or copy any others she wants to learn. This does not have to be the case, and there would be no reason to cry foul if the Giant had her cast polar ray or somesuch during this fight. As a level 15 evoker Vaarsuvius would have one more level 8 spell remaining, which need not be evocation; as a level 16 evoker she would have two level 8 spells remaining, neither of which need be evocation. But as we already know one of the level 8 evocations in Vaarsuvius' spellbook, there is no mystery for this thread to address.

Good point, I had forgotten that one (though given that the target was a wall a creative player might try using one of the lower versions ability to bull rush with a large STR bonus to bang into the wall, since the object is to make noise, not damage the wall). However, I will amend my scenario to suggest that V. might have decided to use V.'s time in the Azure City spell library to pick up a 8th level spell or two, since we know V. was there for a few days and (tantrum about silly rules regarding spell scribing aside) probably would have wanted to get access to spells that V. would be unlikely to get sources for later other than from leveling). So, same scenario except that the unknown evocation spell would be V.'s *second* one for the level.

[Blisstake]

According to the Class and level geekery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311888) thread, Durkon is level 14, while V is level 15.

Why didn 't we see V use a high level spell? When did she have the chance and need to cast one? When she did cast Power Word Stun, she was immobilized, and couldn't cast most of her spells. Since then, this is the first fight we see her in.

Class Levels and Geekery bases levels off spells they see being cast, so that's kind of circular. V had the chance at long range against Tarquin + Co and against all the soldiers. Also against Z.

But, as has been pointed out, the fist spell was 8th level, so it looks like I was mistaken. There are so many of those spells that I lose track of which level they're at :smallsmile:

[eilandesq]

People seem to think that Miron is down or close to it - buffing healing etc while doing through the wormholes to me seems more likely.

In fact based on the third last panel (927) Laurin seems more put out than he does by a decent margin (which makes since as she would not have been buffing herself).

Anyway I suspect that it is a hand spell because V likes them, if it is not I suspect it is Sunburst as something that V may want in the future as they know they are up against a cleric, a sorcerer lich, and a necromancy focused theurge (from the knowledge that V has). So it is a solid long term choice.


To take the army to the scene it was likely level 9 power for moving the dinosaur I suspect that it was Dimension Door, Psionic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/dimensionDoorPsionic.htm) possible used as a move action.

Miron had already taken a direct hit, and the yellow ray does four times as much damage as the red one (twice as much even if he saves and Laurin doesn't). They are both d4 HD caster types, so unless Laurin has a CON below 10 (which is possible but unlikely) and Miron has a huge CON (18 or higher), Laurin is almost certainly in much better condition.

[luagha]

Sunburst has a huge area of effect and would have been optimal for the mass battle (although it would also have attracted a lot of hostile attention). That V didn't cast it then suggests he doesn't have it or doesn't have it memorized for a dungeon-based indoors adventure against a lot of traps and illusions where its massive area of effect would not be used.

While Sunburst only does 6d6 damage to non-undead, a failed save (at V's highest DC) causes blindness which is only cured with Cure Blindness, Heal, or ointment that we know Tarquin has. At this point, a Sunburst is mostly useful to delay Miron and Laurin a round or two while they fumble to whoever has the ointment and apply it.

(I assume that Tarquin is going to make all his saves both because he's clearly counter-based and save-based as well as for obvious dramatic reasons.)

[multilis]

This thread is under the false assumption that an 8th level spell is *needed* to help defeat the 3 Tarquinites. Really only think V has to give up is dignity, so therefore the 8th spell could be anything.

V recently had an unspeakable adventure on another plane. And while yes it was fiendish, it is not the down under one, but worse than that.

As a result, V has a magic item that can make opponents smell like *shudder* ranch dressing and thus smell like irresistible salad to a herbivore dinosaur. Clearly V is being forced to have to stoop to using it which will help move V solidly into the "shallow end of alignment pool".

[eilandesq]

This thread is under the false assumption that an 8th level spell is *needed* to help defeat the 3 Tarquinites. Really only think V has to give up is dignity, so therefore the 8th spell could be anything.

V recently had an unspeakable adventure on another plane. And while yes it was fiendish, it is not the down under one, but worse than that.

As a result, V has a magic item that can make opponents smell like *shudder* ranch dressing and thus smell like irresistible salad to a herbivore dinosaur. Clearly V is being forced to have to stoop to using it which will help move V solidly into the "shallow end of alignment pool".

The dinosaur--having just been sent to another plane by the Prismatic Spray--may be experiencing that ranch dressing smell more directly right now, assuming that he didn't end up in Sunnydale, California in front of an annoyed Vampire Slayer as I suggested in a comment on the main #927 post.

As for V., he doesn't *have* to use a new spell--Disintegrate would work just fine on one of the casters, or Chain Lightning to hit all three targets (though Tarquin would probably ride it out with little or no damage, since it seems he has a Ring of Evasion). Using a new high level spell creatively would be more interesting, though, and The Giant's narrative choices usually fall into that category even in situations where I might have chosen another option if I was writing the story. Appreciating the different approaches that creators take is a large part of the fun.

[Kareasint]

I would guess Greater Shout since V was once in a situation where he needed a sonic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0345.html) spell and did not have it. And as Zimmerwald1915 pointed out, another 8th level spell may have been used to try and warn Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html).

[Kish]

As Zimmer points out, we've seen Vaarsuvius cast two eighth-level spells, one of them Evocation.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I think it's clenched fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clenchedFist.htm), and we have seen V use it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html).

[eilandesq]

I would guess Greater Shout since V was once in a situation where he needed a sonic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0345.html) spell and did not have it. And as Zimmerwald1915 pointed out, another 8th level spell may have been used to try and warn Roy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html).

In fairness, V. may have *had* sonic spells and just not memorized them that day, though we know that V. scribes scrolls at times ("I was hoping that we'd kill Belkar for the XP--I could have used it to scribe some scrolls."), so I'd think V'd scribe a few miscellaneous attack spells using obscure energy types just to be thorough if V did have sonic spells, so you have a good idea there.

[eilandesq]

I think it's clenched fist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clenchedFist.htm), and we have seen V use it (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html).

Yes--I conceded that point above (while pointing out that the effect shown could possibly be simulated by another Hand spell using its known abilities) and moved on to "assuming V. has another 8th level Evocation that we haven't seen yet, what would it be?"

[rodneyAnonymous]

Given that V really likes the various hand spells, I think it's that even if it wasn't being used to warn Roy.

[St Fan]

Sunburst has a huge area of effect and would have been optimal for the mass battle (although it would also have attracted a lot of hostile attention). That V didn't cast it then suggests he doesn't have it or doesn't have it memorized for a dungeon-based indoors adventure against a lot of traps and illusions where its massive area of effect would not be used.


Sunburst might not have been that optimal precisely because of its huge area of effect: casting it in the large battle without hitting the rest of the Order, whom were in the middle of it, would have been difficult. And note that this spell is quite deadly to vampires, so V would have taken the risk to destroy Durkon utterly (nobody save Rich knows how Protection from Daylight would interact with it).

[dancrilis]

Miron had already taken a direct hit, and the yellow ray does four times as much damage as the red one (twice as much even if he saves and Laurin doesn't). They are both d4 HD caster types, so unless Laurin has a CON below 10 (which is possible but unlikely) and Miron has a huge CON (18 or higher), Laurin is almost certainly in much better condition.

The low level warding spell resist energy will save him 30 damage for (call him level 18) 3 hours - five castings to cover all energy types is a solid use of resources when it is only a level 2 spell and you are up against a wizard above low levels.
So if he saved it would be 10 damage.

That is assuming he didn't splash out for Protection from Energy (a third level spell), and avoided all damage.

Now he could easily not have done so, but he could easily have done so as well.

As such we can assume that he took between 0 and 80 damage, with no real indication of which side of that it is more likely to fall on (other than the art not showing him as suffering as much as Laurin - who we assume took between 0 and 20).

How damaged he is will depend (obviously) on how damaged he needs to be for the story - but until we know more on that front he does not need to have been damaged at all for the story. Having him get up annoyed that he fell off the dinosaur and that being it - is entirely realistic for a high level character (as is having him lying in the ground trying to pass a stability check - though I would say being fine is more likely).


And note that this spell is quite deadly to vampires, so V would have taken the risk to destroy Durkon utterly
Well V might not know that is a risk - having no (demonstrated) knowledge the Durkon is a vampire and all.

[orrion]

I would have said Sunburst because the team knows - or at least assumes - they're eventually going to fight Xykon, and V was being smart about his role and such at the point he presumably gained 8th level spells. Sunburst would be pretty effective against Xykon.



That is assuming he didn't splash out for Protection from Energy (a third level spell), and avoided all damage.

Now he could easily not have done so, but he could easily have done so as well.

As such we can assume that he took between 0 and 80 damage, with no real indication of which side of that it is more likely to fall on (other than the art not showing him as suffering as much as Laurin - who we assume took between 0 and 20).

We've seen - twice - what happens when things take zero damage from the electricity beam. V hit the Ancient Black Dragon and Zz'dtri with that beam, both of which were ineffective. With Miron, we have the arcing bolts of electricity all over him and his painful expression.

So, I'm going to say he took a chunk of damage.

[kojar]

Irresistible dance would be hilarious, and no saving throw.
I can just imagine a pissed off Tarquin dancing :smalltongue:
As for Evocations: I'm betting on either Polar ray or Greater shout.

Edit: Oh yeah, Scintillating pattern might also work.

Edit, again: one more thing, I think V might somehow get neutralized in the next strip. I mean, Surely Miron or Laurin have SOMETHING to take care of him/her.

[Silva Stormrage]

Well V might not know that is a risk - having no (demonstrated) knowledge the Durkon is a vampire and all.


V was watching on the Plasma Screen. I have all confidence V knew Durkon was a vampire and an ally.

And ya I hope its irresistible dance just to see Tarquin forced to dance :smalltongue:

[JCAll]

The low level warding spell resist energy will save him 30 damage for (call him level 18) 3 hours - five castings to cover all energy types is a solid use of resources when it is only a level 2 spell and you are up against a wizard above low levels.
So if he saved it would be 10 damage.

That is assuming he didn't splash out for Protection from Energy (a third level spell), and avoided all damage.

Now he could easily not have done so, but he could easily have done so as well.

As such we can assume that he took between 0 and 80 damage, with no real indication of which side of that it is more likely to fall on (other than the art not showing him as suffering as much as Laurin - who we assume took between 0 and 20).

How damaged he is will depend (obviously) on how damaged he needs to be for the story - but until we know more on that front he does not need to have been damaged at all for the story. Having him get up annoyed that he fell off the dinosaur and that being it - is entirely realistic for a high level character (as is having him lying in the ground trying to pass a stability check - though I would say being fine is more likely).


Well V might not know that is a risk - having no (demonstrated) knowledge the Durkon is a vampire and all.

We know he's not completely immune, because he took damage from the lightning bolt V cast last strip.

[DaggerPen]

The low level warding spell resist energy will save him 30 damage for (call him level 18) 3 hours - five castings to cover all energy types is a solid use of resources when it is only a level 2 spell and you are up against a wizard above low levels.
So if he saved it would be 10 damage.

That is assuming he didn't splash out for Protection from Energy (a third level spell), and avoided all damage.

Now he could easily not have done so, but he could easily have done so as well.

As such we can assume that he took between 0 and 80 damage, with no real indication of which side of that it is more likely to fall on (other than the art not showing him as suffering as much as Laurin - who we assume took between 0 and 20).

How damaged he is will depend (obviously) on how damaged he needs to be for the story - but until we know more on that front he does not need to have been damaged at all for the story. Having him get up annoyed that he fell off the dinosaur and that being it - is entirely realistic for a high level character (as is having him lying in the ground trying to pass a stability check - though I would say being fine is more likely).


Well V might not know that is a risk - having no (demonstrated) knowledge the Durkon is a vampire and all.

I was going to say that Durkon's now much paler and has red eyes, fangs and a black speech bubble, but I suppose physical appearances matter little to V (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0643.html).

[dancrilis]

V was watching on the Plasma Screen. I have all confidence V knew Durkon was a vampire and an ally.

We don't know what they were watching on the Plasma Screen, but very little was said that indicates that Durkon was a vampire during that time anyway (baring the Nale element).
But we know that they were not watching Nale while Sabine was on the phone with Qarr.


We know he's not completely immune, because he took damage from the lightning bolt V cast last strip.
A fair point - but one that might have encouraged him to put on some protection (or given how little damage he had showing from it it could be an indication that he already had protection on).

[orrion]

A fair point - but one that might have encouraged him to put on some protection (or given how little damage he had showing from it it could be an indication that he already had protection on).

Are you just ignoring the multiple arcs of electricity going over his body and his "Damnit this hurts" expression?

[AKA_Bait]

And ya I hope its irresistible dance just to see Tarquin forced to dance :smalltongue:

I really hope its not. The Giant has done a good job of avoiding the inclusion of game-breaking D&D spells up to this point and the Dance is pretty broken in my view.

[dancrilis]

Are you just ignoring the multiple arcs of electricity going over his body and his "Damnit this hurts" expression?

No I'm not.

Did he get hit by an electric attack. I say yes.
Did it damage him. I say probably.

My basic point on Miron is that there are a number of people who seem to believe that he is likely very low on life - and that these people may be wrong.

None of which I suppose has much to do with V's level eight spells.

[eilandesq]

No I'm not.

Did he get hit by an electric attack. I say yes.
Did it damage him. I say probably.

My basic point on Miron is that there are a number of people who seem to believe that he is likely very low on life - and that these people may be wrong.

None of which I suppose has much to do with V's level eight spells.

Except for usefulness arguments--I was operating under the assumption that:

--Tarquin is more or less at full hit points (probably somewhere in the 150-200 range), meaning that nothing is going to one shot him other than failing a save for a "save or die" spell, though a failed save on a "save or suck" spell might slow him down considerably: his saves are really, really good apparently in all three categories;

--Laurin is only moderately wounded at most, and has probably burned half or so of her psionic points. She is still very dangerous, but is vulnerable to being one-shotted by a failed save vs. disintegrate or any other high damage spell;

--Miron is almost certainly in very bad shape, being an arcane caster who has taken two significant hits, the last one from a spell that does 40 damage on even a made save unless he has evasion (the art suggested he doesn't) or protective magic against electricity (possible, but not yet revealed). Barring revelations in that area, he's probably already unconscious or dead, or prone to being one-shotted by *any* significant attack (much like Belkar).

[Olinser]

No I'm not.

Did he get hit by an electric attack. I say yes.
Did it damage him. I say probably.

My basic point on Miron is that there are a number of people who seem to believe that he is likely very low on life - and that these people may be wrong.

None of which I suppose has much to do with V's level eight spells.

Rich's damage graphic says that he had taken a moderate, but not huge, amount of damage BEFORE the prismatic spray hit him. He is clearly in pain and taking damage from the ray - while I direct you to notice the lack of any kind of graphic on Tarquin despite being hit by the acid damage ray, while Laurin is on fire and Miron is clearly being electrocuted. Rich is almost certainly trying to tell us that Tarquin took no damage, and Laurin and Miron took damage.

So add that minimum 40 damage on top with his d4 HP, and Miron has taken significant damage. Not as much relatively as Roy, but if Miron has lost 1/2 his health pool and Roy has lost 3/4, Miron has lower HP. A caster being low on HP means that he could easily be 1 shot by Roy or a Disintegrate.

And the whole bit about protection from all energies is a bit absurd. Would that be a smart thing to do in a D&D group about to enter a dungeon? Absolutely.

For the 'real' OOTS world, Resist Energy only has a 10 min/level duration. So even if Miron DID wake up and cast it every day, if he's 18th level it only lasts 3 hours (only 4 if he's 24th, which is higher than even most of the 'Tarquin's group are EPIC!' people claim). A recast would take it to 6 hours (8 if he's 24). So he's going to burn his 2nd level spell slots for only covering 1/4 of the day on the off chance he might need it in that period? Or prepare 5 useless-in-combat spells on the off chance that a wizard is going to attack him and let him spend 5 rounds buffing himself? Yeah, no. 2nd level has far more useful spells.

And it can be 'proven' false by one simple test:

Protection from Arrows is a 2nd level spell that lasts 1 HOUR a level. So even an 18th level Miron could cover almost the entire day with a single cast (the entire day if he's 24). He is FAR more likely to encounter an arrow to the head than an enemy wizard.

Did Miron have Protection from Arrows on him for this fight? No he did not.

[Emanick]

Rich's damage graphic says that he had taken a moderate, but not huge, amount of damage BEFORE the prismatic spray hit him. He is clearly in pain and taking damage from the ray - while I direct you to notice the lack of any kind of graphic on Tarquin despite being hit by the acid damage ray, while Laurin is on fire and Miron is clearly being electrocuted. Rich is almost certainly trying to tell us that Tarquin took no damage, and Laurin and Miron took damage.

So add that minimum 40 damage on top with his d4 HP, and Miron has taken significant damage. Not as much relatively as Roy, but if Miron has lost 1/2 his health pool and Roy has lost 3/4, Miron has lower HP. A caster being low on HP means that he could easily be 1 shot by Roy or a Disintegrate.

And the whole bit about protection from all energies is a bit absurd. Would that be a smart thing to do in a D&D group about to enter a dungeon? Absolutely.

For the 'real' OOTS world, Resist Energy only has a 10 min/level duration. So even if Miron DID wake up and cast it every day, if he's 18th level it only lasts 3 hours (only 4 if he's 24th, which is higher than even most of the 'Tarquin's group are EPIC!' people claim). A recast would take it to 6 hours (8 if he's 24). So he's going to burn his 2nd level spell slots for only covering 1/4 of the day on the off chance he might need it in that period? Or prepare 5 useless-in-combat spells on the off chance that a wizard is going to attack him and let him spend 5 rounds buffing himself? Yeah, no. 2nd level has far more useful spells.

And it can be 'proven' false by one simple test:

Protection from Arrows is a 2nd level spell that lasts 1 HOUR a level. So even an 18th level Miron could cover almost the entire day with a single cast (the entire day if he's 24). He is FAR more likely to encounter an arrow to the head than an enemy wizard.

Did Miron have Protection from Arrows on him for this fight? No he did not.

He could be a sorcerer and simply not know Protection from Arrows. Miron doesn't strike me as the wizard type.

But I agree with your conclusion.

[Snails]

Protection from Arrows provides 10/magic, and would have zero value against Haley's bow. So we do not know, and we do not care.

I agree with the conclusion that Tarquin should be assumed to be at full strength. The difference in how reactions were depicted strongly implied he made his save. At worst he took 20 damage. More likely he suffered 0 or 10 damage (having a bit of Resist Acid in a magic item).

[dancrilis]

Rich's damage graphic says that he had taken a moderate, but not huge, amount of damage BEFORE the prismatic spray hit him. He is clearly in pain and taking damage from the ray - while I direct you to notice the lack of any kind of graphic on Tarquin despite being hit by the acid damage ray, while Laurin is on fire and Miron is clearly being electrocuted. Rich is almost certainly trying to tell us that Tarquin took no damage, and Laurin and Miron took damage.
I would say the graphic shows Miron was scratched before, and that he took damage from the ray - but he looks annoyed not worried, so not much.
Laurin on the other hand looks hurt to the point of screaming.


And the whole bit about protection from all energies is a bit absurd. Would that be a smart thing to do in a D&D group about to enter a dungeon? Absolutely.

For the 'real' OOTS world, Resist Energy only has a 10 min/level duration. So even if Miron DID wake up and cast it every day, if he's 18th level it only lasts 3 hours (only 4 if he's 24th, which is higher than even most of the 'Tarquin's group are EPIC!' people claim). A recast would take it to 6 hours (8 if he's 24). So he's going to burn his 2nd level spell slots for only covering 1/4 of the day on the off chance he might need it in that period? Or prepare 5 useless-in-combat spells on the off chance that a wizard is going to attack him and let him spend 5 rounds buffing himself? Yeah, no. 2nd level has far more useful spells.
Actually I was assuming that he might use them once he felt that he would be getting into a fight and thought he would be facing a wizard - such as when he went through the wormholes.



And it can be 'proven' false by one simple test:
Protection from Arrows is a 2nd level spell that lasts 1 HOUR a level. So even an 18th level Miron could cover almost the entire day with a single cast (the entire day if he's 24). He is FAR more likely to encounter an arrow to the head than an enemy wizard.

Did Miron have Protection from Arrows on him for this fight? No he did not.
Your definition of proven and mine differ.

Regardless assuming he knew he was up against a wizard and a vampire cleric with a high level party of assorted others - than I believe that assuming that he buffed himself (and his party) is a logical assumption.

Is it possible he didn't?, sure it is.
Are there reasons to suspect he didn't?, sure there are.
The reverse of those are also true.

But until we see him very badly damaged such as Belkar panel 13 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0879.html), or O-chul panel 26 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0542.html), or Roy panel 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html), I will assume he is still fairly alright.

[rodneyAnonymous]

The beam that hit Miron does twice as much damage as the one that hit Laurin. Even "worst case scenaro" (Miron saves, Laurin does not) they do the same damage. Possibly energy resistance is involved somewhere, which might tip the scales, but not that far, given that they both apparently took damage (tipping the scales really far would mean one of them took zero damage, which is clearly not true). It's unlikely that she took more damage than he did from the prismatic spray, and nearly impossible that she took a lot more damage.

"Annoyed but not worried" is reading too much into Miron's expression. He is wincing. Why? Dunno. But given evidence besides his eyebrows, probably because that hurt and he is low on hps.

[Shale]

Also, people do naturally have different reactions to being shocked with electricity, even a lot of electricity, versus set on fire.

[orrion]

The beam that hit Miron does twice as much damage as the one that hit Laurin. Even "worst case scenaro" (Miron saves, Laurin does not) they do the same damage. Possibly energy resistance is involved somewhere, which might tip the scales, but not that far, given that they both apparently took damage (tipping the scales really far would mean one of them took zero damage, which is clearly not true). It's unlikely that she took more damage than he did from the prismatic spray, and nearly impossible that she took a lot more damage.

"Annoyed but not worried" is reading too much into Miron's expression. He is wincing. Why? Dunno. But given evidence besides his eyebrows, probably because that hurt and he is low on hps.

No, it does 4x as much damage.

10/20 vs. 40/80.

[dancrilis]

Well he was able to take a hit from Roy, two stab wounds from Belkar, four arrows from Haley - before his contingency activated.
So I say he was not nearly dead and ready to fall in a hit or two after 927.

After 928? that is a different story - he looked pretty bad.
Though he may will heal up and come back.

[rodneyAnonymous]

No, it does 4x as much damage.

Oh oops, was thinking orange v. yellow instead of red v. yellow. Chance Miron took more damage from that spell goes from "highly probable" to "almost certain".