Magic poor society and high level sorcerer

[Zeromage1]

I have a magic poor society. The kingdom has 70,000 men at arms and no wizards. Would a 10th level sorcerer be able to easily take over this world? This is the pathfinder rules system. The kingdom will hand clerics and paladins though.

[Alleran]

How is this society governed? If it has a monarch, then they could probably be a power behind the throne without too much trouble.

[Alabenson]

If they have sufficiently leveled clerics, then they probably wouldn't qualify as "magic-poor", seeing as how clerics are every bit as powerful as wizards are.

[Emperor Tippy]

In Pathfinder? Not sure. In 3.5, see the spoiler.

10th level means Lesser Planar Binding. That can get you a Mirror Mephit. A Mirror Mephit can get you a Simulacrum of an Efreeti. A Simulacrum of an Efreeti get's you 3 XP free Wish's per day. You can spend those 3 Wish's on scrolls of Ice Assassin of a Pit Fiend.

The next day use your Wish's for scrolls of Ice Assassin of a Solar.

Now use all of your scrolls. Now cast Telepathic Bond's between yourself and each of the three Pit Fiends and between each of the Pit Fiends and one another before having the Solar's make them permanent.

Now have the Solar's and your Efreeti Wish up Craft Contingent Extended Persistent Fiendish Quickness's and Craft Contingent Extended Persistent Greater Ironguard's for each of the Pit Fiends.

Now have your Pit Fiends go to town on the army by flying overhead and dropping Fireballs on said army until it breaks. Thanks to the Greater Ironguard your minions are immune to metal weapons (arrows count) with less than a +3 bonus.

Once the army breaks have your Pit Fiends chase down and destroy it in detail using their quickened greater teleport to track them down.

[ArqArturo]

If they have sufficiently leveled clerics, then they probably wouldn't qualify as "magic-poor", seeing as how clerics are every bit as powerful as wizards are.

Perhaps more, because they have better health benefits (in the shape of HD and healing/buff/protection spells).

[Segev]

What is the level spread of your clerics?

[Coidzor]

What levels of clerics and paladins does it have?
What kind of government does the place have?
What kind of relationship exists between the clerics and government?

[Der_DWSage]

Another important question:What kind of spells does your Sorcerer have? By all rights, he could simply Dominate Person the king, and bob's yer uncle, he's set himself up as the new ruler with a single 5th level spell slot and a few Bluff checks.

[Coidzor]

Another important question:What kind of spells does your Sorcerer have? By all rights, he could simply Dominate Person the king, and bob's yer uncle, he's set himself up as the new ruler with a single 5th level spell slot and a few Bluff checks.

And he's got a great pitch for getting into a position to do so legitimately, seeing as there's no court magister.

[Lord Vukodlak]

70'000 men at arms tells me that's the size of the army this would imply a rather sizable Kingdom even if they don't have arcane casters. So there should be powerful enough clerics to combat a 10th level Sorcerer.

[Der_DWSage]

I hadn't even considered that. Huh.

But yeah, let's look at a few different ways one potentially 'takes over' a kingdom.

Force:He's got some potential here, but it's hard to say. He has the Charisma to spark riots in the streets and get the bandit gangs working for him, but without more knowledge on exactly how the kingdom's defenses are set up, it's very hard to say. A possibility, but probably not from spells alone.

Assassination:Well, if he has Invisibility, Zone of Silence, Fly, a scythe, and decent knowledge of the Coup-de-grace rules, as well as a lack of morals, he can probably assassinate most of the royal family before anyone knows what's happening. Low magic is a pain for the mundanes when someone with high magic comes waltzing around.

Enchantment:I did that one a post ago. Very possible, and likely a Sorcerer's preferred way of handling things.

So of all these...Possible. Not guaranteed. And the Sorcerer is unlikely to have enough defenses to keep someone from offing him if he's found out.

In all likelihood, he's more likely to play the part of Evil Vizier. Has the king in the palm of his hand, and is the true power behind the throne, but the king is his fall guy.

[Angelalex242]

The Sorcerer can probably kill the king, but once he does, the Temples will be up his butt and around the corner. In short, the clerics would be functioning as his 'viziers', and a single arcane caster simply can't deal with that many clerics.

(and an evil sorcerer would never get near the king legitimately, as the paladins will surely detect evil at some point. He can't have undetectable alignment up ALL The time...)

[Forrestfire]

Why take over at all? Present your services to the king as the only mage who could work for him. He'd be a fool to not at least put you in a position of favor, even if he keeps you somewhere other than his castle to guard against possible enchantment.

Course, if you're evil, the paladins might get you first, but it is still in the king's favor to have the only arcane caster in his employ.

If you're lucky, you get a job and are set for life. If you're more lucky, you get a chance to dominate the king and have him name you his heir after "years of loyal service" that has caused him to "view you as a son" (because his other sons died in mysterious accidents).

Course, if you're unlucky and/or evil, you need to teleport out before the paladins kill you.

[Lord Vukodlak]

The Sorcerer can probably kill the king, but once he does, the Temples will be up his butt and around the corner. In short, the clerics would be functioning as his 'viziers', and a single arcane caster simply can't deal with that many clerics.

(and an evil sorcerer would never get near the king legitimately, as the paladins will surely detect evil at some point. He can't have undetectable alignment up ALL The time...)

That's presuming the temples didn't place a forbiddance or similar magic to block the sorcerer from simply teleporting inside. Invisibility purge traps could handle stealthy assassins.

Simply being the only caster of your kind doesn't equate dominating power. Being four or five levels higher then every other caster in the area equals dominating power.

He can have undetectable alignment up at all times he just needs to get a hold of a ring of mind shielding, cheap item that blocks alignment and thought detection.

[Captnq]

Sorcerer 10?

Aboleth Mucus is 20 gp. Sorcerers are unlikely to waste spells on water breathing. Save or die.

Sleep poison on a log near his fireplace. Wait. Slit his throat.

Seriously. 70,000 people vs one man who has to sleep/drink/eat?

The question is not if he is going to lose, but what the price will be.

[Emperor Tippy]

Sorcerer 10?

Aboleth Mucus is 20 gp. Sorcerers are unlikely to waste spells on water breathing. Save or die.

Sleep poison on a log near his fireplace. Wait. Slit his throat.

Seriously. 70,000 people vs one man who has to sleep/drink/eat?

The question is not if he is going to lose, but what the price will be.

The "man" sleep's/eat's/drink's a thousand miles away and possibly in an underground bunker that can't be accessed except by teleportation. The only time he is out in public in his own appearance (and even that may well be a deception) is when he is deliberately choosing to make a display of some kind.

Assassinating someone with access to 5th level spell casting and any real concern for their personal safety without having magic yourself is virtually impossible to do with any kind of stealth.

[Der_DWSage]

The real stickler here is that there is still magic in the form of Clerics, possibly of high level. Remove those from the picture, and this Sorcerer's domination gets a whole lot easier to picture.

[Angelalex242]

Ring of Mind shielding and angelskin clothes would both serve to hide his alignment, except this is a low magic setting, so the only magic he's likely got to rely on is his own.

[Epsilon Rose]

Ring of Mind shielding and angelskin clothes would both serve to hide his alignment, except this is a low magic setting, so the only magic he's likely got to rely on is his own.

Except, it's not really low magic if there are high level divine casters. He may just have to go to a suitably mercenarial cleric, instead of one of his wizard buddies, for his crafting needs.