Dwarven Arcane Knight! (Critique/check out this build)

[dascarletm]

So, I'm building a character for a gestalt game, and the theme is spellcasting knight. I'll be the dwarf. The GM rolled stats, and I got this:
18, 17, 15, 14, 10, 4.

So, This is what I've decided to build. The game is going from levels 4 to 20.

Stats:
Str: 17 -> 18 @ lvl 4
Dex: 4
Con: 16 -> 18 @ lvl 3
Int: 18 -> 19 @ lvl 12, 20@lvl16, and 21@lvl20
Wis: 15 -> 16 @ lvl 8
Cha: 8

1: Wizard 1//Dwarf Paragon 1
2: Wizard 2//Dwarf Paragon 2
3: Wizard 3//Dwarf Paragon 3
4: Wizard 4//Warblade 1
5: Wizard 5//Warblade 2
6: Runesmith 1//Warblade 3
7: Wizard 6//Deepwarden 1
8: Wizard 7//Deepwarden 2
9: Abjurant Champion 1//Warblade 4
10: Abjurant Champion 2//Warblade 5
11: Runesmith 2//Warblade 6
12: Runesmith 3//Warblade 7
13: Abjurant Champion 3//Warblade 8
14: Abjurant Champion 4//Warblade 9
15: Abjurant Champion 5//Warblade 10
16: Runesmith 4//Warblade 11
17: Runesmith 5//Warblade 12
18: Wizard 8//Warblade 13
19: Wizard 9//Warblade 14
20: Wizard 10//Warblade 15

Feats:
1: Scribe Scroll, Endurance
3: Zen Archery
5: Extend Spell
6: Combat Casting
7: Track
9: Alacritous Cogitation
11: Improved Initiative
12: Power Attack
14: Ironheart Aura
15: Quicken Spell
18: Empower Spell
18: Blade Meditation
20: Persistent Spell

I'm not too sure, but I feel as though my feat selection could be improved.
I think I've covered most everything negative from my Dex dump stat.
What do you all think?

[Zubrowka74]

4 dex ? Nooooooooo. You do not want this!

Unless there's some trick I didi not see.

[dascarletm]

4 dex ? Nooooooooo. You do not want this!

Unless there's some trick I didi not see.

I am gaining int to ref saves, wis to ranged attacks and eventually (level 8) I'll get con to dex instead. Improved initiative at higher levels will help offset the
Penalty. I might look int a hummingbird familiar as well

[fishyfishyfishy]

Seems like a pretty solid build. I personally would not be ok with the DM rolling my stats under any circumstances. But if you feel comfortable going with it and overcoming the challenge of starting with a 4 in anything, more power to you. Gestalt games are kind of swingy. You can have really powerful characters and really weak ones in the same party, more so than a normal game. More advice on your build would be dependent on the rest of the players builds.

[GreenETC]

I am gaining int to ref saves, wis to ranged attacks and eventually (level 8) I'll get con to dex instead. Improved initiative at higher levels will help offset the
Penalty. I might look int a hummingbird familiar as well
You should look into ways to prevent losing Dex as well, since a 0 Dex Wizard is a dead Wizard. There's a reason Shivering Touch is called a dragon-killer, and the lesser version has a 50% chance of incapacitating you. As a 1st level spell.

[dascarletm]

You should look into ways to prevent losing Dex as well, since a 0 Dex Wizard is a dead Wizard. There's a reason Shivering Touch is called a dragon-killer, and the lesser version has a 50% chance of incapacitating you. As a 1st level spell.

I was worried about that. I'm hoping it won't come up until I've found a means to prevent it, but I don't think the DM would throw it at me in the first couple of sessions.

Seems like a pretty solid build. I personally would not be ok with the DM rolling my stats under any circumstances. But if you feel comfortable going with it and overcoming the challenge of starting with a 4 in anything, more power to you. Gestalt games are kind of swingy. You can have really powerful characters and really weak ones in the same party, more so than a normal game. More advice on your build would be dependent on the rest of the players builds.

Yeah, I trust him. We were allowed to roll our own while he watched, but since we were are going to be across the US up until he comes back at the start of the game, I told him to roll for me.

[Red Fel]

What does your role in combat look like? That is, what's your typical strategy?

I usually get a bit wary when I see offensive casting in a gestalt with offensive melee, due to the incompatibility that results from the action economy. Of course, this is a non-issue if you use casting primarily for buffs and Warblade for Strikes, or casting for blasting and Warblade for Counters, but I'm curious to see how you expect this to play.

[Aliek]

Skimmed over the build to check if something struck me out, but...

Is there any reason DEX is your dump stat instead of CHA?

[GreenETC]

I was worried about that. I'm hoping it won't come up until I've found a means to prevent it, but I don't think the DM would throw it at me in the first couple of sessions.
Be wary of poisons, as they're the primary way to do this. You should also be careful as your Touch AC is going to be pretty awful, meaning that an opposing caster (who may have full BaB thanks to gestalt) will easily hit you, and a lot of nasty spells involve attack rolls.

[dascarletm]

What does your role in combat look like? That is, what's your typical strategy?

I usually get a bit wary when I see offensive casting in a gestalt with offensive melee, due to the incompatibility that results from the action economy. Of course, this is a non-issue if you use casting primarily for buffs and Warblade for Strikes, or casting for blasting and Warblade for Counters, but I'm curious to see how you expect this to play.

I originally planned to cast primarily and use my maneuvers for counters, but now I'm thinking I might use my maneuvers primarily and use my spells for buffing/out of combat utility. I'll save a few for BC if we need it.

Until level 6 however, all my spells will be used out of combat or be sans somatic components.


Skimmed over the build to check if something struck me out, but...

Is there any reason DEX is your dump stat instead of CHA?
Well, Originally I was going to go cleric. Once I changed to wizard as my casting side, I debated having 2 cha, but i ended up keeping dex as my dump because of campaign reasons. You see the players are leading knightly orders, and while 8 cha sucks as a leader, I think it is doable. Also I can't look that UGLY. :smalltongue:

I think it might be a fun exercise to see if I can overcome the lack of dex. by level 10 most everything should be covered.


Be wary of poisons, as they're the primary way to do this. You should also be careful as your Touch AC is going to be pretty awful, meaning that an opposing caster (who may have full BaB thanks to gestalt) will easily hit you, and a lot of nasty spells involve attack rolls.

I'll hopefully be able to make the saves, or get immunity (I'll be getting death ward on me, but I don't thing that helps stop poison drain).

Con will be going to touch AC since deepwarden has you replace dex with con.

[Red Fel]

I originally planned to cast primarily and use my maneuvers for counters, but now I'm thinking I might use my maneuvers primarily and use my spells for buffing/out of combat utility. I'll save a few for BC if we need it.

Until level 6 however, all my spells will be used out of combat or be sans somatic components.

Hmm... As long as you're favoring one side for "active," one side for "passive," I think it's got some solid potential.

As for class selection, I'll take one side at a time.

Left side: Wizard: The basis of arcane spellcasting. I like it. Using this as your left side's base, I'd advise you to focus either on buffs and utility, or on combat blasting, but not both. Remember also that you don't have anything that reduces Arcane Spell Failure in your build. That's likely to trip you up.
Runesmith: I have nothing against this class, although it's an odd choice. In particular, you get the "caster in tanky armor without ASF," but it doesn't actually get rid of your ASF or alter your spellcasting substantially; it just gives you a way to trigger spells while in armor without somatic components. Okay, I can see it, I guess, but this is basically a class designed for combat casting.
Abjurant Champion: This is clearly a combat casting class. Swift abjuration? Caster level equal to BAB? Beautiful stuff. But this means that you are building this to be a combat-blaster on the active side, boosts and counters on the passive. Otherwise, all this raw potential feels like it's wasted.
And the right side:
Dwarf Paragon: Okay, I can see you wanting to be the iconic dwarf. I'll grant you that. Nothing to see here, move along.
Warblade: The meat of the combat-side-burger. I note that heavy armor would be a hindrance to this class, particularly with your impressively-low Dex. Still, an excellent chassis, and I noticed that you smartly took 13 levels of Warblade for the bonus feats. Good.
Deepwarden: This is a good way to shore up your Dex-to-AC deficiency. Awkward for a two-level dip, but it works.
Battlesmith: The Wis-to-damage is nice, I suppose. And it fits Dwarven flavor. I imagine there are probably better dips of a level, but it's not terrible.
Deepstone Sentinel: This is an... Interesting choice for a dip. Again, you've got flavor, and the ability to knock adjacent foes prone is useful. But, like Battlesmith, it feels a bit like you just threw this in to say, "Look, a dwarf!" Unless I'm missing something.
So, overall?

Your left side is full of solid blasting classes (plus Runesmith), but you still run afoul of Arcane Spell Failure. Your right side has good flavor, but some unusual class choices. Wearing heavy armor seems ill-advised, both because of your already-nonexistent Dex and because of ASF. Medium Armor isn't much better, unless you go with Twilight + Mithral. The build seems fairly good at "Watch me sling spells, and if something comes near me, watch me knock them prone or counter so they can't stay near me." But parts of it feel a bit patchwork. I feel like I'm missing your reasons for some choices, like Runesmith, Deepstone Sentinel and Battlesmith.

[dascarletm]

This was a very apt analysis, and actually quite enjoyable.


Hmm... As long as you're favoring one side for "active," one side for "passive," I think it's got some solid potential.

I'm still unsure on how I'm going to end up playing him. The two other players are: a Duskblade//Knight, and a Druid or Cleric//Paladin
I assume there will be lots of melee potential right there. I'm wondering if I should join them in the fray or stay back and buff/BC/Blast. I think i've made myself sort of a switch hitter, but I don't want to end up sucking at both.



Left side: Wizard: The basis of arcane spellcasting. I like it. Using this as your left side's base, I'd advise you to focus either on buffs and utility, or on combat blasting, but not both. Remember also that you don't have anything that reduces Arcane Spell Failure in your build. That's likely to trip you up.
Hopefully once I hit RS levels, I'll never need to prepare spells the regular way ever again.


Runesmith: I have nothing against this class, although it's an odd choice. In particular, you get the "caster in tanky armor without ASF," but it doesn't actually get rid of your ASF or alter your spellcasting substantially; it just gives you a way to trigger spells while in armor without somatic components. Okay, I can see it, I guess, but this is basically a class designed for combat casting.
I don't see where ASF would mess me up if I basically get still spell for free for every spell. I mean, activating wands and scrolls might be hindered, but besides that I don't see where this can bite me.


Abjurant Champion: This is clearly a combat casting class. Swift abjuration? Caster level equal to BAB? Beautiful stuff. But this means that you are building this to be a combat-blaster on the active side, boosts and counters on the passive. Otherwise, all this raw potential feels like it's wasted.

Would not the other way around benefit as well. Enhanced armor is a nice little passive, the swift abjuration lets me buff while dishing out warblade pain, and well since I've got full casting and BaB the last little bit doesn't matter.


And the right side:
Dwarf Paragon: Okay, I can see you wanting to be the iconic dwarf. I'll grant you that. Nothing to see here, move along.
Warblade: The meat of the combat-side-burger. I note that heavy armor would be a hindrance to this class, particularly with your impressively-low Dex. Still, an excellent chassis, and I noticed that you smartly took 13 levels of Warblade for the bonus feats. Good.

Does heavy armor actually stop the warblade from doing anything? I know they don't get proficiency, but does it stop their abilities or their maneuvers in any way?


Deepwarden: This is a good way to shore up your Dex-to-AC deficiency. Awkward for a two-level dip, but it works.

Yeah as you pointed out I only took this to get con instead of dex.


Battlesmith: The Wis-to-damage is nice, I suppose. And it fits Dwarven flavor. I imagine there are probably better dips of a level, but it's not terrible.

I felt like this was where I was running out of ideas. I had this from back before I switched from clerical casting, and would of liked the wis to damage. Otherwise, I wonder if this build would be better off without it. It sure would save me a lot of skill points.


Deepstone Sentinel: This is an... Interesting choice for a dip. Again, you've got flavor, and the ability to knock adjacent foes prone is useful. But, like Battlesmith, it feels a bit like you just threw this in to say, "Look, a dwarf!" Unless I'm missing something.

I only picked this so I could get another maneuver at level 20. Another level of warblade nets me nothing, and I'm unsure what else to take. I'm really at a lost, and thew this in because, you guessed it, it was really dwarfy.


So, overall?

Your left side is full of solid blasting classes (plus Runesmith), but you still run afoul of Arcane Spell Failure. Your right side has good flavor, but some unusual class choices. Wearing heavy armor seems ill-advised, both because of your already-nonexistent Dex and because of ASF. Medium Armor isn't much better, unless you go with Twilight + Mithral. The build seems fairly good at "Watch me sling spells, and if something comes near me, watch me knock them prone or counter so they can't stay near me." But parts of it feel a bit patchwork. I feel like I'm missing your reasons for some choices, like Runesmith, Deepstone Sentinel and Battlesmith.
It is really patchwork, it could use some tuning. Runesmith, has some nice abilities, like the capstone, and I'll definitely be prepping all my spells as rune magic, thus making ASF a non-issue. Deepstone sentinel and battlesmith are begging to be replaced with something better, and I wonder if 2 more warblade levels would be better overall.

Thanks for your input everyone by the way, it has helped a great deal.

[Red Fel]

This was a very apt analysis, and actually quite enjoyable.

I'm still unsure on how I'm going to end up playing him. The two other players are: a Duskblade//Knight, and a Druid or Cleric//Paladin
I assume there will be lots of melee potential right there. I'm wondering if I should join them in the fray or stay back and buff/BC/Blast. I think i've made myself sort of a switch hitter, but I don't want to end up sucking at both.

I think the build has a lot of potential. I do think it's got some flexibility. But I think your left side is more clearly designed around casting in battle. There is no reason, for example, to use Rune Magic casting, except to avoid ASF.


Hopefully once I hit RS levels, I'll never need to prepare spells the regular way ever again.

I don't see where ASF would mess me up if I basically get still spell for free for every spell. I mean, activating wands and scrolls might be hindered, but besides that I don't see where this can bite me.

You're right. I misread the class, my mistake. Yeah, Rune Magic basically lets you replace regular spellcasting with Rune spellcasting, which obviates ASF altogether. You can use the heavy armor if you want to, you won't have to deal with ASF.

That said, there's really no need to go Runesmith if the majority of your casting is out-of-combat, such as buffing; the key advantages to Runesmith are the elimination of somatic components and the elimination of ASF.


Would not the other way around benefit as well. Enhanced armor is a nice little passive, the swift abjuration lets me buff while dishing out warblade pain, and well since I've got full casting and BaB the last little bit doesn't matter.

The thing to remember about Swift Abjuration is that it's a swift action, which means it would replace your Boost or Counter for that round. This isn't a problem if you focus on Strikes, but it's something to keep in mind. If you're combat casting, this is truly fantastic - it means you can use a swift action Abjuration (such as Dispel Magic) to obliterate enemy defenses, and follow it immediately with a standard action spell (such as Magic Missile).

It provides an interesting and useful boost if you're using your magic-side as a passive bump (for example, using Dispel Magic to get rid of an enemy's protective spell, then beating on them with a Strike). However, it means that the rest of your spellcasting (including Rune Magic) is basically reserved for out of combat. Again, with the right combination of classes, it can work. Looking back over it, I can see it; out of combat buffs, in-combat swift Rune-based Abjurations followed by physical abuse. I can see it.


Does heavy armor actually stop the warblade from doing anything? I know they don't get proficiency, but does it stop their abilities or their maneuvers in any way?

Not technically. Frankly, you have a good point - you're already going to be crippled Dex-wise, why not embrace it?

I just like to pretend, you know? And anyway, you could always buff yourself with Cat's Grace and have a happy.

As an aside, I realize that you could take Selective Spell, and slap it on Antimagic Field (which would be Extended and Quickened by Ab Champ) and just straight-up murder some casters.

Let's move on.


Yeah as you pointed out I only took this to get con instead of dex. Which was a smart idea.


I felt like this was where I was running out of ideas. I had this from back before I switched from clerical casting, and would of liked the wis to damage. Otherwise, I wonder if this build would be better off without it. It sure would save me a lot of skill points.

I gotcha. Well, you do what you want to do, you know? And it gets the flavor you want, anyway.


I only picked this so I could get another maneuver at level 20. Another level of warblade nets me nothing, and I'm unsure what else to take. I'm really at a lost, and thew this in because, you guessed it, it was really dwarfy.

It is really patchwork, it could use some tuning. Runesmith, has some nice abilities, like the capstone, and I'll definitely be prepping all my spells as rune magic, thus making ASF a non-issue. Deepstone sentinel and battlesmith are begging to be replaced with something better, and I wonder if 2 more warblade levels would be better overall. Actually, this was a really good idea. Because, more to the point, it means you have access to level 9 maneuvers, just barely.

Admittedly, if you had swapped out Deepstone and Battlesmith for two more Warblade levels, you wouldn't have gotten as many class features. You would have gotten level 9 maneuver at 20, and you would have been able to trade out a maneuver at 19 (Warblade 14). But yeah, it's a bit of a toss-up.


Thanks for your input everyone by the way, it has helped a great deal.

A pleasure.

One last thing before we go: Let's look at feat selection.

You've got a lot of metamagic on that list. That's fine. I also see some prereq stuff, I understand that. Please explain to me, however, several selections.

Zen Archery: I assume this is to get around your utter lack of Dex when making ranged touch attacks?

White Raven Defense: Do you plan to spend a lot of time in a White Raven Stance? Also, I get that, since you use a Warhammer, the bonus to allies applies, but it only applies to adjacent allies. Are you going to be adjacent to allies that often?

Unnerving Calm: ... Seriously? This is basically just a +1 on attack rolls against one opponent, because nobody will face you in a duel of wills, because that mechanic is just... Ugh. Swap this out for Selective Spell, and have a happy.

[dascarletm]

A pleasure.

One last thing before we go: Let's look at feat selection.

You've got a lot of metamagic on that list. That's fine. I also see some prereq stuff, I understand that. Please explain to me, however, several selections.

Zen Archery: I assume this is to get around your utter lack of Dex when making ranged touch attacks?

White Raven Defense: Do you plan to spend a lot of time in a White Raven Stance? Also, I get that, since you use a Warhammer, the bonus to allies applies, but it only applies to adjacent allies. Are you going to be adjacent to allies that often?

Unnerving Calm: ... Seriously? This is basically just a +1 on attack rolls against one opponent, because nobody will face you in a duel of wills, because that mechanic is just... Ugh. Swap this out for Selective Spell, and have a happy.

Zen Archery: Yes. Exactly.

White Raven Defense: This needs to be swapped for something better, I'm still thinking.

Unnerving Calm: I really should have just said ???? because I didn't know what to do with this feat. Thanks for the advice though. However they need to be from the warblade list.

I think I'll drop battlesmith and Deepstone sentinel. 2 9th level maneuvers is better than 1 stone dragon.

[Red Fel]

Zen Archery: Yes. Exactly.

White Raven Defense: This needs to be swapped for something better, I'm still thinking.

Unnerving Calm: I really should have just said ???? because I didn't know what to do with this feat. Thanks for the advice though. However they need to be from the warblade list.

I think I'll drop battlesmith and Deepstone sentinel. 2 9th level maneuvers is better than 1 stone dragon.

I'm not sure you're getting two 9th-level maneuvers, actually, unless I did my math wrong.

But in any event, let's take a look at those Warblade feats.

You should really only take one school-related feat, since you'll only be in one stance at a time. Ironheart Aura is a popular one, since Punishing Stance is a solid use of your iterative attacks. If you're going melee primary/caster secondary, that extra 1d6 on each hit can add up, and if you're bulking up on heavy armor, the AC penalty is almost meaningless. And Ironheart Aura's bonus to saves is just sweet. Dancing Blade Form is another useful Iron Heart stance, which adds reach on your turn; again, it's more offensive than passive.

If, on the other hand, you're going with your melee side as your passives, you'll want a stance providing a passive bonus. Hunter's Sense (for scent) or Hearing the Air (for blindsense) are both nice, but since neither feat (Tiger Blooded, Unnerving Calm) helps you, let's ignore those. Similarly, there's no sense in the Stone Dragon feat (Stone Power), since you already have Power Attack and the Stone Dragon stances universally limit movement to an absurd degree. Supreme Blade Parry is an excellent choice for a passive defense, if you're able to take a level 8 stance, and it gives us reason to take Ironheart Aura.

The White Raven stances are generally only of use if you have many meleers in your party, Bolstering Voice being the exception. But then again, if you do go with Bolstering Voice, your party takes a huge boost to Will saves, and you have reason to take White Raven Defense, which gives you that bonus warhammer synergy.

Basically, depending on whether you plan to use Iron Heart stances or White Raven stances, I would take the corresponding feat; the others don't impress me much.

As for the other feat, it's really a bit of a toss-up. I suppose you could take Blade Meditation, treating it as a Weapon Focus-style feat, or slap it on a discipline whose skill you use often. Since you're combat casting, you're probably making Concentration checks; Blade Meditation (Diamond Mind) gives you a +2 bonus to those checks.