Another *sigh* Elemental Debate

[CyberThread]

So I know water is relaxed, healing, but fierce.

Fire burning , passion , but eats everything.

Earth Loyal, steady, but stern and unyielding.

Air Flighty , carefree, but thunderous and angry.




but you know, I think everyone has the tiers wrong for the elements, and you know, I think fire gets a bad rap, while earth is overpraised.

Yes I understand allot of things are immune to fire, but it keeps us warm when we need to sleep, and the wizard needs to regain spells. It keeps the light on our torches, and kill those icky swarms. I don't think fire is tier 5, but I would say fire is tier 3 or maybe 4. It does have uses.


While earth, I understand everyone needs to walk on it, and it gives us a place to live, all it does it sit their. Sure you can get a earth elemental to help guard and they are beefy, but I mean really. Earth does nothing but let itself get trampled on, it should go from tier 2, back to tier 3 or even 4.


Sonic, for all its wonders, is just to loud, no matter how much I slam my broom against the roof of my magical apartment, the kids upstairs won't turn it down. I think it is overrated noise maker not deserving tier 1.




The part, I think most the upsets me, that everyone things water is good and carefree, while fire is EVIL and MEAN. This just isn't true, just yesterday my Dm had a evil water elemental attack me, and my charmander elemental died for me, so we coudl run away. I feel bad that the water elemental took out its tail.



Well I had my rant, am sorry if I might have over done it.

[ddude987]

Thank you for posting your rant. I always thought fire to be more useful than tier 5, mainly just because I think fire is cool. Seems like your pulling from some abstract reasons for tiers but hey its new thoughts and that's what I found interesting. +1 :smallbiggrin:

[TuggyNE]

The thing you're neglecting about earth, though, is that it has acid in it. And acid is super-great. For example, it shuts off regeneration for most things that have it, even war trolls, it's not halved against objects, and it makes that awesome bubbling effect!

Acid is the new fire.

[Jergmo]

I've come to envision Sonic damage as kind of... causing vibrations on such a frequency that it destabilizes your atoms and causes damage on the molecular level.

When you look at it that way, it's a terrifying damage type.

[OldTrees1]

Huh? Is it a class being discussed, existing spell selections or potential mechanics resulting from the various elemental themes?

[JHShadon]

I've come to envision Sonic damage as kind of... causing vibrations on such a frequency that it destabilizes your atoms and causes damage on the molecular level.

When you look at it that way, it's a terrifying damage type.

That sounds awesome.


Huh? Is it a class being discussed, existing spell selections or potential mechanics resulting from the various elemental themes?

I think this is some kind of joke, I'm not sure about what the name would be since I didn't put any points into Knowledge(Comedy).

[Crake]

Huh? Is it a class being discussed, existing spell selections or potential mechanics resulting from the various elemental themes?

It's CyberDrag pumping up his postcount by posting more pointless threads

[Deophaun]

I think the designers just didn't put much thought into balance between elements. On one hand, you have things like carbon and hydrogen. Carbon, of course, is the basis of life, which is OP as it is. But then they decided that it should also create the strongest materials known. And they couldn't leave well enough alone with diamond. They had to give us nanotubes and graphene in the supplementals. (Of course you can make an aerogel out of it. The moral of the story being, if you find a nonsensical material, carbon did it!) And hydrogen, well, it creates fricken stars! 'Nuff said.

Meanwhile, you've got underutilized elements like yttrium, whose spelling I can only attribute to a typo. Such is the lack of support for this one that they couldn't even bother editing out the extraneous "t." Get a bunch of carbon together and you can have yourself a nice BBQ or build a space elevator. Get a bunch of yttrium together and you've got nothing unless you also have some other tier-4/5 elements around like gadolinium. It's a support element, pure and simple. And really, if you want a support element, you should just go with oxygen and never look back.

[Rhatahema]

I just think it's lame that the revision cut heart. That just destroyed the dynamics of the Inner Planes.

[ben-zayb]

Meanwhile, you've got underutilized elements like yttrium, whose spelling I can only attribute to a typo. Such is the lack of support for this one that they couldn't even bother editing out the extraneous "t." Get a bunch of carbon together and you can have yourself a nice BBQ or build a space elevator. Get a bunch of yttrium together and you've got nothing unless you also have some other tier-4/5 elements around like gadolinium. It's a support element, pure and simple. And really, if you want a support element, you should just go with oxygen and never look back.

Well, the problem is that it came at a later edition, and is more of a supplementary material, so it doesn't get that much support. Maybe I can homebrew an Yttrium-themed race and base class...:smallbiggrin:

[Kane0]

"Water is cool and soothing. Earth is steady and stable. But fire... Fire is alive. It breathes, it grows"

Unfortunately, I cannot find a quote about other elements from the same source. Shame, he would have made a fine scholar...

[eggynack]

Unfortunately, I cannot find a quote about other elements from the same source. Shame, he would have made a fine scholar...
I prefer Iroh's speech from Bitter Work. That was some amazing stuff.

[Vizzerdrix]

Yttrium katanas for all!

[Ruethgar]

Mongoose publishing had a bit in the quintessential cleric about fire as a healing a purifying force more akin to the red dragonflight of Warcraft. It wasn't much, but I liked that alternate take on it.

[BWR]

I think the whole fire healing thing was done in Dark Sun too. I seem to remember the Prism Pentad having a Fire priest healing someone.

I like L5R's take on the elements.
Water is the element of healing, but also of speed, active strength and perception. It moves fast, flows around obstacles and can overpower anything. It is about perceiving the world around you. Combat, especially mass combat, is all about water, the ability to move across the battlefield, form most effectively and wash away the opposition.

Fire is the element of destruction and heat, but also intelligence, creativity and inspiration. Crafting, creation, understanding and innovation are all tied to fire.

Earth is not only endurance and passive strength but purity. Resisting corrupting influences, be it disease, mind affecting effects, Taint or other supernatural elements. It is also physical agility, manipulating accurately and quickly.

Air is reactive movement, avoiding being hit, but also your ability to understand and influence other living beings. Secrets, performance skills, interpersonal skills, binding the world together; these are all aspects of air. There may be areas without earth, without fire or without water but air is everywhere.

[ben-zayb]

Well if you put it that way... healing can be done by any elements by virtue of fluff
Fire: keeps the "fire" in the soul burning, ala Devoted Spirit healing via conviction/passion
Earth: some gaia stuff, life being molded from the earth itself
Water: fountain of life stuff
Air: breath of life

See what I mean? :smalltongue:

[Brookshw]

It's CyberDrag pumping up his postcount by posting more pointless threads

That or making a joke about the alignment thread :smalltongue:

[ben-zayb]

That or making a joke about the alignment thread :smalltongue:

You meant Tier threads right? That or Visigani's "dragons are the material plane's elementals" thread.

[Brookshw]

You meant Tier threads right? That or Visigani's "dragons are the material plane's elementals" thread.

No, I meant this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311916)

[CyberThread]

That or making a joke about the alignment thread :smalltongue:


that and...post count isn't really displayed meaning, it doesn't matter.


Next theory please...