What makes warmind good?

[CyberThread]

Just overall, as far as the prc goes, what makes it good, over taking a psi base class?

[Averis Vol]

Sweeping blows tends to be why I choose it. hitting an extra target on a bruiser just means combat ends faster. It also progresses psionics, so with a psi warrior base it's really solid, especially with full BaB.

[Feralventas]

Does it advance psionics? I thought it was like Seul Archanamach or Fist of Zuoken, having a power list and system unto itself.

[Person_Man]

It provides Psychic Warrior psionic powers that scale fairly well. If you take Practice Manifester, then Whatever 5/War Mind X will have access to very similar powers as a Psychic Warrior X+5, though the latter will have more powers, power points, and bonus feats.

Sweeping Strike can be used for all sorts of combos (which are used in some fairly well known builds). In particular, Expansion + Knockback + Shock Trooper + Improved Trip allows you to Attack/Bull Rush/Trip/Follow Up Attack multiple enemies within your considerable reach, multiplied by the number of attacks you have.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Does it advance psionics? I thought it was like Seul Archanamach or Fist of Zuoken, having a power list and system unto itself.

Pathfinder's version (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/war-mind) does allows to advance Psychic Warrior's manifesting, but only Psychic warrior.

3.5's Version (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) doesn't.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

You can get a +20 BAB with it. For example, Crusader 4/ Sanctified Mind 1/ Warmind 10/ Sanctified Mind 5 gets a manifester level of 19 with Practiced Manifester, and the only feat you spend is on Hidden Talent if you can get Iron Will from the Otyugh Hole.

[IronFist]

Sweeping Strike is sweet.
The class even gives you other useful (if boring) class features.
But really, it's all about Sweeping Strike.

EDIT: just noticed you can mix Vital Strike and Sweeping Strike. If only you could move normally...

[CyberThread]

Wonder if a sweeping strke counts as some sort of, special thing or just an affect to a normal attack. Would be nice to use a maneuver with it.


Make a maneuver hit multiple targets. Suddenly your crusader becomes an AOE machine

[Callin]

I have always wanted to go Warblade 5/Warmind 10/War Hulk 5.

[CyberThread]

Warblade 5/ Warmind 5/ Bloodstorm blade 5


Throw as a "melee" action, everything gets attacked once with the whirling blade, then take into account your sweeping strike, do it all over again, with things in range of you.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I have always wanted to go Warblade 5/Warmind 10/War Hulk 5.

Warhulk 1 automatically disqualifies you from Warmind, and you'll lose all its class features if you no longer meet its prerequisites.

[Callin]

Warhulk 1 automatically disqualifies you from Warmind, and you'll lose all its class features if you no longer meet its prerequisites.

Really it depends on how you interpret the War Hulk.

You are considered to have 0 ranks in the skills. But you still retain the ranks spent. So you still have the ranks required but they are also considered to be 0 for your total modifier and if the skill is untrained or not.

That is my interpretation.

(Your interpretation is dependent on what rules you are using for PrC Pre Reqs. Some say you lose the abilities some just say you cant advance the PrC anymore.)

[CyberThread]

not going to dive into war hulk, but would making the casting charisma based, be unfair?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Really it depends on how you interpret the War Hulk.

You are considered to have 0 ranks in the skills. But you still retain the ranks spent. So you still have the ranks required but they are also considered to be 0 for your total modifier and if the skill is untrained or not.

That is my interpretation.

(Your interpretation is dependent on what rules you are using for PrC Pre Reqs. Some say you lose the abilities some just say you cant advance the PrC anymore.)

"No Time to Think (Ex): A character with levels in the war
hulk prestige class is considered to have 0 ranks in all Intelligence-,
Wisdom-, and Charisma-based skills (whether or not
he has bought ranks in them previously). The only exception is
the Intimidate skill, which works normally."

War Mind requires Knowledge (history) 2 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 8 ranks. If you spend four skill points on Kn: History, you get 4 ranks if it's a class skill, or 2 ranks if it's cross-class, or 0 ranks if you have No Time to Think. If you'd already spent skill points for ranks in it, No Time to Think will reset it to 0 ranks.

[Averis Vol]

not going to dive into war hulk, but would making the casting charisma based, be unfair?

kind of. None of the psionic classes (I think) manifest off of charisma, so I don't think it would make any sense whatsoever.

[Kuulvheysoon]

kind of. None of the psionic classes (I think) manifest off of charisma, so I don't think it would make any sense whatsoever.

Wilder says hello.:smalltongue:

[CyberThread]

what is a ...w-..i---l...d.... Is that the thing we scrapped on the publisher floor, becuase we didn't have any good ideas on how to organize it?

[Callin]

"No Time to Think (Ex): A character with levels in the war
hulk prestige class is considered to have 0 ranks in all Intelligence-,
Wisdom-, and Charisma-based skills (whether or not
he has bought ranks in them previously). The only exception is
the Intimidate skill, which works normally."

War Mind requires Knowledge (history) 2 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 8 ranks. If you spend four skill points on Kn: History, you get 4 ranks if it's a class skill, or 2 ranks if it's cross-class, or 0 ranks if you have No Time to Think. If you'd already spent skill points for ranks in it, No Time to Think will reset it to 0 ranks.

Not to derail the thread so this is the last Im gonna post on it. It does not reset your ranks. It just considers you to have 0 ranks in them. It does NOT get rid of what you have there. I was paraphrasing the ability in my first post. Yes I read and re read the whole thing many times. Over the course of years. I will always find the most beneficial interpretation as the rules tell me to. So I will focus on CONSIDERS (and man is the definition horrible for this lol.)- to come to judge or classify. Best guess definition of Consider for this instance. So it judges or classifies you as having 0 ranks in those skills. Yep best definition for this. No where does it say it resets it. So yes you still have those ranks.

But yes I can see the other argument.

[OldTrees1]

I have always wanted to go Warblade 5/Warmind 10/War Hulk 5.

Why would a Warmind go WarHulk or vice versa?
The sweeping blows abilities from the two classes do not stack. WarHulk gets a better version at a lower ECL.


Sidenote:
I think their are two schools of thought on interpretations. Those that assume the most powerful interpretation and those that assume the most restrictive interpretation.

[TuggyNE]

Sidenote:
I think their are two schools of thought on interpretations. Those that assume the most powerful interpretation and those that assume the most restrictive interpretation.

There's far more than just those; there's also looking for maximum consistency in the rest of the rules, reading the way that would make the most sense if the reader were the author, and so on.

[OldTrees1]

There's far more than just those; there's also looking for maximum consistency in the rest of the rules, reading the way that would make the most sense if the reader were the author, and so on.

I see those as responsible filters. Even after applying those there remain contradicting valid interpretations.

[Emperor Tippy]

Warhulk 1 automatically disqualifies you from Warmind, and you'll lose all its class features if you no longer meet its prerequisites.
That isn't true at all. You only need to meet the prerequisites for most PrC's when you take the first level of the PrC, after that they become totally irrelevant for most PrC's (including Warmind).

There are some books that are exceptions, Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane being the big one, but those are just that, exceptions, and they only apply to prestige classes in those books.

[CyberThread]

Can we get back to warmind,rules reading, is another thread topic.

[avr]

For those who follow the prereq rule blindly, I have two words for you: Dragon Disciple. Or, in detail:


Requirements
To qualify to become a dragon disciple, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Race
Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon).

...

Dragon Apotheosis
At 10th level, a dragon disciple takes on the half-dragon template.

[avr]

On the warmind, another useful point is that it gets insight bonuses to strength and constitution. i.e., bonuses which stack with anything.

[Psyren]

One of the nice things about Sweeping Strikes is that you can combine it with ToB maneuvers.

But I prefer the PF version honestly which has the option of giving you 10/10 Psywar progression in place of its own self-contained one. This lets you get the War Mind benefits but with full ML and lots more PP.

[Jeff the Green]

Warhulk 1 automatically disqualifies you from Warmind, and you'll lose all its class features if you no longer meet its prerequisites.

A) That may only apply to CW prestige classes, which warmind isn't.
B) If it applies to all of them, the effect can be avoided by using expansion to qualify for war hulk. You only get the warhulk's features when you're large and so as long as you're medium you can use your normal ranks.

Incidentally, the second one is my favorite trick ever. Halfling Factotum 3/Stoneblessed 3/Goliath barbarian 1/War hulk 9/Factotum +4 (7). You go from small to large when you rage and suddenly gain the war hulk's class features, and when it ends and you shrink back to small you can use your mental skills normally (including Knowledge Devotion).

[manyslayer]

But I prefer the PF version honestly which has the option of giving you 10/10 Psywar progression in place of its own self-contained one. This lets you get the War Mind benefits but with full ML and lots more PP.

Am I missing where it says this because it seems to be the same as the SRD version to me.

d20PFSRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/war-mind)
SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm)

[Psyren]

Am I missing where it says this because it seems to be the same as the SRD version to me.

d20PFSRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/war-mind)
SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm)

What you missed was the Warrior's Journey (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/war-mind#TOC-Warrior-s-Journey-Ex-) ability that only the PF War Mind gets.

[manyslayer]

What you missed was the Warrior's Journey (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/psionic-prestige-classes/war-mind#TOC-Warrior-s-Journey-Ex-) ability that only the PF War Mind gets.

Thanks muchly. I hate when things like that are put separate from the powers known, spells known, etc. section.

[Psyren]

It's really good because, for Psywars only, it becomes a 10/10 manifesting class with full BAB, and good class features on top of that. It blows Slayer out of the water for them.