Crusader Maneuvers Readied Clarification

[Dr. Cliché]

Hi,

From the Crusader 'Maneuver's Readied' section:

"...If, at the end of your turn, you cannot be granted a maneuver because you have no withheld maneuvers remaining, you recover all expended maneuvers, and a new pair of readied maneuvers is granted to you. Randomly determine which of your maneuvers are granted and which are withheld..."

Am I right in thinking that, when the above occurs, you keep all your granted maneuvers that you haven't yet expended?

[Gwendol]

No, it means you start over.

[FullStop]

No, it means you start over.

I don't agree with you on RAW. It specifically says "expended" maneuvers, where maneuvers you have readied that are available to you are "granted", but not "expended" yet. Though this'd mean you can sit around with all your maneuvers granted, never use them, and always have all of them available and the text about being granted new ones from the ready pool is a little clunky.

If I were going to rule on it as a DM I'd definitely interpret the rules the same way you have, though.

[lytokk]

So, by this, a crusader will almost always have a maneuver ready for use? If you've expended all 5 of your moves, the process starts over and you just get 2 new ones at random?

[Red Fel]

So, by this, a crusader will almost always have a maneuver ready for use? If you've expended all 5 of your moves, the process starts over and you just get 2 new ones at random?

Precisely. It's the positive side of Crusader's maneuver recovery - it's automatic. When you run out, you automatically have more, so you always have maneuvers on hand. It's part of the Idiot Savant Crusader build concept - with fewer maneuvers known than granted, you always have the exact same maneuvers available at all times.

The negative side, of course, is that unlike a Warblade or Swordsage, who have access to all readied maneuvers but must recover them, a Crusader gets his granted randomly.

[ddude987]

No, it means you start over.

No, it doesn't. The rules are pretty clear that all of your expended maneuvers go into the pool of maneuvers you pull from randomly every turn. If you were to start over then you would lose access to all readied maneuvers and gain 2 randomly selected maneuvers as readied.

[Stegyre]

No, it doesn't. The rules are pretty clear that all of your expended maneuvers go into the pool of maneuvers you pull from randomly every turn. If you were to start over then you would lose access to all readied maneuvers and gain 2 randomly selected maneuvers as readied.
No, I think you are confusing "readied" maneuvers with "granted" maneuvers.

Unlike other initiators, a Crusader is not able to use all of his "readied" maneuvers; he may only use those that have been "granted," starting with 2 (for 1st level Crusaders) and increasing by 1 each round, until all "readied" maneuvers have been granted.

If a Crusader uses one of those granted maneuvers, it is "expended." It is still (technically) a "granted" maneuver, but as it is no longer "readied," it cannot be used.

At the start of a turn in which there is no longer a "readied" maneuver to be "granted," the process starts over from the beginning:

(a) All the maneuvers (even the "expended" ones) become "readied" again;

(b) All the maneuvers go back into the not-yet-granted pool;

(c) Two (or whatever – depending on Crusader level and the Extra Granted Maneuver feat) are drawn from the pool as the "granted" maneuvers for that turn, available to be used.

(d) Each turn, one more maneuver is granted, etc.

That's how it works, and to my knowledge, there really is not a debate among the veterans.

[SciChronic]

the way i see it, your maneuvers are split into 3 stacks: Readied (your hand), Expended (the discard pile), and Draw (the deck).

At the start of combat, all maneuvers are shuffled (assuming card system) and placed in the Draw stack (the deck). Then the top 2 are placed in the ready stack (your hand). every round another maneuver is drawn, and used maneuvers are placed in the expended (discard) pile. When the draw pile is empty, the Readied and and Expended piles are combined, shuffled and form a new draw stack.

[Stegyre]

In terms of the result, I think that is correct. It may be slightly confusing, however, as you use similar terms from ToB but with different meanings.

I would say that in ToB terms, your "deck" are the Crusader's "readied" maneuvers; your "hand" are the "granted" maneuvers; and of course the discard pile are the "expended" maneuvers.