how affective is touch of golden ice?

[CyberThread]

Just how effective is the feat touch of golden ice in everyday combat?

[JaronK]

Due to the low save, after the first few levels it's basically like a critical hit... they'll roll a 1 on the save sometimes, and you get to damage them as a result. It's not huge, but if you're using VoP or something you've got plenty of extra exalted feats to chose from and few good options.

JaronK

[evisiron]

I'm assuming "low-moderate". Since the DC doesn't scale, it loses its oomph after the low levels, but with higher levels come multiple attacks and more chance for a bad fort save roll.

That said, it's a narrower than normal range of potential victims since it only affects things that are both vulnerable to poison and Evil.

I'm using it with my VoP Druid as a poor mans Detect Evil.

...through punching people.

[Talya]

As a consequence of Jaronk's accurate assessment, any time you're playing a class that makes a LOT of melee attacks, it can still be quite effective. Also, if you're in a campaign with a lot of undead, it never becomes obsolete, as most undead have only a +6 fort save with 20 hit dice.

[ArqArturo]

I've never really found it so useful in combat. It's a nice perk, but the save is very tiny.

However, outside of combat, it can be a useful Detect Evil, you just have to shake a lot of hands, be very touchy, and have a very good Sense Motive check :smallbiggrin:. I did that so many times my DM always presented the hidden evil guys with gloves, gauntlets, and various other clothes.

[JaronK]

Note that it gets more effective with save reducers. You could try a sort of redeemed Unseelie Fey creature... Unseelie Fey Unarmed Swordsage/Apostle of Peace/Binder? That would give you the ability to run around in full plate (Sovok) and wear defensive magic items while heavily reducing enemy saves.

JaronK

[Curmudgeon]

How is any character other than a Paladin going to know whether a particular enemy is Evil? With even distribution of alignments, the feat might work 1/3 of the time. That's a pretty weak return on the investment.

[Talya]

How is any character other than a Paladin going to know whether a particular enemy is Evil? With even distribution of alignments, the feat might work 1/3 of the time. That's a pretty weak return on the investment.

Typically, most adventurers don't fight many good creatures, at all. Even neutral threats, while they exist, are somewhat less common. The things that are hostile tend to be evil.

I've got it on a VOP druid I'm currently playing. It has worked almost every time I've resorted to wildshape combat. Also, you don't need to activate it, or take any special action to make it work. You just make the same attacks you were going to make anyway.

(Admittedly, I don't do wildshape combat nearly as often as I thought I would.)

[ArqArturo]

Well, when you have VoP, it comes with the package eventually.

[CyberThread]

Typically, most adventurers don't fight many good creatures, at all. Even neutral threats, while they exist, are somewhat less common. The things that are hostile tend to be evil.




or hungry...so hungry.... I am so .... so very hunnngrrrryyyy

[ArqArturo]

Typically, most adventurers don't fight many good creatures, at all. Even neutral threats, while they exist, are somewhat less common. The things that are hostile tend to be evil.

True enough, but not all evil beings (especially if they're intelligent) tend to be hostile at first. So when your party meets the Dread Emperor (an actual villaine from BoVD), and you have Touch of Golden Ice, shake his hand, or do my approach: Give them a big bear hug, saying "Ah, ye dirty old bastard, been long since I've seen ye, come 'ere and give yer old lad a hug!" :smallamused:.

[JaronK]

Note that this works best along with Enfeebling weapons, also from BoED. If using VoP, you'll want an ally using an Enfeebling Rapier or Kukri or similar to help knock the dex of your opponents down quickly.

JaronK

[Ravens_cry]

As a consequence of Jaronk's accurate assessment, any time you're playing a class that makes a LOT of melee attacks, it can still be quite effective. Also, if you're in a campaign with a lot of undead, it never becomes obsolete, as most undead have only a +6 fort save with 20 hit dice.
Um, undead are immune to fort saves that don't also target objects.

[Karnith]

Um, undead are immune to fort saves that don't also target objects.
Touch of Golden Ice inflicts golden ice on enemies hit with natural weapons. Golden ice is a ravage, which works (or, at least, is intended to work) on evil undead.

[Talya]

Yeah, specific rules trump general ones. Touch of Golden Ice not only works on Evil undead, it actually does extra damage to them.

[Ravens_cry]

Yeah, specific rules trump general ones. Touch of Golden Ice not only works on Evil undead, it actually does extra damage to them.

Ah. In that case, go forth and prosper. Luckily, undead are a pretty common foe.

[Angelalex242]

Pity it doesn't scale. Given the intended user, I'd say something like the save should be 10+1/2 HD+wis mod...

Would that be a fair fix?

[JaronK]

Honestly, you can already do a good job hitting with it just by spamming attacks. If it was hard to save against, it would be too good.

JaronK

[stack]

Its fun on a wildshape ranger/MoMF with frozen wildshape. 12-headed cryohydras give lots of chances to fail saves.:smallbiggrin:

[Talya]

Its fun on a wildshape ranger/MoMF with frozen wildshape. 12-headed cryohydras give lots of chances to fail saves.:smallbiggrin:

I recall MoMF not needing frozen wildshape to do 12-headed cryohydras.

As for the damage total of Golden Ice...

My VoP druid (level 8) is using Rich Burlew's Fey Druid homebrew variant published here. (Although it IS being treated as a variant instead of a feat), so charisma is her casting stat. She also is a lesser aasimar with the spark template, and put her first VOP bonus into charisma.

Golden Ice is currently 1d6+8 dex damage per fort save (14) failure against undead. It's a PBP game and she's currently in Deinonychus form pouncing on countless unending hordes of ghasts with +1 fort saves.

[Piggy Knowles]

I like it alongside Stormguard Warrior - make a bunch of touch attacks, charging up combat rhythm and hopefully hosing the crap out of someone's Dex. I considered it alongside my Warblade/Totemist Stormguard/Robilar's beastie, but ended up dropping it because I didn't want to deal with the hassle of being exalted...

[Pickford]

ArqArturo:

True enough, but not all evil beings (especially if they're intelligent) tend to be hostile at first. So when your party meets the Dread Emperor (an actual villaine from BoVD), and you have Touch of Golden Ice, shake his hand, or do my approach: Give them a big bear hug, saying "Ah, ye dirty old bastard, been long since I've seen ye, come 'ere and give yer old lad a hug!"

Doesn't he have text indicating such an approach from a stranger would likely result in his immediately attempting to terminate you (and possibly everyone in a city-block radius)?

[stack]

I recall MoMF not needing frozen wildshape to do 12-headed cryohydras.


You're right, I think you just need the feat for the breath weapon since you can turn into magic beasts anyhow. Don't recall what level you get huge shapes, have to look it up.