[3.5] Optimizing the Blowgun

[Kevingway]

In the DMG, there's a ranged weapon with Asian flavor, the Blowgun, that does exactly one damage. I can think of a few ways to make this semi-useful--poisons and sneak attacks, I suppose--but overall, it really seems hard to make this viable. Obviously it isn't the greatest weapon ever and can be replaced with just about anything, but how would you go about optimizing such a weapon?

[Mr Adventurer]

A Large one would do 1d2 damage and so be viable for that Crusader infinite damage trick?

[Darrin]

Obviously it isn't the greatest weapon ever and can be replaced with just about anything, but how would you go about optimizing such a weapon?

Well, if enchanting the darts costs the same as shuriken or other ammo... Spell-Storing Explosive Caustic Shock Raptor darts with Fell Drain sonic snap.

[TuggyNE]

In the DMG, there's a ranged weapon with Asian flavor, the Blowgun, that does exactly one damage. I can think of a few ways to make this semi-useful--poisons and sneak attacks, I suppose--but overall, it really seems hard to make this viable. Obviously it isn't the greatest weapon ever and can be replaced with just about anything, but how would you go about optimizing such a weapon?

Asian flavor? :smallconfused: Am I just imagining the South American miniature blowgun I have on the counter?

Anyway, dubious flavor assumptions aside, Darrin's suggestion of stuffing all kinds of per-hit fixed damage bonuses on it is a good one. I'd add Collision, Splitting if the DM rules it doesn't bust the Raptor, and maybe Psychokinetic.

[Red Rubber Band]

Asian flavor? :smallconfused: Am I just imagining the South American miniature blowgun I have on the counter?

Those drugs. Can I has?

[Callin]

Could not help but think of this. Sorry

Dart Scene (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vci2c8XJkbA)

[JaronK]

1d2 Crusader is definitely the answer.

But if you don't want that, how about using Hidden Talent for endless Poison at level 1?

JaronK

[Scow2]

What's the 1d2 Crusader?

[JaronK]

There's a Crusader stance where if you roll the maximum damage on an attack, you get to roll again and add the new roll to the damage, and keep going as long as you roll the maximum.

Now combine it with the spell where any time you roll a 1, it's treated as rolling a 2.

With a 1d2 damage weapon, you now do infinite damage with every attack.

JaronK

[TuggyNE]

Those drugs. Can I has?

Since I'm not on any, no you cannot has. :smalltongue:

Seriously though, I have a nice little 3' mini-blowgun, and I even recently found some old darts for it. (The hunting ones the tribesmen use are more like 30' long, but are capable of killing small animals just from the hit, with no poison necessarily required.)

We now return you to your scheduled D&D mechanics discussion, already in progress.

[Callin]

Since I'm not on any, no you cannot has. :smalltongue:

Seriously though, I have a nice little 3' mini-blowgun, and I even recently found some old darts for it. (The hunting ones the tribesmen use are more like 30' long, but are capable of killing small animals just from the hit, with no poison necessarily required.)

We now return you to your scheduled D&D mechanics discussion, already in progress.

30 FEET LONG!?!?! :smalleek:

[3Power]

What chapter is this blowgun in? I can't seem to find it and it's not in the SRD.

[Kevingway]

1d2 Crusader is definitely the answer.

But if you don't want that, how about using Hidden Talent for endless Poison at level 1?

JaronK

The poison trick has me intrigued, but I'm getting so many conflicting responses about Hidden Talent + Poison that it's bothering me.

I've been told here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311949) that the poison will go away after the allotted time of Psionic Minor Creation. This would make sense, but at the same time, it would make sense that the poison wouldn't go away due to me poisonmaking it into something slightly different than the summoned plant matter.

So how, exactly, can the poison become infinite? Is it based on interpretation, or is there an underlying trick?


What chapter is this blowgun in? I can't seem to find it and it's not in the SRD.

Page 145 of the DMG. :)

[Forrestfire]

30 FEET LONG!?!?! :smalleek:

I autocorrected for inches in my head and didn't notice until I saw your post and was too busy trying not to spit out my drink XD

[Amphetryon]

The poison trick has me intrigued, but I'm getting so many conflicting responses about Hidden Talent + Poison that it's bothering me.

I've been told here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311949) that the poison will go away after the allotted time of Psionic Minor Creation. This would make sense, but at the same time, it would make sense that the poison wouldn't go away due to me poisonmaking it into something slightly different than the summoned plant matter.

So how, exactly, can the poison become infinite? Is it based on interpretation, or is there an underlying trick?



Page 145 of the DMG. :)

I suspect that "endless" here ("infinite" was not stated) comes from the fact that your Character can make more, every time he has the Power Points to spare. Given that the Power Points are from Hidden Talent and, thus, have no other designated function, they should be available for this function every day.

[Kevingway]

I suspect that "endless" here ("infinite" was not stated) comes from the fact that your Character can make more, every time he has the Power Points to spare. Given that the Power Points are from Hidden Talent and, thus, have no other designated function, they should be available for this function every day.

That's fair. Misquoted in my head, even though I had it right there to look at. D'oh.

[Callin]

I autocorrected for inches in my head and didn't notice until I saw your post and was too busy trying not to spit out my drink XD

I know ya meant inches but I had to do it. lol. I can just imagine an Aztec Warrior loading a 30' dart into a 3' blowgun to shoot a jaguar.

[Kevingway]

There's a Crusader stance where if you roll the maximum damage on an attack, you get to roll again and add the new roll to the damage, and keep going as long as you roll the maximum.

Now combine it with the spell where any time you roll a 1, it's treated as rolling a 2.

With a 1d2 damage weapon, you now do infinite damage with every attack.

JaronK

Assuming that "Aura of Chaos" is the stance you're speaking of, Tome of Battle specifies this as a melee attack, not a ranged attack. How could I work this into the Blowgun?

[avr]

Isn't the main advantage of a blowgun as a nearly-silent ambush weapon? i.e. one that may not reveal your position. I think turning it into a magic submachinegun is missing the point somehow.

[Callin]

Isn't the main advantage of a blowgun as a nearly-silent ambush weapon? i.e. one that may not reveal your position. I think turning it into a magic submachinegun is missing the point somehow.

Not a submachine gun. More like a .50 cal sniper rifle. *Pink Mist*

[TuggyNE]

I know ya meant inches but I had to do it. lol. I can just imagine an Aztec Warrior loading a 30' dart into a 3' blowgun to shoot a jaguar.

Sorry, the blowguns are 30' long or so. Not the darts. Darts are just regular length or maybe a bit longer.

And no, that wasn't a typo. (Merriam-Webster suggests "up to 23 feet", which seems a bit lacking, but perhaps my memory is off.)

[Callin]

Sorry, the blowguns are 30' long or so. Not the darts. Darts are just regular length or maybe a bit longer.

And no, that wasn't a typo. (Merriam-Webster suggests "up to 23 feet", which seems a bit lacking, but perhaps my memory is off.)

Was going off the dimensions listed earlier. It made for a very funny visual.

[Rubik]

One level of factotum for +Int to damage.

Four levels in factotum, or one of rogue or thug fighter for +1d6 sneak attack, or three levels in swordsage (or one, if 4th level or above when you enter) for +2d6 sneak attack.

One feat (Craven) for +character level damage on a sneak attack.

A rogue 1/factotum 4/thug fighter 1/swordsage 1 with Craven could give you 1+5d6+7+Int without any weapon modifications.

It's too bad that, like most of ToB, the Shadow Blade feat is only for melee. Adding +Dex would be nice for anyone using a ranged build (minus the occasional soulbow or shiba protector builds, of course, who have less use for Dexterity).

[Forrestfire]

Targeteer Fighter, Dead Eye, and the Drow Fighter ACF (which does not require you be a drow) allow you to get your Dex bonus to damage up to three times per hit (1x on all ranged attacks, +1x if they're within 30ft, +1x if they're flat-footed).

This may go a long way to getting more damage, depending on how fast you can attack.

Fighter 1 gets you all targeteer and the Drow of the Underdark ACF, and Dead Eye was errata'd to require only +1 BAB instead of 14. Slot into a build of your choice.

[Rubik]

Stack weapon crystal properties on a weapon crystal. Go after the energy damage ones. That's an easy +4d6 damage right there, for WAY under a +4 equivalent weapon.

[Kevingway]

Thanks guys! Are there anymore unique suggestions? I'm loving the ideas so far!

[Rubik]

A tooth of Leraje from Tome of Magic. A bit over 20k to turn your +1 blowgun into a +5 blowgun for 20 hours a day.

[Kevingway]

Do you think it would be possible to use these with Two-Weapon Fighting? What would the drawbacks be? How could the penalties be reduced?

Just considering all possibilities :)

[Rubik]

Do you think it would be possible to use these with Two-Weapon Fighting? What would the drawbacks be? How could the penalties be reduced?

Just considering all possibilities :)Blowguns aren't melee weapons or thrown weapons. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't work.

If you can use a blowgun to make iteratives, the Rapid Shot line should work.

[Captnq]

Weapon Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9053.msg183871#msg183871)

And with that out of the way...

BLOWGUN
- DUNGEON MASTER’S GUIDE (3.0)
- DUNGEON MASTER’S GUIDE (3.5)
- MASTERS OF THE WILD (3.0)
- ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (3.0)
Simple Ranged Weapon
Cost: 1 gp
Damage (s): 1
Damage (m): 1
Critical: x2
Range: 10 ft
Weight: 2 lb
Type: P
Ammo: Blowgun Needle
Editor: A blowgun is only of use to inflict injury poison. That’s about it.

BLOWGUN, GREATER
- COMPLETE WARRIOR (3.5)
- MASTERS OF THE WILD (3.0)
- ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (3.0)
Exotic Ranged Weapon
Cost: 15 gp
Damage (s): 1d2
Damage (m): 1d3
Critical: x2
Range: 10 ft
Weight: 2 lb
Type: P
Ammo: Dart
Editor: While the ammunition has the same stats as thrown darts, they are configured differently. You cannot use a throwing dart in a blowgun, and you cannot throw a dart made for a blowgun. When buying ammunition for this weapon, you must choose one or the other. Frankly, this is only useful for inflicting poison, so why not use the normal blowgun and forgo the need for an exotic weapon proficiency.

Oh, and since you will more then likely want The ULTIMATE blowguy weapon, I present...

NINJA-TO
- ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (3.0)
Exotic Light Melee Weapon
Cost: 10 gp
Damage (s): 1d4
Damage (m): 1d6
Critical: 19-20/x2
Weight: 3 lb
Type: S
Exotic Light Melee Weapon
Damage (s): 1d4
Damage (m): 1d6
Critical: x2
Range: 10 ft
Type: B
Exotic Ranged Weapon
Damage (s): 1
Damage (m): 1
Critical: x2
Range: 10 ft
Type: P
Ammo: Blowgun Needle
Editor: Is it a nice weapon, but the scabbard is what’s impressive about this. It’s a rare triple weapon. A Shortsword, a club and a blowgun. While the three weapons are not that impressive, it gives to many options, which is what ninjas need.

And here is your ammunition:

BLOWGUN NEEDLE
- DUNGEON MASTER’S GUIDE (3.0)
- DUNGEON MASTER’S GUIDE (3.5)
- ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (3.0)
Ammunition (Blowgun Needle)
Cost: .05 gp
Weight: - (20)
Editor: The weapon is only of use for inflicting poison.

DART, ACID
- RACES OF FAERUN (3.0)
Simple Thrown Ammunition (Dart)
Ammunition (Dart)
Cost: 20 gp
Damage (s): 1d3 + Special
Damage (m): 1d4 + Special
Critical: x2
Range: 20 ft
Weight: 1 lb
Type: P
Editor: Extra Damage is good. Remember that you have to choose if you are getting it to be thrown or if you are getting it to load in a blowgun or other launcher. Now can I load other alchemical brews into the dart, I wonder?

DART, BARBED
- RACES OF FAERUN (3.0)
Simple Thrown Weapon
Cost: 1 gp
Damage (s): 1d3
Damage (m): 1d4
Critical: 18-20/x2
Range: 20 ft
Weight: 5 lb
Type: P
Editor: Bringing the A-game when it comes to critical range. This weighs way too much to load in a blowgun. How you make a 5 pound dart that outweighs a spear is beyond me.

DART, STUN
- RACES OF FAERUN (3.0)
Simple Thrown Ammunition (Dart)
Ammunition (Dart)
Cost: 40 gp
Damage (s): 1d3
Damage (m): 1d4
Critical: x2
Range: 20 ft
Weight: 1 lb
Type: P
Editor: What a lousy save, but still, it is what it is. I’d buy a few.

DART, THROWN
- PLAYER’S HANDBOOK (3.0)
- PLAYER’S HANDBOOK I (3.5)
- UNDERDARK (3.5)
- COMPLETE WARRIOR (3.5)
- ORIENTAL ADVENTURES (3.0)
Simple Thrown Weapon
Ammunition (Dart)
Cost: .5 gp
Damage (s): 1d3
Damage (m): 1d4
Critical: x2
Range: 20 ft
Weight: 1/2 lb
Type: P
Editor: Standard issue dart. Throw it, load it in a blowgun. Just remember that blow darts are different from thrown darts. Buy them one way or the other.

And since your primary use will be to inflict poison.

Weapon Special Abilities Involving Poison:
(Assassination, Toxic, Venomous, Viper, Virulent)
We all know how poison works. Poison is normally (XdX/XdX) damage against an attribute or two and sometimes has a weird side effect. Regardless of the success or failure of the first saving throw, you still roll the second one a minute later. Now, once a dose of poison is smeared on a weapon, it affects just a single target, normally (see toxic). It retails it’s dose until the weapon hits a target or is touched or the poison is wiped off. Exposure to the elements normally doesn’t wash the poison away. There are two types of poison usable with a weapon: Contact and Injury.
Contact: Merely touching this type of poison necessitates a saving throw. A weapon attack or a touch attack can actively deliver it. Even if a creature has sufficient damage reduction to avoid taking any damage from the attack, the poison can still affect it. The upside of this is that if you need to, you can make a touch attack with your weapon and forgo the damage that round to deliver the poison.
Injury: This type of poison must be delivered through a wound. If a creature has sufficient damage reduction to avoid taking any damage from the attack, the poison doesn’t affect it. You cannot make a touch attack and have the weapon deal poison damage.
Editor (Using poison underwater) Unless specifically made for the situation, poison cannot be used on weapons underwater. However, I would rule that an assassination weapon which “drinks” in poison can be used underwater. This is a ruling by the editor, there are no rules about poison underwater anywhere.
Editor (Whirling): You might get the bright idea to use poison on a whirling weapon because it’s one roll to hit multiple targets. Alas, the poison takes effect on the first TARGET, not the first attack roll. A poisoned whirling weapon still hits a whole bunch of targets, but you need to pick which one it effects. You would think that the exception would be the viper weapon ability, except that whirling is a slashing melee only WA. When you activate the viper ability, it becomes a piercing weapon, and the whirling WA goes dormant.
Creating Poison (Venomous): Now, if you are worried about getting poison in the first place, There are two WAs that do just that. Venomous coats itself in injury poison. Lousy strength damaging injury poison with a pathetic fortitude save, but poison that you can’t accidentally poison yourself with, since it applies itself, and it’s available as a swift action, so you can hit someone with it every round. This would work great with enfeebling or weakening, if those WAs didn’t suck so much.
Creating Poison (Viper): Viper is a good amount of damage (1d6/1d6 Con), but a lousy fortitude save. I suggest looking at Marrowcrushing and Wounding for synergy. Also note that it doesn’t work with toxic, since every bite from the viper does poison damage and there is no limit to how much poison it can make. Assassination would allow you to apply poison to the snake, since the snake is a piercing weapon, but it would not help with the viper’s save DC, since the poison is created by the viper, not applied to the weapon. Virulent is also pointless because you aren’t applying the poison, it’s being created with each bite. You could have a venomous viper weapon, but you would need to use a swift action to reapply the poison after the first strike.
Maximizing Effectiveness: Assassination allows you to add the weapons enhancement bonus to the poison’s save DC. This can make a lousy poison deadly very quickly. The second most useful is toxic. Doubling the number of times you get to use one dose of poison can get ugly very quickly. There is no poison that you can apply to a weapon that cannot take advantage of that. Finally, virulent makes it work twice as fast. Normally, most player distain poison because usually the fight is over long before the second roll takes effect. Shortening the time from 10 rounds to 5 rounds is a step in the right direction. Still, most enemies don’t last 5 rounds after the first blow. So this last poison WA isn’t that useful to a PC, but much more useful to a DM, since you expect the PCs to still be up in 5 rounds. Still, there’s no kill like overkill. If you want the ultimate poison weapon and got the WBL to blow, go ahead. It might come in handy now and again.

If you need more suggestions, look at my weapon handbook.


NOW THEN...

IF you want to REWRITE and IMPROVE the blowgun entry and/or give suggestions, PLEASE. I am ALWAYS accepting suggestions/entries. Feel free to PM me.