How does it work? (Artificer)

[UmpteenthDoctor]

Ok I am reading the Artificer class on D&D Tools and I will be perfectly honest I am lost.

So it does not need to know the spells it can just make the items as if he does?

How do Infusions work? The wall of text is losing me quick (ADHD you devilish b*stard you strike again)

If using this in PF what to do about the Craft Reserve?

How exactly does an Artificer make these items for like half off?

Can anyone help me out with an idiots guide to Artificer at least to those points?

[Lord Vukodlak]

Ok I am reading the Artificer class on D&D Tools and I will be perfectly honest I am lost.

So it does not need to know the spells it can just make the items as if he does?

How do Infusions work? The wall of text is losing me quick (ADHD you devilish b*stard you strike again)

If using this in PF what to do about the Craft Reserve?

How exactly does an Artificer make these items for like half off?

Can anyone help me out with an idiots guide to Artificer at least to those points?
The Artificer doesn't really work for PF, what makes it work well in 3.5 is it can make virtually any magic item and you can turn loot you find into craft reserve rather then spending your own xp. In PF if you don't have holy smite you can still craft a holy sword it just increases the spellcraft DC by 5.

What the Artificer can still do is make staves, scrolls and wands of regular divine and arcane spell which can't be done in PF unless you know the spell yourself.

I don't believe DnD Tools can provide enough information for the class you'll need the actual eberron campaign setting book. But infusions work much like spells but instead of buffing a creature.(constructs aside) you cast infuse and item and that item provides the bonus.

[UmpteenthDoctor]

Well I think my DM would allow me to continue doing that just use the XP thing if it helps.

How do Infusions work on things you make, I just dont get it.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Well I think my DM would allow me to continue doing that just use the XP thing if it helps.

How do Infusions work on things you make, I just dont get it.

You probably missed the edit but.

Infusions are like spells no wait they are spells, the only real difference is when you cast bull's strength(or other buffs) you don't cast it on the character(unless he's a construct). You infuse his gear and that provides the bonus from the temporary buff.

What difference does that make? well if your hit by a targeted dispel magic your gear isn't effected as the target was a creature you so they'd missed infused equipment an area dispel however would hit the creatures and the infused gear.

Again the Artificer doesn't work well in PF as most of its advantages are negated you don't spend xp in PF to craft items and lacking the spell prerequisites is only a issue for items that cast spells.

[UmpteenthDoctor]

Yes I did miss the edit, sorry must have come through after my post was up. Sorry.

Ah so you're basically 'casting' buffs on your items rather then people?

So just to be sure. I could as an Artificer create a scroll or wand or whatever (Baring the proper level to use such a feat) with whatever spell I wanted to put inside of it without the need to know the spell?

So at level 1 I want to make a scroll of Cure Light Wounds, I just make it with a Spellcraft DC check?

So which items cast spells?

So wait if I read that right in PF you can create a magical item such as a ring with a spell you don't know even if your not a class like the artificer? SInce rings don't cast magic you don't need the prereq? Or did I totally misread?

[Lord Vukodlak]

Ah so you're basically 'casting' buffs on your items rather then people?
Yes that's how infusions work.



So just to be sure. I could as an Artificer create a scroll or wand or whatever (Baring the proper level to use such a feat) with whatever spell I wanted to put inside of it without the need to know the spell?
Within certain limits yes, its a UMD (DC 20 + caster level) to emulate each spell normally required to create the item. And your caster level for making items is your artificer level+2.

[UmpteenthDoctor]

Read Edit, sorry we keep out editing each other it seems.

So a level 1 Artificer has access to level 2 spells?
So as a 1rst level Artificer I could scribe a scroll of Augury without having to actually know the spell?

I know in the example it said at lvl 3 I could cast fireball but only as a level 3 (3d6 rather then 5d6)

[Lord Vukodlak]

Read Edit, sorry we keep out editing each other it seems.

So a level 1 Artificer has access to level 2 spells?
So as a 1rst level Artificer I could scribe a scroll of Augury without having to actually know the spell?

I know in the example it said at lvl 3 I could cast fireball but only as a level 3 (3d6 rather then 5d6) Yes for meeting CL prerequisites for items his caster level is equal to his Artificer level+2 but the end item is just his normal caster level.


So wait if I read that right in PF you can create a magical item such as a ring with a spell you don't know even if your not a class like the artificer? SInce rings don't cast magic you don't need the prereq? Or did I totally misread?
In PF creating an item is not automatic it requires a spellcraft check, usually this isn't an issue if you meet the prerequistes. However for every prerequisite you don't meet the DC increases by 5. You can also increase the spellcraft DC by 5 to make eight hours of progress in four hours or spend a full eight hours traveling and four hours crafting.(but then you only make two hours of progress ie 250gp)

[UmpteenthDoctor]

Would you recommend anything to remedy this?

I thought maybe reduce the Spellcraft check to 15+Spell Level, and not have it effected by the Raising DC allowing it to basically be done for 10 off the Check, but allow it to increase the time per x# hour by 1 DC increase (So say a level 1 spell it would be 15+1+10 to make it done X#x10 hours faster)

[Lord Vukodlak]

Would you recommend anything to remedy this?

I thought maybe reduce the Spellcraft check to 15+Spell Level, and not have it effected by the Raising DC allowing it to basically be done for 10 off the Check, but allow it to increase the time per hour by 1 DC increase (So say a level 1 spell it would be 15+1+10 to make it done 10 hours faster)

Not sure what your asking to remedy...
In PF the base DC for crafting an item is 5+Caster Level, for each prerequisite the caster does not meet the DC increases by another five. (again you still need item creation feats and it wouldn't apply to spell trigger/completion items.)

An Artificer ported to Pathfinder would craft the same way because they also have pathfinder. The exception would be for spell trigger/completion items which normally requires the spell prerequisite to be met, For that the UMD would remain the same.

[UmpteenthDoctor]

5+Caster Level (Does that mean the level I am casting from for example the level 3 to make a fireball scroll or the level you must be to cast those level of spells?)

I was asking if anyone had any ideas on how to make the Artificer still feel unique in his job when everyone can basically do the same thing.

From what I quickly gleamed Wands, Scrolls, and Staves are the only thing that the Artificer could really still do without the need for the spell that no one else could with a DC hike.

[Lord Vukodlak]

5+Caster Level (Does that mean the level I am casting from for example the level 3 to make a fireball scroll or the level you must be to cast those level of spells?)
The level of the item but that's for basic pathfinder crafting, if you were using artificer abilities to make a scroll of fireball you'd use the skill checks found under the Artificer class.


I was asking if anyone had any ideas on how to make the Artificer still feel unique in his job when everyone can basically do the same thing.
There in lies the rub... you can't the only thing you have is the ability to make potions, wands, scrolls and staves for spells you don't have.
I normally wouldn't recommend looking at 3rd party material but Adamant gaming took a stab at Artificers for PF.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/3rd-party-classes/adamant-entertainment/artificer

[UmpteenthDoctor]

It looks cool but I do not get how the weird science things work, how to make one, I can make 1 per day at lvl 1 but I can imbue a ton of effects into it which is kinda cool.

But still not getting it.

EDIT: Also it says it has access to arcane and divine spell list up to 4th level but does that mean he can not make inventions with spells from 5th level or higher in it?

[Lord Vukodlak]

It looks cool but I do not get how the weird science things work, how to make one, I can make 1 per day at lvl 1 but I can imbue a ton of effects into it which is kinda cool.

But still not getting it.
I don't get the class either, maybe the physical boo goes into more detail I don't know.
Maybe look at (but don't post because its old) at this thread.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13895555

[UmpteenthDoctor]

I dont think it needs a fix or anything just to be made more clear. mostly I would just blend this ones rules into the 3.5 at least that one has better info on it.

[gorfnab]

Can anyone help me out with an idiots guide to Artificer at least to those points?
Artificer Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5929.0)

[Psyren]

To convert the Artificer to PF you could simply remove the crafting reserve altogether. It would still be a skill-based class that (a) gets all the crafting feats for free, (b) can emulate spells to make potions/spell-trigger/spell-completion items with UMD checks, (c) gets various infusions and (d) can take 10 on UMD even in combat. It doesn't really need the crafting reserve to function imo.

I would then just make crafting slightly cheaper for them as a baseline (maybe 10% off?) and allow them to use Retain Essence to increase that amount for specific creations by sacrificing/disenchanting other items (but no higher than, say, 25%.)

Also, all of their infusions that work on living constructs (including the handful that only work on them) would also work on half-constructs.

[UmpteenthDoctor]

I was actually thinking of just changing the EXP reserve to a false gold one. Basically they can substitute some other material up to that amount of gold that is required or have basic generic magical material on hand.

The rest I agree with thank you.