Newb question on melee rogues

[Zethex]

So I looked at various rogue guides and they all emphasize on dexterity and have strength as a dump stat even though that costs you a feat and strength actually would give you damage. What is the main reason that you can't just go the strength route? Is it just the TWF feat line or is there more to it? And, if it is the former, is it really so much better to dump strength than to make some different building decision? If yes, why?

[CyberThread]

You CAN go STR rogue, it is certainly an option , just tends to be less about twf , and more fighting decisions.

[Zethex]

Okay, but why isn't it recommended?

[Sir Chuckles]

Most of your damage is going to be from Sneak Attack.
Hide and Move Silently are Dex based.

It CAN be done, but don't be mistaken. Raw strength does not give you more damage, especially when you class features revolve around stabbing people in the spine.
But there is a variant Rogue that trades your Sneak Attack for Fighter bonus feats.

But don't make Dex your dump stat. Make it your secondary, so you're not incompetent at low levels at stealth.

[Zethex]

Why does Strength not give me damage? Doesn't it stack with sneak attack damage and also apply to off-hand attacks (I am planning on getting TWF from a different source with no prereqs). Or do you mean it doesn't give much damage compared to any other serious melee build?
Also, I plan on needing the Hide skill a lot less, once I get my 3rd level in Earth Elemental Infiltrator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9623257&postcount=8) :smallbiggrin:.

EDIT: Wasn't planning on making Dex the dump stat anyway. Was more thinking of keeping both Wis and Cha rather low.

[Malak'ai]

The extra damage you get from having a Str Bonus is very minor compared to other sources of extra damage a Rogue can get eg. Sneak Attack, Craven etc so it's generally advised not to worry about it.
This doesn't mean you can't put a higher roll into it, just remember, a Rogues strengths come from a high Dex and high Int.

[eggynack]

Well, first there's TWF, as mentioned, which is important. 15 dexterity is a hell of a lot, so emphasizing that stat is a way to capitalize on that investment. A second factor which has already been mentioned is skill use, because dexterity skills are often the focus of a rogue. A third factor, which has not yet been mentioned, is that rogues only have light armor proficiency, and light armor both provides little AC, and benefits from maximized dexterity. AC is occasionally important when you're expected to stand right next to the opponent. Thus, for those reasons, you end up with high dexterity, and it's somewhat inefficient to also push strength if you already have a high dexterity. You're getting maybe a couple of damage, when most of your damage is of the precision variety. Charisma is important for UMD, as well as the face skills, which are important. Similarly, wisdom is good for will saves, as well as scouting skills, which are important. Strength generally gives you less.

[Sir Chuckles]

The problem there is that you won't be an Elemental Infiltrator 3 until you hit Lv9 (6 levels in Rogue before hand). Also, that burrowing speed would not negate the need for a Move Silently. Popping out of the ground would indefinitely merit a Listen check from your target.

As above, your Strength bonus to damage, unless it is immense will pale in comparison to the d6s from Sneak Attack. At lv9, in your supposed build, you'd have a +4d6 sneak attack, eg 4-24 damage.

To match that damage output, even at minimum, you'd need 18 strength (+4). You could to a two-handed weapon, and that 18 strength would afford you a +6 to damage, and you could certainly enchant with some interesting things, but it's just the reason a Fighter is out damaged by a Wizard.
+1 is far less than +1d6

Again, a strength based Rogue is completely possible, you just need to consider that you're still a Rogue. Don't try to replace the Fighter, or you'll quickly realize that a d6 is much squishier than a d10 in full plate.
But an athletic Rogue is fun. skill points in Jump, Climb, and Swim can give you excellent ambush capabilities, especially with that burrow speed later on. A sneak attack could be "Oh god why are there men coming out of the walls?".

[Subaru Kujo]

The only disadvantage in having a low strength score as a rogue would be carry weight, and that doesn't even last that long (bags of holding, I love you). For instance, my Fighter/Rogue gestalt has a strength score of 8, and hits with the best of them still (more info in the sig).

Not to say you can't have a high one, it's just not integral to having an excellent rogue, if that makes sense.

[Zethex]

The reason I am thinking of not going the high Dex route is because I was planning on dipping Planar Ranger for the Knowledge(Planes) prereq and to get to the required BAB faster so that I can go into the Prestige class a level earlier. That will give me TWF without any prerequisites and allow me to use Martial Weapons. So I thought going the Str route would allow me to save a Feat on Weapon Finesse and to maybe do a little more damage both through the slight Str damage bonus and through wielding a Dwarven Waraxe in the main hand.
The drawbacks would be a bit of MAD and the fact that I am baring myself out of the Improved+ TWF feats. And the fact that I could never go the route of a crossbow wack-a-mole :smallconfused:. I'll have to think about it.

[Subaru Kujo]

The reason I am thinking of not going the high Dex route is because I was planning on dipping Planar Ranger for the Knowledge(Planes) prereq and to get to the required BAB faster so that I can go into the Prestige class a level earlier. That will give me TWF without any prerequisites and allow me to use Martial Weapons. So I thought going the Str route would allow me to save a Feat on Weapon Finesse and to maybe do a little more damage both through the slight Str damage bonus and through wielding a Dwarven Waraxe in the main hand.
The drawbacks would be a bit of MAD and the fact that I am baring myself out of the Improved+ TWF feats. And the fact that I could never go the route of a crossbow wack-a-mole :smallconfused:. I'll have to think about it.

Don't necessarily have to be MAD. Just have to be willing to give something up. If your party has a face, you could give up Charisma. Be the slobbering street tough. You know you want to. :p