Bardic music queries

[justiceforall]

Hi Playground, seeking some clarification on bardic music rules. The SRD is somewhat unclear on which bardic abilities require a standard action for concentrating on, and which ones you can continue so long as you do not speak/cast a verbal spell/etc:


Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability.

So take Inspire Courage:


Inspire Courage (Su)

A bard with 3 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use song or poetics to inspire courage in his allies (including himself), bolstering them against fear and improving their combat abilities. To be affected, an ally must be able to hear the bard sing. The effect lasts for as long as the ally hears the bard sing and for 5 rounds thereafter.

Since it does not specifically state it requires concentration, can I safely assume it can be continued as a free action as long as you don't violate one of the preconditions (spell-triggers/casting spells/etc)?


Song of Freedom (Sp)

A bard of 12th level or higher with 15 or more ranks in a Perform skill can use music or poetics to create an effect equivalent to the break enchantment spell (caster level equals the character’s bard level). Using this ability requires 1 minute of uninterrupted concentration and music

Would Song of Freedom be one where you had to use 10 standard actions?

[justiceforall]

Wow, noone?

[holywhippet]

All the bard songs which require concentration state as much so inspire courage doesn't require it.

Song of Freedom would require 10 standard actions in theory. In practice you are unlikely to ever want to use it in combat so it takes 1 minute of performing uninterrupted.

[justiceforall]

Ok, so almost none of the bardic music powers from the SRD require concentration then?

What about the powers from the Seeker of the Song PrC? It mentions concentration in a few of the rules for combining multiple songs, but once again doesn't really mention concentration being required for anything except a refrain.

Am I reading that right?

[Optimator]

Fascinate requires concentration, I believe.

[Spore]

Ok, so almost none of the bardic music powers from the SRD require concentration then?

What about the powers from the Seeker of the Song PrC? It mentions concentration in a few of the rules for combining multiple songs, but once again doesn't really mention concentration being required for anything except a refrain.

Am I reading that right?

If it is a bardic performance and nothing else is mentioned it's referring to the explanation for inspire courage and thus a standard action to start and a free action to maintain.

[Vhaidara]

Since these last until you stop playing, I found something clever. I just always am plinking away at a string, and when we start a fight, I pick up the pace into a LotR Theme (Our group has a demihuman [illumian] with a greatsword, a dwarf fighter, a sylvan archer, a Sor who casts Light at will, and the short guy who writes the book).
The real result is that the entire group doesn't have to delay action until after me every fight.

[nedz]

Since these last until you stop playing, I found something clever. I just always am plinking away at a string, and when we start a fight, I pick up the pace into a LotR Theme (Our group has a demihuman [illumian] with a greatsword, a dwarf fighter, a sylvan archer, a Sor who casts Light at will, and the short guy who writes the book).
The real result is that the entire group doesn't have to delay action until after me every fight.

Your group doesn't do stealth then ? :smalltongue:

So the bad guys get to hear you coming which gives them plenty of time to prepare: ready actions, cast buffs, etc.

I'm not sure that this is the best strategy.

[Talya]

Sneak, Sneak, Sneak past the BBEG...

[Gwendol]

Exactly! Sing to give all a bonus to stealth! :smallbiggrin:

[Chronos]

Perpetual singing isn't necessarily always the best strategy, but it is certainly a valid one. My last bard would always keep her song going for at least long enough to make sure there wasn't another encounter right around the corner.

What I found annoying, though: Bardic music is an abundant resource, such that you'll pretty much always be able to use it for every encounter. Buff spells like Haste are a much more limited resource, such that you'll only want to use them in important fights. But while you can start the music while a spell is already running, you can't start a spell while your music is already running. So you'll go into an encounter and start singing, then realize that it's a tough one, but to cast a spell you need to stop your song (and then re-start it, if desired).

[Talya]

Bardic music is an abundant resource, such that you'll pretty much always be able to use it for every encounter.

It becomes less abundant when you're using 3+ uses of bardic music per encounter with DFI, Inspire Courage, and Snowflake Wardance stacking.


but to cast a spell you need to stop your song (and then re-start it, if desired).
I thought Melodic Casting was considered a bard feat tax?

[Chronos]

I thought Melodic Casting was considered a bard feat tax?
If it had been available, I would have taken it, but this was a core-only game, and I had already talked the DM into stretching to allow Obtain Familiar.

[nedz]

Obligatory Link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdJg6Duzzf4)

[Vhaidara]

Your group doesn't do stealth then ? :smalltongue:

So the bad guys get to hear you coming which gives them plenty of time to prepare: ready actions, cast buffs, etc.

I'm not sure that this is the best strategy.

Ah, but I'm playing at a volume that is not heard beyond my square. I forgot to mention it is very light plinking.

[Diarmuid]

Unfortunately there arent really any rules for "light plinking" so whatever you're doing is homebrew/DM fiat.

You're either playing or your not. Kinda like how you cant choose to "cast quietly".

[Deophaun]

Unfortunately there arent really any rules for "light plinking" so whatever you're doing is homebrew/DM fiat.

You're either playing or your not. Kinda like how you cant choose to "cast quietly".
Not really. There are rules for spell components that say you need a "strong voice" to be able to use verbal components. So, you can't do them quietly. However, there is no such restriction on bardic music. The only requirement is that people be able to hear you. If your party has good Listen checks across the board, you can whisper your bardic music (DC 15 + 1 per 10 feet of distance). This is why message is a cantrip no Bard should be without.

[justiceforall]

Hah I like it. That's a pretty snappy interaction :).