Psionic Trick Help.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, so, doing a little tinkering of sorts. I know there's a psionic trick, I think it's for the Psion class, that allows you to work it out to were with no investment of actions or time once the trick comes on line, you can cut all the damage you take in half right at the get go.

So, here's my question: The Trick I mentioned, what is the bare minimum investment to get it online and running to the point that I can just forget about it when I'm not being actively damaged by someone/thing? I'm talking lowest possible manifester level, lowest number of feats spent to get it to work (but it must work.) fewest number of powers known, fewest number of power points, the works?

Combine with a recharge trick if needed.



The reason would be I'd see putting this trick(s) on a martial themed character who's major feature is they can just keep getting brutalized and they just freakishly will not go down or stop coming at you. This combo seemed ideal for that.

[Psyren]

I think you mean Vigor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm) + Share Pain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm) + Psicrystal, right? The idea being that a psicrystal allows you to effectively double the HP you get from Vigor (via the free power sharing) and then Share Pain sends half of your incoming damage over to that free pool.

The minimum level therefore would be 3 because Share Pain is a 2nd-level power.

[Metahuman1]

Likely the one. Now, if I wanted to get that worked out so that I could do it with out it eating up my action economy, what would be the next step?

[Rubik]

I think you mean Vigor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm) + Share Pain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm) + Psicrystal, right? The idea being that a psicrystal allows you to effectively double the HP you get from Vigor (via the free power sharing) and then Share Pain sends half of your incoming damage over to that free pool.

The minimum level therefore would be 3 because Share Pain is a 2nd-level power.I think this is what you're referring to, Metahuman1. If you don't mind losing a manifester level and expect to be in melee a lot, you might consider a one-level dip in crusader from Tome of Battle to get the Martial Spirit stance and the Crusader's Strike maneuver. Otherwise, a 3,000 gp item from ToB (a novice devoted spirit amulet) could grant you Crusader's Strike, which could qualify you for the Martial Stance feat, for the Martial Spirit stance. Quite useful for constantly healing yourself, and it'd segue fairly nicely with the above trick.

[edit] Share Pain can be manifested out of battle, since it has a nice duration. Taking the Linked Power feat (from Complete Psionic) could let you set up Vigor easily, since you can manifest a power on either round 1 or the surprise round and Link it to Vigor, which will fire off the following round; however, since the first power costs a minimum of 1 power point, it won't be quite as pp-efficient, though you can always use the power on something you would want to manifest anyway, such as a Psionic Grease or Entangling Ectoplasm on your enemies.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, 3 questions then.

1: Does the subject for shared pain have to be a Psi-Crystal, or could I get a different subject if I wished? And what are the requirements to count as a subject if so?

2: Does this trick gel with Incarnum Recharge or another recharge that can be brought online in addition to this, and what additional investment would it take?

3: How does shared pain interact with things like DR or a Crusaders Delayed damage pool. Do those kick in first and then you half what's left over, or do you start by halving the damage with shared pain and then let DR or Delayed damage pool or such kick in?

My overall goal is to be able to just have it worked out so that I'm only actually taking half damage, with the smallest investment necessary, all day.

After that I can invest in other things like Crusader levels or such.

[Metahuman1]

Update!:

So, after some looking and some thinking, it occurred to me with about 24 PP you could have Shared pain power manifested 24/7, and with 30pp you could do that + have a couple of back up re-applications in your pocket in case something went wrong during the day.

So, here's a question. How would a Psion at level 3 boost his PP up to about 30 for the day? He start's with 11, and he has to have a minimum +1 from Int to manifest the power, so that means 12 pp as a default. How do I get another 18 PP?


As for the Vigor portion of the program, I might have found a better option, given that the character this would be for is starting at a fairly high level anyway, so let's not worry about that and focus on the 30pp for the day total for now.

[Psyren]

You don't need it up around the clock - most adventuring only happens for around 8 hours maximum each day, and many times 4 hours. A bunch of the remaining time is spent walking and sleeping.


Ok, 3 questions then.

1: Does the subject for shared pain have to be a Psi-Crystal, or could I get a different subject if I wished? And what are the requirements to count as a subject if so?

2: Does this trick gel with Incarnum Recharge or another recharge that can be brought online in addition to this, and what additional investment would it take?

3: How does shared pain interact with things like DR or a Crusaders Delayed damage pool. Do those kick in first and then you half what's left over, or do you start by halving the damage with shared pain and then let DR or Delayed damage pool or such kick in?


1) You can share pain with anyone willing (e.g. a party member) but psicrystals are generally the best choice because (a) they follow your orders (so they're always willing), (b) they can share your square/ride in your pocket and are hard to target while doing so (Diminutive size), (c) you can share Vigor with them (for free even) so neither you nor they will need healing afterward, and finally (d) they have hardness, which depending on your DM might apply to the Share Pain damage.

2) Anything that recharges PP will work with this, sure. (Which Incarnum recharge do you mean, there's more than one.)

3) Up to your DM.

[Metahuman1]

1) You can share pain with anyone willing (e.g. a party member) but psicrystals are generally the best choice because (a) they follow your orders (so they're always willing), (b) they can share your square/ride in your pocket and are hard to target while doing so (Diminutive size), (c) you can share Vigor with them (for free even) so neither you nor they will need healing afterward, and finally (d) they have hardness, which depending on your DM might apply to the Share Pain damage.

2) Anything that recharges PP will work with this, sure. (Which Incarnum recharge do you mean, there's more than one.)

3) Up to your DM.

1): I've actually had the idea to get a light weight object, say a candle holder or something, get the party cleric to help me out by casting animate object on it, get the wizard to hit it with shrink item, and then just tuck it inside my armor, and use it as the willing target. The trick? I'd use Riverine as the base material. He takes the damage, and proceeds to immediately go, "Doesn't really bother me.", and he's always willing cause it follows the clerics instruction to be so.

2) Because I didn't need vigor because of the above, I was actually thinking that if I just got my PP total up to 30 for the day, that would end up being enough to manifest shared pain all day out of combat and still have enough to re-manifest it a couple of times on the off chance it were to get dispelled or something. (You know, for those times you have to fight the mind flayer or something.) So, I actually sorta didn't need recharge anymore, just a way to tack on about 18 or so PP a day to my total.

That said, there's more then one incarnum recharge trick? That's interesting cause I only knew about one. Ironically, I learned about it from clicking on a link in your sig, Psyren, many many moons ago.

3) Check with DM, gotcha. =)

[Psyren]

There's two, though they both involve Psycarnum Infusion (at least, for races without essentia.) the first relies on a dubious reading of Azure Talent, while the second is the more commonly referenced one that uses Midnight Augmentation.

[Metahuman1]

There's two, though they both involve Psycarnum Infusion (at least, for races without essentia.) the first relies on a dubious reading of Azure Talent, while the second is the more commonly referenced one that uses Midnight Augmentation.

Huh, interesting. I was looking at the one with Midnight Augmentation, but like I said, if I can boost my Psion dips PP to 30 a day, I shouldn't need it under the revised plan I've hatch with the party casters.

That having been said, any ideas/suggestions on how to get the PP up to that? So far the only idea I've had is to have a +1 Manifester Dart to get 5 PP that I hold when I manifest it the first couple of times a day. But as far as I know those would not stack. Would they?

[Rubik]

It's easy enough to get extra pp in increments of 5 or less via +1 manifester arrows. They're 1/50 the cost of, say, a +1 manifester longsword, and so long as you never fire them from a bow (or, Bytopia forbid, throw them), you can reuse them every day. A mere 6 arrows will keep you in manifestations of Share Pain for all of your waking hours (and some of your sleeping ones, too), even at level 3. By level 5, you can use Extend Power to double the duration and use the extra arrows for other things.

[Elderand]

there are also crystal shards in magic of eberron that grant you 2pp 3/day.
As a bonus those PP can bypass the cap of your ML.

Sadly restricted to Kalashtar and Elan.

[Rubik]

there are also crystal shards in magic of eberron that grant you 2pp 3/day.
As a bonus those PP can bypass the cap of your ML.

Sadly restricted to Kalashtar and Elan.And anyone capable of making the proper Use Psionic Device DC or casting Alter Self or Polymorph, or manifesting Metamorphosis.

[Elderand]

And anyone capable of making the proper Use Psionic Device DC or castingAlter Self or Polymorph, or manifesting Metamorphosis.

True but those are not necessrly reliable or available as soon as you could buy the shard.

[Metahuman1]

It's easy enough to get extra pp in increments of 5 or less via +1 manifester arrows. They're 1/50 the cost of, say, a +1 manifester longsword, and so long as you never fire them from a bow (or, Bytopia forbid, throw them), you can reuse them every day. A mere 6 arrows will keep you in manifestations of Share Pain for all of your waking hours (and some of your sleeping ones, too), even at level 3. By level 5, you can use Extend Power to double the duration and use the extra arrows for other things.

So wait, they do RAW stack? Cool, I was always under the impression you couldn't do that. Well, that makes my life easier, 4 arrows, 3 Psion Levels, a 12 Int, a Power Know, and a Readied action for when I sleep along with the usual precautions in case of ambush while resting so that the first thing that happens before the normal action economy kicks in is I get my all important power active.

Thanks for the help guys, it's been a pleasure! XD! When I finish building the character I'll post a link up here just so you can all see the fruits of the labors.

[Elderand]

I don't think it stacks

Quoted from the manifester property

"as usual a psionic character cannot pay a power's cost with power points from more than one source"

Each manifester arrow would be a different source.

Do note that the shard from magic of eberron do break this rule specificly

"... the power is augmented by 2 power points (beyond any augmentation you provide from your own power point reserve)"

[Metahuman1]

Would my own personal PP pool form class levels+ability mod bonus count against it? Cause if not this could still work.

First manifesting: 3 PP from Manifester arrow.

Second Manifesting: 1 PP form my persona Pool + 2 PP from Arrow not spent on the first pass.

Third Manifesting: Do as first except with a fresh arrow.

[Elderand]

Would my own personal PP pool form class levels+ability mod bonus count against it? Cause if not this could still work.

First manifesting: 3 PP from Manifester arrow.

Second Manifesting: 1 PP form my persona Pool + 2 PP from Arrow not spent on the first pass.

Third Manifesting: Do as first except with a fresh arrow.

Your own pool and the arrow pool are two different sources I'm afraid.

[Rubik]

So wait, they do RAW stack? Cool, I was always under the impression you couldn't do that. Well, that makes my life easier, 4 arrows, 3 Psion Levels, a 12 Int, a Power Know, and a Readied action for when I sleep along with the usual precautions in case of ambush while resting so that the first thing that happens before the normal action economy kicks in is I get my all important power active.

Thanks for the help guys, it's been a pleasure! XD! When I finish building the character I'll post a link up here just so you can all see the fruits of the labors.You can only use power points from a single source in one manifestation, meaning you can only use the arrow OR your own personal power point pool -- not both simultaneously. However, Share Pain only costs 3 pp (or 5, Extended), meaning that when the duration on one runs out, just use the next arrow in line to manifest the next one.

[Metahuman1]

Curses.

Well, that being the case, this can still fly.

I've got a minimum 12 PP pool (maybe a touch higher if I manage some kinda luck with rolling stats and I can afford a heavy investment in Int. ), personally, that's 4 manifestings covering 12 hours.

4 Arrows would give me an additional 4 manifestings, using 3 out of the 5 PP form each and then just switching to a fresh one each time, over an additional 12 hours. Between the two this means I should be able to pretty much always have it running.

Or, have I missed something? (No, serious question, if I have I wanna know now rather then be surprised later. )


Edit: Psionic Ninja'd! Bur seriously, it works, so, cool deal. Thanks!!!

[Elderand]

Well by my calculation each arrow (if a dmd even allow them to be bought individualy) would cost 246.05 gp. Or 246 gp and 5 cp

[Metahuman1]

If the DM will allow a player to buy a +1 Slaying Arrow or a +1 Bane Arrow or a +1 Exit Wound Arrow or a +1 Explosive Arrow, I fail to see how this should be that much different. Just throwing that out there. Particularly if I'm honest and up front with him about the build and what I intend to be able to do and not do with it.

[Elderand]

If he allows it for other magic arrow I don't see why he wouldn't allow it for manifester arrow eithers. I'm just saying, some DM might only allow players to buy magic arrows in a full stack of 50

[Metahuman1]

If he allows it for other magic arrow I don't see why he wouldn't allow it for manifester arrow eithers. I'm just saying, some DM might only allow players to buy magic arrows in a full stack of 50

That's possible, I'll have to keep it in mind, and I might use your other suggestion as a back up plan.

Still, probably reasonable to think as long as he knows it's only to enable this one thing that doesn't actually require shooting arrows, a reasonable DM would go for it.

[Elderand]

That's possible, I'll have to keep it in mind, and I might use your other suggestion as a back up plan.

Still, probably reasonable to think as long as he knows it's only to enable this one thing that doesn't actually require shooting arrows, a reasonable DM would go for it.

The argument against is that it's a bit of a cheap trick. Which is why some DM wouldn't allow it. I don't mean using the arrow to maintain vigor. I mean the fact that depending on what a property is applied to you only get it once or 50 times.

It's less an issue for other properties because while you could put flaming on a sword or on arrows, the sword is always going to be there (barring sunder or such) while the arrow will be destroyed over time.

Manifester arrows on the other hand will always be with you since you never fire them. In essence you got the property 50 times for the same price as someone putting it on a sword would get it once.

Personaly I have no issues with it since it's such a small amount of PP and can only manifest low level powers anyway.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

Also, I made a mistake, the cost of each arrow individualy would be 286.05 gp. Forgot to count the +1 that all magic weapons must have.

[Metahuman1]

The argument against is that it's a bit of a cheap trick. Which is why some DM wouldn't allow it. I don't mean using the arrow to maintain vigor. I mean the fact that depending on what a property is applied to you only get it once or 50 times.

It's less an issue for other properties because while you could put flaming on a sword or on arrows, the sword is always going to be there (barring sunder or such) while the arrow will be destroyed over time.

Manifester arrows on the other hand will always be with you since you never fire them. In essence you got the property 50 times for the same price as someone putting it on a sword would get it once.

Personaly I have no issues with it since it's such a small amount of PP and can only manifest low level powers anyway.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here.

Also, I made a mistake, the cost of each arrow individualy would be 286.05 gp. Forgot to count the +1 that all magic weapons must have.

I get ya, and I appreciate it. =)

[Rubik]

If you really want to stretch your power point buck, nab a power you'll want to use Linked all the time (like Synchronicity, from CPsi), Linked Power (also from CPsi), and Metapower (Linked Power + Synchronicity). Since Linked Power explicitly states that the secondary power is considered an augment to the first, Metapower reduces the cost by two.

So if you want to do the above at 1st level, the first fight of any combat manifest Synchronicity (1 pp) Linked to Vigor (+2 pp, but via Metapower is a flat 0 pp). You gain 10 temporary hp for the cost of a feat and your psionic focus, and it doesn't even eat up your actions for the round, since Synchronicity gives you a standard action.

[Metahuman1]

I'll have to keep that in mind, thanks! =)

[Rubik]

I'll have to keep that in mind, thanks! =)The best part is that you can use that combo for the rest of your career, and it remains useful. After all, you can Link anything to Synchronicity, from Vigor to Astral Construct to Psychic Reformation, and it'll help with action economy due to letting you manifest without losing any actions at all.