Would zombies treat a door as a wall?

[CyberThread]

So half the stratagy here, is to use Illusion walls against mindless things, like zombies and make them just stand in one location being no threat to anyone.


IF you are running (more like walking) away from zombies, and you open and then shut a door as you keep running.


Should the zombie treat the door , as simply being a wall segment and no longer give chase?

[Stux]

Totally depends on the type of zombie. In some mythos they retain muscle memory of simple actions they performed when alive. Opening a door might be one of those. Even if not, zombies will often tend to rage when they have recently seen a living person. When raging they will slam and claw everything around them, walls included. This may be enough to break down a door.

[Bhaakon]

3.5/PF zombies have no intelligence, so I don't see how you'd justify one operating a door with any kind of latching mechanism (locked or not). At best they'd attack it, though I could see an argument for walking into it (possibly battering it down by sheer weight of numbers if there's a horde of them) or standing there passively as if the PCs had just disappeared into thin air.

I think it would largely depend on how they were created and the feel of the adventure you're going for.

[Kelb_Panthera]

DM call.

The quality of being mindless is ill-defined at best. For example: spiders spin webs, an impressively complex task if you've ever watched one work, yet, as vermin, normal and even monstrous spiders are mindless.

I'd be inclined to lean toward allowing zombies to recognize everyday, mundane situations and take everyday mundane actions like identifying a non-hidden door and operating a door handle.

Edit: subject to the nature of the corpse used to make the zombie, of course.

[geonova]

a mindless undead would require a command to do anything that isn't stupidly simple, opening a door is above that line, so, yup, treat it like a wall.

[AMFV]

So half the stratagy here, is to use Illusion walls against mindless things, like zombies and make them just stand in one location being no threat to anyone.


IF you are running (more like walking) away from zombies, and you open and then shut a door as you keep running.


Should the zombie treat the door , as simply being a wall segment and no longer give chase?

Well Zombies don't magically stop at walls either, they would definitely try to tear through even if they couldn't open it, and that would probably be enough to break through a door or a wall in most cases.

[Berenger]

I'd look at the INT score, if it equals that of a dog or cat, they should recognize this particular door after seeing somebody using it. They should not recognize the whole concept of a "door" (weak angles, pickable lock, usable doorknob, exact purpose...). They just know that this thing can open and that their prey is behind it, so they will stand there and scatch / bash the door. If they have no INT score and no memory, they will forget their prey the instant it vanishes from their senses (which may or may not be blocked by a door / wall). If they have an INT score of 2, like a clever dog or cat, well, hope they didn't see how you manipulated the door to open, they could learn a trick.

[Forum Explorer]

depends on the orders the zombie was given I'd say. If they were told to guard a room, they'd treat doors as walls. If they were told to follow a particular patrol path, they'd treat doors as doors.

[Clistenes]

I think that zombies and skeletons have the ability to recognize some things around them and react accordingly (human-living being-kill it; dog-living being-kill it; cow-iving being-kill it; table-non living-ignore it; another zombie-non living-ignore it); they have Wisdom 10, and that means they can perceive their surroundings quite well.

So the zombie can probably recognize the door as something that can be bypassed; it probably lacks the intelligence to open the door, but if it hears a potential victim on the other side, it will slam the door until breaking it.

[Bullet06320]

to me it seems something that's mindless wouldn't precieve the illusion and ignore it completely

[Ravens_cry]

to me it seems something that's mindless wouldn't precieve the illusion and ignore it completely
Depends on the kind of illusion. A mind affecting illusion, it would be immune to, yes. But something that is magical the equivalent of a volumetric display (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volumetric_display), that is, made of real light, they can perceive it just fine.

[SiuiS]

So half the stratagy here, is to use Illusion walls against mindless things, like zombies and make them just stand in one location being no threat to anyone.


IF you are running (more like walking) away from zombies, and you open and then shut a door as you keep running.


Should the zombie treat the door , as simply being a wall segment and no longer give chase?

A zombie is usually portrayed as running into and then battering trough a wall. I would see that happening here.

A zombie without clear line of sight beforehand would treat it as a wall though, yes.

[TuggyNE]

I'd look at the INT score, if it equals that of a dog or cat, they should recognize this particular door after seeing somebody using it. They should not recognize the whole concept of a "door" (weak angles, pickable lock, usable doorknob, exact purpose...). They just know that this thing can open and that their prey is behind it, so they will stand there and scatch / bash the door. If they have no INT score and no memory, they will forget their prey the instant it vanishes from their senses (which may or may not be blocked by a door / wall). If they have an INT score of 2, like a clever dog or cat, well, hope they didn't see how you manipulated the door to open, they could learn a trick.

That's reasonable; dog intelligence tests often include things like hiding a treat while the dog is watching, then taking them out of the area for a minute and seeing if they remember where it is (and many dogs do not), so since zombies have Int -….

[Fouredged Sword]

Consider Golems as well. They commonly have Int of - and can open doors and operate simple items.

I think the distinction is the will behind the animating force. Zombies who are uncontrolled would tend to be less sophisticated than zombies that can controlled by a spellcaster. If instructed to open doors when a door is blocking their way, they would open the doors. I suspect a great deal of time is spent giving unintelligent undead blanket commands to allow them to function in most situations.

[Tylorious]

So half the stratagy here, is to use Illusion walls against mindless things, like zombies and make them just stand in one location being no threat to anyone.


IF you are running (more like walking) away from zombies, and you open and then shut a door as you keep running.


Should the zombie treat the door , as simply being a wall segment and no longer give chase?

It is completely up to the DM, zombies have no intellegence, but they do know where food is and might thrash at any obstacles between them and their prize. They might also not understand that there is an obstacle and just move on to another victim. So many different ways to play out zombies.

[Jergmo]

Zombies have 1 Cha, which means they have no sense of self. They have 10 Wis, which means they can perceive their surroundings as well as a normal person. They have no Int, which means they cannot "think".

Zombies do have basic muscle memory, as shown here:


SRD
A zombie retains all the natural weapons, manufactured weapon attacks, and weapon proficiencies of the base creature. A zombie also gains a slam attack.

I believe opening a door is too complex an idea for them to enact, but they could certainly bash one apart. All they need is motivation to do so. "Well, a zombie doesn't have motivation", you might say.

BUT, a zombie has an "animating spirit", which is Evil. When a PC closes a door in front of the zombie, it will still possess the urge to kill it. It doesn't understand what the PC is - all it knows is it needs to kill it, and there's an obstacle in its path. Therefore, I believe it will bash the door in and continue aimlessly in the direction it was facing in order to kill. ...Depending on the layout it will probably wind up walking into a dead end, though.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I think that zombies and skeletons have the ability to recognize some things around them and react accordingly (human-living being-kill it; dog-living being-kill it; cow-iving being-kill it; table-non living-ignore it; another zombie-non living-ignore it); they have Wisdom 10, and that means they can perceive their surroundings quite well.

So the zombie can probably recognize the door as something that can be bypassed; it probably lacks the intelligence to open the door, but if it hears a potential victim on the other side, it will slam the door until breaking it.

I believe that this is the best answer, and it's pretty much how I treat it in the games that I run.

[Jergmo]

Also, given that it is animated by an Evil spirit, the zombie will probably continue to receive urges to destroy things when a PC doesn't happen to be around. If the shell is standing around doing nothing, the spirit would probably find that maddening... in a sense. It may not be a "thinking" entity the way we are, but it is driven by basic compulsion. It would continue destroying obstacles until it finds something to kill.

[Necroticplague]

Zombies have 1 Cha, which means they have no sense of self.

False, zombies clearly have a crude sense of self, and additionally a CHA 1 indicates they have a sense of self, however tenuous.We know that they have a sense of self because they can distinguish other creatures and objects from themselves.



To answer the main question of the thread, here is the my answer:it depends. The exact nature of undead is not always clear, and even the book on the subject (Libris Mortis) contains several different possibilities. It depends on both how the DM runs it and the exact situation. If their orders involve giving chase, they will do so. Their mind is likely to far gone to use a doorknob, but they will certainly try to go through (and the enterprising necromancer may have programmed them with the action). If they're not under specific orders to do so, I would think they lack the object permanence to think of you once out of sense unless ordered to do so. Also note that their status as mindless entitles them to immunity to phantasms and patterns, but not phantasms or figments (for the illusion wall, likely using figments anyway, though).

[Worira]

Yes, it will treat it like a wall. Zombies do have a notorious animosity for walls, barricades, and anything else between them and the living, though.