Shadowcasters and Mystic Theurge. Cheeze?

[Xuldarinar]

Something that I'm suppress only just occurred to me. It involves advancement via mystic theurge when it comes to the shadowcaster.

Shadowcasters have special rules for mystic theurge, as follows:

Shadowcasters can qualify for the mystic theurge prestige class (DMG 192). In order to do so, they are allowed to substitute the ability to cast 2nd-level mysteries for the ability to cast 2nd-level spells. They must meet all other requirements for the prestige class normally. In addition, if a shadowcaster takes cleric levels to meet the divine spellcasting requirement, he must be devoted to a god that grants access to one of the following domains: Knowledge, Magic, Darkness, or Illusion.

Now, because of these rules, Mystic theurge can be treated as Arcane/Mystery, or Mystery/Divine. But since the rules are not explicit on advancement, only on prerequisites, I have to pose an important question.

Lets say you have a character who is Wizard 3/Shadowcaster 3 and decided to enter mystic theurge. We know you can advance both. But, since mysteries can be advanced by either side in this case, could it be advanced by both?

[WinWin]

Same as other Theurge/Dual progression optimization:

Sha'ir/Mystic Theurge

Spontaneous Divination Wizard/Ultimate Magus

All are valid readings of qualifiers and PrC progression. Unlikely to pass the scrutiny of all but the most permissive of DM's though.

[OldTrees1]

Forgive me if I am blind, where does it give permission to use Mysteries to qualify for the Divine side? Its example is a Cleric Shadowcaster. The Cleric specific clarification would make sense to differentiate it from a Druid Shadowcaster.

[Xuldarinar]

Forgive me if I am blind, where does it give permission to use Mysteries to qualify for the Divine side? Its example is a Cleric Shadowcaster. The Cleric specific clarification would make sense to differentiate it from a Druid Shadowcaster.

I believer it can qualify for either side as it doesnt bring up arcane or divine specifically, with exeption being the mention of cleric.

[Xuldarinar]

On a perhaps much more minor note..

How would it effect game balance to allow mysteries to qualify as arcane and/or divine for other prcs, possibly even allowing them to be advanced by +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and/or +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class?

[Psyren]

I never saw the point of "dual advancement" shenanigans like that. It would never work in-game; all it would accomplish is souring DMs on classes that legitimately can cast X and Y spells.

[Xuldarinar]

I never saw the point of "dual advancement" shenanigans like that. It would never work in-game; all it would accomplish is souring DMs on classes that legitimately can cast X and Y spells.

To me its just an amusing aspect of the game academically, not something to be brought to the table, except perhaps under specific circumstances.

[Chronos]

Shadowcaster can be advanced by the arcane or divine side of Mystic Theurge. It can't be advanced by the arcane and divine sides.

[Anxe]

I don't see anything that prevents it by RAW... Maybe someone else can come up with something, but it looks legit to me.

Course, the DM stopping you has already been mentioned, but it is an interesting oversight in the rules.

[OldTrees1]

I don't see anything that prevents it by RAW... Maybe someone else can come up with something, but it looks legit to me.

Course, the DM stopping you has already been mentioned, but it is an interesting oversight in the rules.

Less interesting if you consider that, unlike Warlocks*, there is no wording letting Mystic Theruge advance Shadowcasting. If you move beyond RAW to establish advancement, then you have moved past RAW.
*Beginning of the PrC section of CA
Edit: I was wrong.

[Karnith]

Less interesting if you consider that, unlike Warlocks*, there is no wording letting Mystic Theruge advance Shadowcasters.
*Beginning of the PrC section of CA
There is such a rule, actually. It's in the section on Shadowcasters and Prestige Classes. Per Tome of Magic:

A prestige class that grants "+1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class" or "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class" does not increase the character's mysteries (again, excepting the mystic theurge under proper conditions).(Emphasis mine)

[Story]

Even by strict RAW though, dual advancement is only one possible interpretation of the rules. It's entirely valid to interpret it so that you only get +1 per level.

[Psyren]

Even by strict RAW though, dual advancement is only one possible interpretation of the rules. It's entirely valid to interpret it so that you only get +1 per level.

Agreed - it says to add it to the divine class and the arcane class, but if they're the same class, you are still doing that even if you only add it once.

[Zubrowka74]

Furthermore, if Shadowcaster counted as the arcanne side and the divine side of the prereq, you wouldn't need a second class. With Cleric/Shadowcaster it counts as arcane, and only arcane; with Wizard/Shadowcaster it counts as divine, and only this. It'a XOR here.

[gorfnab]

On a perhaps much more minor note..

How would it effect game balance to allow mysteries to qualify as arcane and/or divine for other prcs, possibly even allowing them to be advanced by +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class and/or +1 level of existing divine spellcasting class?
It would give Shadowcasters some interesting options. I allow it my games. It doesn't affect their power level too much, maybe bumping them to mid tier 3.