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View Full Version : Please help with an Incantation!



Jergmo
2013-11-01, 12:17 PM
In my campaign, I have been utilizing the Incantation variant from Unearthed Arcana, and am presently working on an Incantation that I'm having a bit of trouble with.

The primary spellcaster of the Incantation provides his or her body as a focus and connects to an Outsider which the spellcaster must be able to name - most likely a deity. Once the Incantation is complete, this Outsider is able to cast one spell through the focus (the primary spellcaster).

My main issue is what school of magic would this fall under? Would it simply act as a Divination?

aeauseth
2013-11-01, 12:47 PM
An unusual incantation/spell. The end result seems similar to a miracle.

Some spells worth referencing:

Imbue with spell ability (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/imbueWithSpellAbility.htm) is Evocation
Wish (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wish.htm) is Universal
Miracle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/miracle.htm) is Evocation


SRD defines Evocation as: Evocation spells manipulate energy or tap an unseen source of power to produce a desired end. In effect, they create something out of nothing. Many of these spells produce spectacular effects, and evocation spells can deal large amounts of damage.

SRD defines Divination as: Divination spells enable you to learn secrets long forgotten, to predict the future, to find hidden things, and to foil deceptive spells.

With the information you provided and my assumption that the end result seems similar to a miracle, I'd likely put the incantation you described into the Evocation school.

Socratov
2013-11-01, 01:01 PM
I'd say it woudl fall under conjuration. Now without going into details on how broke Conjuration allready is, you effectively call forth a being's essence or something similar through the focus that is the primary spellcaster. The spell you request form the outsider woudl fall into it's own school (often supplied with the spell or spell the spell like ability references). It sounds messy, but in my opinion it fits the bill so to speak.

Jergmo
2013-11-01, 01:05 PM
So, essentially, it would be equivalent to a 9th level spell (comparing it to Miracle) as an Evocation. The information for an Evocation Incantation (via d20srd) is as follows:

Evocation

DC 34; Range: Medium; Area: 5-ft.-wide bolt or 20-ft.-radius burst; Duration: Instantaneous; Saving Throw: Reflex half; Spell Resistance: Yes.

If it is intended to allow the deity to cast a spell that targets a single creature, would this simply mean that the spell can be cast at a Medium range on any creature within a 20-ft. radius?

Edit for Socratov: Wouldn't Conjuration imply that the deity itself is being summoned?

Edit again for a note: Adding a second spell school increased the DC by one-third of the secondary school's DC.

Would it then be most accurate to say it is both a Divination and an Evocation, in order to establish contact with another entity?

Sith_Happens
2013-11-01, 01:08 PM
I'd say it woudl fall under conjuration. Now without going into details on how broke Conjuration allready is, you effectively call forth a being's essence or something similar through the focus that is the primary spellcaster. The spell you request form the outsider woudl fall into it's own school (often supplied with the spell or spell the spell like ability references). It sounds messy, but in my opinion it fits the bill so to speak.

Yeah, this sounds a lot like a funky Calling spell. Though I'd make it dual-school Conjuration and Transmutation, since it also functions a lot like the Channel Celestial line of spells from BoED which are Transmutation.

EDIT: Then again, Cleric Evocations tend to be a lot different (and closer to this) in nature than Sorcerer/Wizard Evocations, and this Incantation is much more Cleric-y than Wizard-y.

Red Fel
2013-11-01, 01:31 PM
I would agree with Evocation.

Conjuration means you're calling some thing into existence. This spell, as described, isn't creating a thing, it's channeling an effect. It's allowing Thing X, in Some Other Place, to influence matters in This Place.

That said, depending on the types of effects that can be so channeled, I might instead type it as Universal, or even effect-dependent. For example, Fireball is an Evocation spell. If this spell causes whatever Outsider Patron to channel fire through the caster, that's Evocation. If instead it allows the Outsider Patron to create something - say a ritual circle of stones - through the caster, that's Conjuration. If it allows the Outsider Patron to turn an ordinary pool of water into some sort of scrying pool so that the caster can communicate with his Patron, Divination. And so forth.

But the concept as you described? Outsider channels an effect through the caster? Evocation.

Jergmo
2013-11-01, 01:35 PM
This is what I have based on the responses so far, open to further critique.

Channel
Divination, Evocation
Effective Level: 9th
Skill Check: Knowledge (arcana) 31, 6 successes; knowledge (religion) 31, 3 successes
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 90 minutes
Range: Close
Target: 10-ft.-radius burst
Duration: 9 rounds; instantaneous.
Saving Throw: See text
Spell Resistance: Yes

This powerful Incantation opens a direct link to an Outsider, typically a deity, allowing the casters to provide a focus through which the linked entity may cast a spell or use a supernatural ability on targets in the Material Plane. The link lasts for nearly one minute before it destabilizes, or until a spell or supernatural ability is cast through the link.

Backlash Component
Primary and extra casters gain a negative level.

Extra Casters
Two required; the spellcasters contribute some of their life force in order to create the link.

Base DC 42
-1 for multiple skills
-2 for medium to close
-3 for halving area
-2 for minutes to rounds
-2 caster gains a negative level
-1 backlash affects secondary casters too

Red Fel
2013-11-01, 01:43 PM
You seem to be the only one who thinks it's a Divination, and you haven't really explained how.

Divinations are about learning things. Scrying on subjects to learn what they're doing. Speaking with deities to learn what they know. Peering into the future to learn what will come.

This spell doesn't seem to involve the acquisition of any form of knowledge. It simply involves "borrowing" the powers of some Outsider. In many ways, it's like a poor man's Cleric casting, except that it's high-level, requires an elaborate casting time, and doesn't really place a limit on the effect to be produced.

Now, let's look at how it can be abused. I see several bits of language.

1: It says "spell or supernatural ability". This would seem to exclude salient abilities. Does it? It seems that this could be a cheap, dirty way to reproduce an ordinary spell at obscenely epic CL (for instance, find a deity who can cast a Maximized Quickened Expanded Delayed Silenced Stilled Selective Fireball at CL 40). And it does this without an XP component, which is arguably the only thing that keeps spells like Wish in check.

2: It says "the linked entity may". Does that mean the entity can refuse? Are we assuming such entities are friendly, generous, and willing to give you a freebie just for 90 minutes of your time?

Jergmo
2013-11-01, 01:46 PM
The reason I include Divination is in order to establish a link with the entity itself; for example, Contact Other Plane (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contactOtherPlane.htm). The entity is not under obligation to do anything for the spellcasters - essentially, the purpose of the Incantation is to allow the followers of a deity or Outsider to assist it in carrying out its agenda on the Material plane.

The Divination aspect of it is essentially a phone call to their god.

For example, the main purpose in designing this Incantation was to allow the Evil deity in a dualistic pantheon to spread a plague it personally crafted among mortals.

Jergmo
2013-11-01, 03:49 PM
Thank you to everyone for your input - it made things a lot more sensible.