Build Challenge for the Playground

[Mountain]

Optimize an unoptimized concept.

In an upcoming campaign, I happen to have considerably more playing experience than the other players, so to prevent completely overshadowing them, I decided to build a character with built-in weaknesses.

The campaign is Forgotten Realms. All books are likely available. No Dragon Magazine (unless it was later printed in a book.)

I decided to make the character a Fey'ri (RoF, LA+2), and not a spellcaster (probably swordsage or warblade).

Help me make this not suck. :smallbiggrin:

[ChaoticDitz]

Optimize an unoptimized concept.

In an upcoming campaign, I happen to have considerably more playing experience than the other players, so to prevent completely overshadowing them, I decided to build a character with built-in weaknesses.

The campaign is Forgotten Realms. All books are likely available. No Dragon Magazine (unless it was later printed in a book.)

I decided to make the character a Fey'ri (RoF, LA+2), and not a spellcaster (probably swordsage or warblade).

Help me make this not suck. :smallbiggrin:

Wait, wait, so you want built-in suck, but not actual suck? :smallannoyed: Make up your mind. Anyway, as is the common method of a particular favorite Playgrounder of mine, I'm going to recommend Dragonfire Adept for everything, this included. I'd have recommended Dragonfire Adept as well for double breath cheese, but then you lose most of the few positives in being Fey'ri. Anyway, Dragonfire Adept is helpful across levels, will scale decently even though you're two levels behind, and metabreath feats are just cool (though your Con isn't quite built for breathing...) And thanks to your invocations, you're basically a more awesome but less versatile Warlock while you wait for your breath to recharge. I like that class quite a bit ^_^ And it's far from being the caster, but if it feels too similar to you, the next best thing would probably be a self-heal Crusader or Swordsage. No Warblade; literally the entirety of the Warblade's coolness comes from looking forward to the capstone, IMHO. Oh, and full BAB... But meh.

As for builds? I'm not skilled enough for this. *pushes responsibility on somebody else*

[Red Fel]

Optimize an unoptimized concept.

In an upcoming campaign, I happen to have considerably more playing experience than the other players, so to prevent completely overshadowing them, I decided to build a character with built-in weaknesses.

The campaign is Forgotten Realms. All books are likely available. No Dragon Magazine (unless it was later printed in a book.)

I decided to make the character a Fey'ri (RoF, LA+2), and not a spellcaster (probably swordsage or warblade).

Help me make this not suck. :smallbiggrin:

Okay. Let's see.

First, will this campaign allow LA buyoff? If not, we can basically disregard capstone abilities, since you won't be getting to level 20. (Not that most campaigns get there anyway.)

Now, let's look at your stats. +2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Con makes for a fairly good Warblade, due to the Int synergy. The Con will hurt, but not much. As a side note, because of the Elven Blood feature, one could argue that a Fey'ri qualifies for the Eternal Blade PrC, easily one of the best PrCs in ToB. From the fact that your LA is +2, it appears you're not taking Dimension Door, Enervation, or DR 10/+1. That's fine; you can get similar effects from Maneuvers anyway. I would suggest taking the bonus to saves against poison, since poison is a pretty easy way to mess up an unsuspecting character and ruin their ability scores, but the rest of those SLAs are pretty much up to you; most of them tend to be more social or tactical than directly combat-based anyway.

So let's say you go Warblade. This is a class with a high floor and a low ceiling. It's hard to go wrong with it. So you say you want to melee. What do you want to be doing? Critfishing? Striking single targets for massive damage? Or just laying waste to everything in the immediate vicinity? This will determine feat and maneuver selection, so you'd better decide upfront.

[Mountain]

Wait, wait, so you want built-in suck, but not actual suck?


You're right. I should clarify.

I want a solid character, playable from first level to about 16-18th (where this DM's campaigns usually end). I just want to handicap him in such a way as to not be incredibly more powerful than the rest of the party.

The idea is this: start with a really bad character, and then level him into something pretty powerful, but not Tier 1 powerful.

[Mountain]

This will determine feat and maneuver selection, so you'd better decide upfront.

I'm not really sure what I'm even looking for. Hopefully, I'll see something posted here that inspires my creativity. :smallsmile:

It's more of a collaborative character-building thing.

[Red Fel]

I'm not really sure what I'm even looking for. Hopefully, I'll see something posted here that inspires my creativity. :smallsmile:

It's more of a collaborative character-building thing.

Well, I like melee characters and I like ToB, so I'm going to suggest starting there. That said, there are so many directions in which you can take Warblade - you can be the White Raven tactical commander, which goes extremely well in a party of melee-types and really helps the rest of the party shine; you can shred face with Tiger Claw, and fish for critsplosions for fun and profit; you can be an incarnation of awesomeness with Iron Heart. I'd ordinarily suggest Diamond Mind, and indeed I will here, but be conscious of the fact that it requires Concentration checks, which will be hindered by your Constitution penalty. But having all three Diamond Mind save-counters basically makes you immune to anything requiring a save.

Basically, your preferred play style, along with your party composition, will help determine what kind of build you want. I still recommend Warblade, and Eternal Blade if your DM will allow it. I also recommend looking into LA buyoff.

Unless you can tell me what sort of melee build you want, though, I'm going to just quietly point in this direction (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176968).

[Mountain]

I definitely need to re-read the ToB class handbooks. Oh, and to clarify an earlier point, Fey'ri specifically states that it qualifies as an elf for PRCs and feats. It is still mostly an elf, after all.

[Talya]

Fey'ri are planetouched. By RAW, you can use the Lesser Planetouched option in the player's guide to Faerun. This makes them LA+0 at the sole expense of losing their outsider status.

Then just make a damn warblade/eternal blade.

[Averis Vol]

Fey'ri are planetouched. By RAW, you can use the Lesser Planetouched option in the player's guide to Faerun. This makes them LA+0 at the sole expense of losing their outsider status.

Then just make a damn warblade/eternal blade.

except he doesn't want an insane build so he doesn't overshadow the newer players (A good way to play it for sure)

as for your build, if it's for a low power game, just go straight warblade; they're competent enough at base to carry a party if necessary, but they can be played like a fighter with a few neat tricks (take feats to get utility maneuvers if necessary)

[Mountain]

Fey'ri are planetouched. By RAW, you can use the Lesser Planetouched option in the player's guide to Faerun. This makes them LA+0 at the sole expense of losing their outsider status.

Then just make a damn warblade/eternal blade.

Normally, I would definitely do this, and throw on a 1/day Dimension Door SLA because I can. As Averis said though, I'm trying not to overshadow everyone else (which is what happened in our last game).

I thought about using a falchion (or any 18-20 2h weapon) and going for loads of criticals with loads of power attack. He would be extremely good at one thing, without being irrelevant in every other situation.

I've never built anything like this before, so how would this work?

[Averis Vol]

Well, seeing as the character is essentially an elf, I'd choose which subrace it is and go from there.

I'd assume the layout would be something like:

Wood elf: Iron heart focused
Wild elf: Tiger claw focused
High/Grey elf: Diamond mind focused
Snow elf:....I wanna say stone dragon seeing as they're hardier then other elves
Drow: shadow hand focused (So swordsage)

If I was in a fluff heavy game I'd start with that, and just choose maneuvers based by that scale. As for feats and weapons, a crit fisher will dominate in combat against most enemies, and that can be a problem if combat is a big part of your game. So, just keep that in mind, not really a big deal, and I'd probably put a secondary focus on white raven so you can be more of a team player. If the game is heavily out of combat focused, your build naturally falls off. I would suggest taking on a body guard position to one of the other characters so you can have a purpose that, 1) holds true to your warrior roots and 2) will let you play a back seat advisor type, because while they have diplomacy, warblades aren't great face characters. But you can put your knowledge of tactics and such to use while advising.

hope that jumbled bunch of thoughts helped.

[Doc_Maynot]

So, you want a character that starts slow, but later gets good without outshining anyone and basically just don't want access to high level spells?

With the bonus dex and int and with the +2 you could go with a
Factotum 5/Chameleon 2/Factotum +3/Chameleon +8 Progression
If your DM allows you to ignore the human requirements for Chameleon that is.

Edit: And possibly take the feat Academic Priest at first level to allow you to use Int as your stat for preparing spells. If you want to use them atleast. The PrC does give you access to more options.

[Red Fel]

Normally, I would definitely do this, and throw on a 1/day Dimension Door SLA because I can. As Averis said though, I'm trying not to overshadow everyone else (which is what happened in our last game).

I thought about using a falchion (or any 18-20 2h weapon) and going for loads of criticals with loads of power attack. He would be extremely good at one thing, without being irrelevant in every other situation.

I've never built anything like this before, so how would this work?

You're contradicting yourself, mate.

You want to be narrowly focused on criticals, but not irrelevant in other situations. You want to pour on massive damage, but not outshine the other party members.

I can't read minds, chief, but I can tell when one is muddled.

Let me suggest a different tactic, still using ToB. Just answer the following question: Will your party have lots of melee-types in it?

If your answer is yes, White Raven is the answer to your prayers. As has been mentioned, a focus on White Raven maneuvers will enable you to help your melee-type friends shine, without requiring you to take center stage. It enables you, as an experienced player, to make tactical decisions on behalf of the party, but to let the party members - specifically the melees - show off and contribute in a more direct fashion.

If your answer is no, consider investing more heavily in boosts and counters. As opposed to strikes, which will make your other party members weep in futile impotence, boosts and counters offer a subtler way to augment your abilities. As mentioned, Diamond Mind save-counters keep you afloat. Iron Heart tricks like Wall of Blades allow you to parry rays, but don't cause you to make enemies spontaneously combust. Iron Heart Strike an AMF away - your casters will love you for it. Basically, by favoring boosts and counters (and the occasional tactical maneuver) over strikes, your benefits are more passive and reactive, meaning that your attacks don't become overwhelming.

On the other hand, if you're the only melee in the party, why not live it up? Optimize your Warblade. A high-op Warblade can almost keep pace with a low-op caster.

Again, you say you're "trying not to overshadow everyone else," but unless we know what everyone else is playing, we don't know where to set the bar.

[nedz]

We have had 50 IC contests which should provide 1,000+ such builds. Just take your pick.

[Vaz]

Being fair, many of them have builds that do Outshine "standard fare" builds. Things like Parsifal the fool, etc.

There are three classes I recommend for someone wanting to play a midtier; and that is Ardent (Complete Psi), Bard (PHB plus nearly every splat in existence) and Incarnate (Incarnum). I've yet to play a DFA so cannot comment on it.

All can contribute to whatever build or role your party needs (with the exception of main combat brute; but even then an Ardent can do that with Metamorphosis if you need it to. Without actually "building" anything you can make effective choices and then at the next level, focus in something else your party needs.

[Mountain]

You're contradicting yourself, mate.


Not really. You can build a character who is very good at one thing without him sucking at everything else. Also, being a melee monster does not mean overshadowing the rest of the party. There is more than combat to most DnD games.

[Deox]

Incarnate - get the ability to do anything you need to do. All day. Every day. Bind / Mix to taste. Extremely large numbers of combinations and all will make you relevant in a given situation.

[Vaz]

Not really. You can build a character who is very good at one thing without him sucking at everything else. Also, being a melee monster does not mean overshadowing the rest of the party. There is more than combat to most DnD games.

How you define 'really well' is potentially different from what the forum possibly considers 'really well'; a Disciple of Dispater Lightning Mace Kukri build is pushing out around 90% of every full attack round an attack which generates more attacks, which generates more ad-infinitum.

However, it has a dumped mental stats, meaning that it is unlikely to see the Goalkeeper at the other side of a football foeld, its social skills are in the dirt, and short and it is unlikely to be able to tell the difference between a zombie and a Dragon.

[Ruethgar]

I would second Doc's Factotum Chameleon honestly... though I personally couldn't help but adding fey bloodline for early chameleon entry.

[Callin]

Well you could always go the Fey'ri Mystic Ranger SoAO Archer route as something that can hold its own but not really overshadow the party unless you optimize for it.