Just a feat for fighting large enemies. (3.5)

[Iryanmadayana]

Since the sort of feat I was searching for doesn't seem to exist, and the closest approximation I found had both a different fluff and very narrow race limitations, my DM said he would allow me to homebrew an appropriate feat, if I could make it balanced, flavorful etc. Since I am not exactly very experienced with DnD, I would like to ask for thoughts and criticisms.

Topple the Towers [General]

You are experienced in combating larger foes, and know just what to do to put them off-balance.

Prerequisites: STR 15, at least one of either Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun, or Improved Trip.
Benefits: Enemies of one or more size categories larger than yourself are treated as one category smaller than they actually are for the purpose of bull rushes, overrunning, and tripping, whenever it is advantageous to you. This means larger enemies take a -4 penalty on opposed checks during these maneuvers, and you are able to execute these maneuvers on enemies one size category larger than you normally would be able to.
Normal: You can only bull rush, overrun and trip opponents of one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller.
Special: A fighter or monk may take this feat as one of their bonus feats.
Topple the Towers [General]

You are experienced in combating larger foes, and know just what to do to put them off-balance.

Prerequisites: BAB +5, Improved Bull Rush or Improved Overrun or Improved Trip.
Benefits: Enemies of one or more size categories larger than yourself are treated as one category smaller than they actually are for the purpose of bull rushes, overrunning, and tripping, whenever it is advantageous to you. This means larger enemies take a -4 penalty on opposed checks during these maneuvers, and you are able to execute these maneuvers on enemies one size category larger than you normally would be able to.
Normal: You can only bull rush, overrun and trip opponents of one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller.
Special: A fighter may take this feat as one of their bonus feats.
A monk may take this feat as a bonus feat at 6th level, even if they do not meet the prerequisites.

The idea, flavor and purpose should all hopefully be evident from the feat itself, but I am willing to explain if necessary.
My biggest concerns are currently (a) power level and (b) making the wording a little more easy to digest.

So yeah. What are your thoughts? :smallsmile:

[Amnoriath]

Since the sort of feat I was searching for doesn't seem to exist, and the closest approximation I found had both a different fluff and very narrow race limitations, my DM said he would allow me to homebrew an appropriate feat, if I could make it balanced, flavorful etc. Since I am not exactly very experienced with DnD, I would like to ask for thoughts and criticisms.

Topple the Towers [General]

You are experienced in combating larger foes, and know just what to do to put them off-balance.

Prerequisites: STR 15, at least one of either Improved Bull Rush, Improved Overrun, or Improved Trip.
Benefits: Enemies of one or more size categories larger than yourself are treated as one category smaller than they actually are for the purpose of bull rushes, overrunning, and tripping, whenever it is advantageous to you. This means larger enemies take a -4 penalty on opposed checks during these maneuvers, and you are able to execute these maneuvers on enemies one size category larger than you normally would be able to.
Normal: You can only bull rush, overrun and trip opponents of one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller.
Special: A fighter or monk may take this feat as one of their bonus feats.


The idea, flavor and purpose should all hopefully be evident from the feat itself, but I am willing to explain if necessary.
My biggest concerns are currently (a) power level and (b) making the wording a little more easy to digest.

So yeah. What are your thoughts? :smallsmile:
It is simple and nothing overpowered at all, the monk special is actually a nice touch. The problem is that it really is just a size canceller. Flavor wise while suggests small foes upending the cumbersome oafs that fact is small characters aren't incentivised at all to take it. Functionally your bigger melee character's are because they are still going to be smaller than a lot of monsters but they will still have the option of increased reach which small characters lose out on. If anything the feat needs some kind of special maneuver that would be advantageous for small characters.

[drew2u]

I had a homebrew feat similar to this but only applied to races of "Small" or smaller size categories.
With that I played a Gnome Monk and dominated; it was all kinds of awesome.

[Iryanmadayana]

The feat was not actually thought to be only for small characters (in fact, the character I want to use it for is medium sized). The concept of toppling over enemies much larger than you can apply no matter which size you are (well, unless you are already gargantuan, I suppose). Though yeah, for small characters, the reach issue is something I had not considered. Furthermore, I suppose that for small characters (and monks in particular here) STR 15 is actually a pretty tough requirement, considering that afaik all small races without LA get a penalty. I should probably replace or remove that prerequisite then...

Well, in case of a bull rush or overrun, the prerequisite improved (x) already means that your charge at the enemy doesn't provoke AoOs, no matter the enemy's reach...
Would you have a suggestion as to what the bonus for small characters would be? A dodge-bonus to AC against AoOs from larger enemies? Against attacks from squares you do not threaten yourself?

[Amnoriath]

The feat was not actually thought to be only for small characters (in fact, the character I want to use it for is medium sized). The concept of toppling over enemies much larger than you can apply no matter which size you are (well, unless you are already gargantuan, I suppose). Though yeah, for small characters, the reach issue is something I had not considered. Furthermore, I suppose that for small characters (and monks in particular here) STR 15 is actually a pretty tough requirement, considering that afaik all small races without LA get a penalty. I should probably replace or remove that prerequisite then...

Well, in case of a bull rush or overrun, the prerequisite improved (x) already means that your charge at the enemy doesn't provoke AoOs, no matter the enemy's reach...
Would you have a suggestion as to what the bonus for small characters would be? A dodge-bonus to AC against AoOs from larger enemies? Against attacks from squares you do not threaten yourself?
1. Well, don't worry about Monks. While as a full level 20 class they lack an overall strategy they don't need to qualify for their bonus feats in the class itself. Optimally what people would do is take the Passive Way monk variant to get Combat Expertise automatically then use the level 1 feat for Improved Trip. Then at level 2 they would replace the automatic Improved Trip with this. It is why I said having it as a monk bonus feat was a nice touch.
2. You could just have a flat dodge bonus and make it after a successful trip..etc. I would just be sure to specify small or less and the foe be at least one size larger.
3. Prerequisities just make it like a BAB +3. It shows you have a little experience and just requires a little patience to qualify.

[Network]

I like this feat. Do you mind if I copy it for a compilation of fighter bonus feats? Don't worry; I'll post the link to this thread if you let me do it.

On an unrelated side note, given that monks do not choose the order of their bonus feats, I think this feat should only be an option for them at a specific level, such as 6th level.

[Iryanmadayana]

...so I looked up stuff, and... from what I am reading, small-sized creatures get the same reach when using a reach weapon as medium-sized creatures would. I guess this makes the addition you described unnecessary, except maybe for discussing tiny characters, who a) are quite rare and b) would already be disincentivized from a career as a tripper/rusher/overrunner so much that this feat would hardly change anything, as far as I can tell. Unless there are further balance-concerns, I think the new version would thusly look like this:
Topple the Towers [General]

You are experienced in combating larger foes, and know just what to do to put them off-balance.

Prerequisites: BAB +5, Improved Bull Rush or Improved Overrun or Improved Trip.
Benefits: Enemies of one or more size categories larger than yourself are treated as one category smaller than they actually are for the purpose of bull rushes, overrunning, and tripping, whenever it is advantageous to you. This means larger enemies take a -4 penalty on opposed checks during these maneuvers, and you are able to execute these maneuvers on enemies one size category larger than you normally would be able to.
Normal: You can only bull rush, overrun and trip opponents of one size category larger than you, the same size, or smaller.
Special: A fighter may take this feat as one of their bonus feats.
A monk may take this feat as a bonus feat at 6th level, even if they do not meet the prerequisites.


I like this feat. Do you mind if I copy it for a compilation of fighter bonus feats? Don't worry; I'll post the link to this thread if you let me do it.I don't mind at all, heh. And thanks, I'm glad you like it. :smallsmile:

[Amnoriath]

Except when subject to any size increase, remember there are quite a few huge opponents.