No magic, high psionics? (3.5)

[gurgleflep]

So, I've got the idea for a campaign using absolutely no magic in it but with a whole load of psionics and such and I'm curious as to how well something like this would work out. I understand the psionics system more than magic and that's one of the primary reasons for wanting to do this.

Also, while I'm already asking about it, are there any options that could "replace" the spellcasters? Maybe a variant that uses psionics like a psionic cleric, bard, or paladin? I'm fine with using third party and homebrew, just none of the magazines due to a lack of access.

Edit: oh, and it would be a steampunk like campaign, so guns and some other appropriate mumbo jumbo.

[Kevingway]

You'd be better off just using the no casting variants of those classes than trying to convert them to psionics. I know that for the ranger and paladin, Complete Warrior (and I think Complete Champion) can provide something you want.

[gurgleflep]

I'd forgotten about the non-casting variants. Great suggestion, thanks for that :smallsmile:

[The-Mage-King]

Here. (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/) The single greatest resource for such a desire.


Ranger? Check.

Healer? Check.

Archer? CHECK.

[Manly Man]

Crusader and Swordsage (or possibly Warblade) can help with replacing the Paladin and Ranger respectively (take a level or two of Fighter for the bonus feats if you'd like to get a Swordsage that could use bows properly). As for the rest of them, there're the options that were just presented by TMK to consider as well.

[Pluto!]

Dreamscarred Press has a bunch of really cool 3.5 psionic material here (http://dsp-d20-srd.wikidot.com/) (including a pretty basic Bard variant, a healing/buffing class, a shapeshifting class and some other stuff) and a bunch of just as cool Pathfinder stuff here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed) (to be honest, I'm not sure what's in there beyond their PF update to psionics basics). I believe both can work in 3.5 without much trouble.

There's also Complete Psionic, which tried to add analogs for the Cleric and Paladin (/Bard? ... Divine Mind was a silly class), so you might check that out. But to be honest, it's just less good than some of the third party add-ons.

It might be kind of weird, but you can also check out some of Ernir's sweet homebrew here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194002) that basically casts Clerics and Wizards in psionics mechanics. But that's kind of funky in the same way as an English translation of a French translation of Dickens.


EDIT: Actually, the better source of WotC-published psionic support is their Mind's Eye Article series. Note that before April 2004, the articles reference the 3.0 psionics system, which isn't always backward-compatible.

[Eldest]

Oh lookie here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194002)

[Blueiji]

Psionics and steampunk? Sounds awesome. :smallbiggrin:

One issue is a deflation of "cast-y" class options. There's about 20 different classes that use vancian casting, and only 3 that use psionics. Perhaps adding some homebrew classes could remedy this? Demented One's Avatar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75448) is pretty great, as is the material from the DSP wiki someone already provided a link to.

Another issue is the Facototum, which utilizes magic in a non-traditional way. This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75478) psionic variant might help, because it would be a shame to just ditch such a cool class.

Gnomes, Drow, and any other race with SLAs would also have to be reworked, or removed.

Binder also can replicate certain spells as SLAs, so it would have to be edited slightly to utilize psionics instead.

[gurgleflep]

Wow, this got a lot more comments than I thought it would for how late in the day/early in the morning I posted it :smalleek: Thank you all for the links and suggestions, I'll begin reading through them now :smallbiggrin:

Also, on the DSP SRD, the "morphean" doesn't link to anything. What is it?

[Feint's End]

As mentioned using the PF psionics classes will solve pretty much all problems. The rest you can get via homebrew. Probably I'll come back later and give some more suggestions ..... in a hurry now.

[avr]

One more thought. Secrets of Sarlona is an Eberron book covering a rather repressive psionic empire. It might be worth a look.

[Katana1515]

Would second looking at dreamscarred presses pathfinder offerings.
linked here!
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes

The Vitalist can comfortably cover the healer/buffer role without being boring to play.
Tacticians again provide lots of cool ways to buff the party (something that the psion struggles to do if i remember correctly).
the cryptic looks interesting if you want a psionic rogue but I can not claim to have seen one played.
The Marksman on the other hand makes a solid replacement for the Archer Ranger.
And between their fix for the soulknife (which is about 5 times better than the original) the Aegis and psychic warrior you have plenty of choices for Melee players.
Obviously with the mundane classes thrown in too your players should have plenty of choice. If they really want to play something different maybe point them towards Incarnum? I always find the fluff of Psionics and Incarnum works well together.

[gurgleflep]

As mentioned using the PF psionics classes will solve pretty much all problems. The rest you can get via homebrew. Probably I'll come back later and give some more suggestions ..... in a hurry now.

I look forward to seeing your suggestions :smallsmile: take your time though I don't want you feeling rushed and such :smalleek:


One more thought. Secrets of Sarlona is an Eberron book covering a rather repressive psionic empire. It might be worth a look.

I'll see if a friend at the hobby shop has a copy I can look through, so far they've been pretty good about setting specific books like that. Thanks for the tip :smallbiggrin:


Snipped for size, see previous comment

Thanks for pointing out which classes can replace which and all the other suggestions, that's pretty helpful :smallsmile:

[Feint's End]

Katana1515 has covered most. There are some other gems like Aegis (very flexible melee class) or Dread and if you use the alternate classfeatures the possiblities more than double for all classes.

I'll just add on the Cryptic. The Cryptic is less roguey but still a very strong skillmonkey. More into manipulating the world (traps, enemies, locks) with their uniqute view on the world. Also they have some decent cc with their Disrupt Pattern Ability and the right insights. 5ft radius cc is pretty decent if spamable.

If a group asked me to play a skillmonkey I'd pretty much always go with a Cryptic. .... oh and they are pretty awesome in knowledge focus too!

[gurgleflep]

I like the sound of the cryptic, a skill monkey that's not a rogue is always interesting and the name's awesome to boot :smalltongue: Thanks for the pointers and such.

Thanks everybody, you've all been very helpful :smallbiggrin:

[Feint's End]

You're welcome ... lets us know if you need more suggestions or help. You can also PM me if you need specific info on 3.P Psionics.

[gurgleflep]

I do have a few more questions. Here's a bulleted list for the sake of having a bulleted list :smalltongue:

How can I convert SLAs over to psionics, or would it be easier just to make a racial equivalent that uses psionic versions of the spells?
How will the party (and world in general) get around not having magical items?
Other than the d20 Past, are there any good steampunk-ish books out there? It's basically just guns in there.


For now, that's about it as far as questions go. I'm a bit out of it right now, lack of sleep.

[erikun]

Is there any reason the party would not have psionic items? Because while you may not see the same magical items, psionics is perfectly capable of crafting enhanced powered equipment as well magic can.

[Essence_of_War]

How can I convert SLAs over to psionics, or would it be easier just to make a racial equivalent that uses psionic versions of the spells?

Psionics supports "Psi-Like Abilities (PLAs)". They work very much like SLAs:

From the SRD (emphasis mine)

Psi-Like Abilities
Most psionic monsters have some number of psi-like abilities. These are very similar to spell-like abilities. Naturally, they are psionic and work just like powers or spells. A creature with psi-like abilities does not pay for these abilities with power points and does not pay any XP cost associated with manifesting the power the ability duplicates.

Psi-like abilities do not work in a null psionics field and are subject to power resistance if the power or spell the ability duplicates would be subject to power resistance. A psi-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A psi-like ability that can be used at will has no use limit. Using a psi-like ability is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so while threatened provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a Concentration check to use a psi-like ability defensively and avoid provoking attacks of opportunity, just as when using a power or casting a spell. A psi-like ability can be interrupted just as a spell can be. Psi-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

All creatures with psi-like abilities are assigned a manifester level, which indicates how difficult it is to dispel their psi-like effects and determines all level-dependent variables (such as range or duration) the abilities might have. When a creature uses a psi-like ability, the power is manifested as if the creature had spent a number of power points equal to its manifester level, which may augment the power to improve its damage or save DC. However, the creature does not actually spend power points for its psi-like abilities, even if it has a power point reserve due to racial abilities, class levels, or some other psionic ability.

The DC of a saving throw (if applicable) against a creature’s psi-like ability is 10 + the level of the power or spell the ability duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier. Remember to check the power’s Augment entry to see if the creature’s manifester level (and thus the effective power point expenditure) increases the DC of the saving throw. Changes to the effect’s save DC, damage, and so on are noted in the psi-like ability entry.

So if you have a specific monster that you like that has a specific SLA for which there is no psionic equivalent, you can just make up the power, and make up an augmentation rule for it.


How will the party (and world in general) get around not having magical items?

They'll have psionic items, seriously, psionics and magic really aren't THAT different. :smalltongue:

[gurgleflep]

Psionics supports "Psi-Like Abilities (PLAs)". They work very much like SLAs:

From the SRD (emphasis mine)


So if you have a specific monster that you like that has a specific SLA for which there is no psionic equivalent, you can just make up the power, and make up an augmentation rule for it.



They'll have psionic items, seriously, psionics and magic really aren't THAT different. :smalltongue:

Well that answers the SLA -> PSA question rather nicely, thanks :smallbiggrin:

Are too, psionics are easier to understand :smallwink:
Also, there seems to be a lot less psionic items in comparison to the magic item list, that was one of my bigger worries.

[The-Mage-King]

Also, there seems to be a lot less psionic items in comparison to the magic item list, that was one of my bigger worries.

Magic Item Compendium basically says "You can make Psionic versions of magic items if you've got a (roughly) equivalent power", so...


That, and/or Psionic Artificer from Magic of Eberron should be fine in terms of gear.

[Ruethgar]

Erudite with Psionic Chameleon adaptation just went from good to awesome. Grab all the effects that went away with magic(like Mental Pinnacle).

[gurgleflep]

Magic Item Compendium basically says "You can make Psionic versions of magic items if you've got a (roughly) equivalent power", so...


That, and/or Psionic Artificer from Magic of Eberron should be fine in terms of gear.

I'll be honest, I didn't know the Magic Item Compendium had that in it. I saw "Magic" and kinda assumed "NOPE! Nothin' psionic in here!"
Didn't ever think about looking through it though either, so... *cough*

Also, yay for artificer! Those guys come in pretty handy.