Animate Dead and outsiders

[Randomocity132]

I haven't seen anything that says otherwise, but can you animate a dead outsider as a skeleton? Perhaps a Hellhound or a Nightmare?

[CyberThread]

everything that has a skeleton you can animate

[Silva Stormrage]

As Cyberdrag stated yes. If an outsider has a skeleton you can animate it, thus nightmares are fine, incorporeal outsiders are not.

[ShurikVch]

Yes, you can. Libris Mortis have skeletons of outsiders.

nightmares are fine, incorporeal outsiders are not. Why? It will be an incorporeal skeletons! :smallsmile:

[DeltaEmil]

Yes, you can. Libris Mortis have skeletons of outsiders.
Why? It will be an incorporeal skeletons! :smallsmile:Because of this.

"Skeleton" is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal creature (other than an undead) that has a skeletal system (referred to hereafter as the base creature). Also, you can't make a vampire or a lich into a zombie or a skeleton.

[ShurikVch]

Because of this.
Trait Removal the incorporeality away, then make a skeleton. Incorporeality will be back after 1 hour/level.


Also, you can't make a vampire or a lich into a zombie or a skeleton.
Technically you can in a number of ways:
1. Resurrect, then kill and make a skeleton
2. Undead with feat Human Heritage count as humanoid(human) and thus completely legal material to skeleton making.
3. Any class or template which change a base creature type (unless a new type is 'undead', 'construct' or 'deathless') will allow to make a skeleton out of undead which have it

[Thrudd]

Because of this.
Also, you can't make a vampire or a lich into a zombie or a skeleton.

Why not? So you kill the lich, it's a pile of humanoid bones, then you raise it as a skeleton. It has no lich powers, just like any animated skeleton. A vampire that is killed is just a dead body which will quickly deteriorate, if the sun burned him it might be a skeleton or a pile of ashes. So you raise the body as a zombie or skeleton, again nothing special about it. Or is there like a cosmic Double Jeopardy law, the same body can't be made undead twice? lol

[Spore]

Just remember: Some outsiders get banished upon death, and in some cosmologies, the only remains that stay, are destroyed by paladins and holy powers. They stay, but are in the same condition like destroyed undead.

[Thanatosia]

Pluss, I thought the in-game lore is that Nightshades are undead Fiends.

[Thanatosia]

Or is there like a cosmic Double Jeopardy law, the same body can't be made undead twice? lol
I actually do think this is the case, I do remember reading somewhere that undead cannot be revived as other undead.

[Urpriest]

Pluss, I thought the in-game lore is that Nightshades are undead Fiends.

Nightmare, not Nightshade.

Some demons and devils explode upon death, depending on setting, so you'd need to be careful about that. Perhaps vivisection plus a pile of quintessence...

[Karnith]

I actually do think this is the case, I do remember reading somewhere that undead cannot be revived as other undead.
The bodies of skeletons and zombies can't be (re-)animated after their destruction, per the Animate Dead (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateDead.htm) spell description, but I don't recall a general rule about it.

[hamishspence]

Nightmare, not Nightshade.
Nightmares are just Fiends.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm

Nightshades, according to the Birth of the Dead article in Dragon Magazine, are created when a fiend is slain by a long-duration negative energy effect, and kept in that effect for some time. Being teleported to the Negative Energy Plane, and dying from its effects, was the example give.

[Urpriest]

Nightmares are just Fiends.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/nightmare.htm

Nightshades, according to the Birth of the Dead article in Dragon Magazine, are created when a fiend is slain by a long-duration negative energy effect, and kept in that effect for some time. Being teleported to the Negative Energy Plane, and dying from its effects, was the example give.

Ah, I thought Thanatosia had misread the OP and thought it was talking about Nightshades. Bringing it up as an example of an undead fiend makes more sense.

[MukkTB]

I'm pretty sure that the RAW for reanimating something that was already undead has to do with the components.

Lets say we kill a giant lizard. We pierce its body cavity with a spear several times until it bleeds to death. Theoretically the bone structure is intact. Theoretically there is enough flesh remaining to make some kind of zombie.

Lets say we kill a skeleton. The only thing we could do to kill it would be to destroy important bones until it couldn't hold together anymore. Hence there won't be enough left to make a new undead when its reduced to 0 HP.

Ok now a Zombie. Killing it requires breaking big bits off or really ruining the flesh in a big way. Smashing the skull is favorite. By definition, killing the zombie destroys enough flesh and bits that there wouldn't be enough left to create a new zombie. To simplify it wizards also assumed there wouldn't be enough left to make a skeleton.

There are definitely cases where this logic does not hold true. There are ways of killing some living thing that does not leave a very intact corpse. Being eaten by a large predator comes to mind. What can and what can't be animated therefore really comes down to DM interpretation. Always ask before trying to reanimate something and you'll be golden.

[Randomocity132]

Excellent. I asked about the nightmare because our DM just gave us a Nightmare, Cauchemar as a dungeon boss, and its body didn't fade back to the lower realms when it died. I play a necromancy based cleric, so I planned to resurrect it. I've specced heavily into giving bonus HP to animated dead, and the stats for the Nightmare would be:

15 hit points per die on an animate, now

232 hp
16 AC
35 Str
+8 Ref +9 Will / Fort

Fort would be +5

+19 to hit on its first attack
+19 to both hoof (2d6+12) attacks, and a +14 bite (2d6+6)

According to the page on skeletons:

Speed Winged skeletons can’t use their wings to fly. If the base creature flew magically, so can the skeleton.

Nightmare, Cauchemar Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), fly 90 ft. (good)

Flying skeletal horse with 100 more HP than I have that never gets tired or sleeps or eats, does more damage per swing than the barbarian, can carry 1064 pounds as a light load