Optimising a half-dragon

[Grim Portent]

Can anyone recommend a good build for a half-dragon to use that gives decent spellcasting and melee capability? I'd prefer one that leaves a few feats aside for draconic wing, tail and breath feats if possible.

[Crake]

Can anyone recommend a good build for a half-dragon to use that gives decent spellcasting and melee capability? I'd prefer one that leaves a few feats aside for draconic wing, tail and breath feats if possible.

Whats your definition of "good spellcasting" and "good melee"?

Going straight duskblade gives you decent spellcasting and melee, and gives you whatever feats you want.

[Urpriest]

In general, playing a Half-Dragon means that you don't want to have particularly good spellcasting, since it costs three levels and most of its benefits can be gained with spellcasting anyway.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A good build with decent arcane spellcasting and melee would be using Polymorph to get better stats, so it's pointless to shoehorn Half-Dragon into one. It could work with divine spellcasting, since that uses spells to buff itself without changing forms.

What level are you starting at? If you create the character at around 5th level or higher, you won't have to spend a feat on Dragon Wings. Say you gradually gained Half-Dragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a), and prior to gaining the third level of that you hired an NPC spellcaster to put Enlarge Person + Permanency on you, at the standard rates it should cost 3,040 gp. Since you would be large size on gaining the third level of that, it would automatically give you permanent usable wings. It would change your creature type to dragon so Enlarge Person would no longer have any affect on you, but you'll get to keep the wings. Permanent wings for 3,040 that you don't have to spend two feats on to be able to fly is quite a bargain.

For the actual build, I was throwing around character ideas recently and came up with a natural attack build based on a few Druid variants. Go Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger), trade Rage for Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ), and also use the Deadly Hunter Druid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) variant. Get Animal Devotion, Extra Rage, possibly Multiattack, and take Spell Focus: Transmutation to get Ability Enhancer from Dragon Compendium if possible. For items you want Lesser Metamagic Rods of Extend, a standard Strand of Prayer Beads with the Bead of Smiting removed (costs 9,000 gp per DMG pricing), a Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC), and a bunch of Bone Talisman (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) spell foci with Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness) applied to them so the spell lasts 365 times longer. You may also want to replace your Fast Movement for the Lion Spirit ACF for Barbarians in CC to get Pounce. You can dive attack to deal double damage with piercing attacks, including your claws and bite.

Use the Bead of Karma on the strand of prayer beads before casting all-day buffs like (Greater) Luminous Armor, Greater Magic Fang (+1 to all), Heart of Water/Earth, Primal Instinct/Senses, Greater/Superior Resistance, etc. and (Lesser) Rod of Extend as many as possible. Also cast your (Lesser Rod of Extended) Bone Talismans during that time, keep in mind a spell focus can be reused an infinite number of times and the unguent never wears off. Keep the bones threaded onto a leather loop and mark/number each one. Arrange them in order of remaining duration, always use one from the end with the least duration first. Once you've used one put it in a twist on the loop to keep it separate. When you recast it each day put it on the ones that you used first, then recast it with the ones with the least remaining duration if you prepared it enough times. Move the ones it was freshly cast on around to the end with the longest duration to be used last. The bone talismans are spent to get more uses out of your Animal Devotion feat.

The build works as follows:
Surprise round, if any: Cast an efficient (Lesser Rod of Extended) crowd control like Kelpstrand, Sleet Storm, Call Avalanche, Wall of Thorns, etc.
1st round: Cast Animalistic Power (PH2), Ability Enhancer makes it give you +4 to Str, Dex, and Con instead of the normal +2. In the later levels this can be replaced with Bite of the Were-Wolf -Tiger -Bear, etc., which will also give an extra +2 to any ability score they improve. Use the Circlet of Rapid Casting and a Lesser Rod of Extend to cast Produce Flame, and treat it as holding the charge on a touch spell. Any time you touch anyone or anyone touches you, they take 1d6+5 fire damage, including all of your natural weapon attacks, but if you cast another spell this one immediately ends. Move to within a 5-ft. step of an opponent, or get into a position to perform a dive attack if you got pounce.
2nd round: Activate Animal Devotion to get +4 Str, activate Whirling Frenzy to get +4 Str and other benefits, 5-ft. step adjacent to an opponent, and full attack.
3rd and subsequent rounds: Continue full attacking.

[Ruethgar]

If you really want to be draconic, white dragonspawn, dragonborn of bahamut, draconic and dragon-wrought kobolds are all better choices for a caster. White dragonspawn abominations are potentially the best with a chance at giving +7 sorcerer levels at the cost of 2 LA.

[ShurikVch]

Use a Symbiotic Creature template from Savage Species.

Host will be an Arctic Water Orc. Maybe with some templates such as Feral, Lolth-Touched or Mineral Warrior.
Guest will be Magic-Blooded/Loredrake/Woodling/Tome Dracon, wyrmling

This way you can get almost all benefits of being a Half-Dragon.
Guest grants magical abilities, and host's body helps with combat.

[Red Fel]

If you really want to be draconic, white dragonspawn, dragonborn of bahamut, draconic and dragon-wrought kobolds are all better choices for a caster. White dragonspawn abominations are potentially the best with a chance at giving +7 sorcerer levels at the cost of 2 LA.

Seconding Dragonborn; if you want to be Good, it gives you all the benefits of being Dragonblood subtype, with no LA, plus your choice of nice features.

But I have to disagree with Dragonwrought Kobold. Even if you accept Dragonwrought cheese, Kobolds make inferior melee-types, and if you want decent casting and melee, you want something that can survive combat.

As an aside, Dragonborn, being a template, can be slapped on top of your favorite race. Consider, for example, a Dragonborn Warforged Duskblade. You have a solid bonus to Con - great for those combat-casting Concentration checks - and some penalties to Wis, Dex and Cha, none of which are vitally important to your class. From your race, you get Dragonblood subtype, Living Construct traits and immunities, and your choice of vision upgrade, breath weapon, or wings. Plus, as Dragonblood subtype, you can take the rest as feats. From Duskblade, you get full BAB, proficiency in martial weapons and all armors, and an increasing ability to ignore Arcane Spell Failure. You also get the great Arcane Channeling class feature, which lets you drop touch spells in your weapon. As a bonus, using this with Vampiric Touch allows you to overcome the Warforged half-healing deficiency, since that spell is Necromancy, not Healing. Getting a Bloodstone weapon allows you to store a Maximized Vampiric Touch in the weapon, which is just icing.

[The Insanity]

Dragon Disciple.

[Rubik]

The best way to optimize being a half-dragon is to avoid taking the half-dragon template. Try being a dragonborn raptoran. Take a spellcasting class or psion, and go for spells (or powers) that can be fluffed as breath weapons (such as Energy Bolt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyBolt.htm) and Energy Cone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/energyCone.htm)). Gemstone Breath is a nifty little power from Dragon Magic which grants you an actual breath weapon, which can be used with both metapsionic and metabreath feats.

[Yogibear41]

I had a few threads about this 2 or so weeks ago, it was my theoretical project of the week, although I did actually talk to my DM about doing it down the line sometime, basically went human half red dragon taking dragon wings and dragon tail at first level.

Battle Sorcerer 5/Marshal1/Battle Sorcerer 1/SpellSword1/Eldritch knight 1
Abjurant Champion5/Eldritch Knight 6

I think this is how it went

Taking Skill focus Diplomacy at level 3, so at level 6 you can get 2 feats 1 for improved dragon wings, and one for the breath weapon feat that lets you use it unlimited times per day every 1d4 rounds, combat casting at 9, then rapidstrike and improved rapidstrike as early as you can take them, toss in arcane strike somewhere to maybe.

Not exactly amazing but you get 18th level casting and 17 BaB, although extremely limited spell selection.

This is all assuming LA buyoff is allowed, honestly if you can add the template on via the template class you can buyoff the LA faster and easier too, maybe just talk your DM into letting you buy if off as if you took the template 1 level at a time and just take the whole thing to begin with, could always compare its +3 la to something like feral or mineral warriors +1 too, maybe get it reduced down to +1.

[bekeleven]

For the actual build, I was throwing around character ideas recently and came up with a natural attack build based on a few Druid variants. Go Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger), trade Rage for Whirling Frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ), and also use the Deadly Hunter Druid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druid) variant. Note that although this makes some amount of sense, it's not RAW legal to apply a barbarian ACF onto a druid.

[Yogibear41]

Whirling Frenzy isn't technically a barbarian acf, its listed as an alternate ability feature or something like that.

Its listed under "variant class features"


Reminds me of an e6 build I put together once a barbarian/druid killoren fighter type, could eventually get like dr8/cold iron from feats.

[Thrawn183]

Sounds like Dragon Disciple is exactly what you're looking for!

[bekeleven]

Whirling Frenzy isn't technically a barbarian acf, its listed as an alternate ability feature or something like that.

Its listed under "variant class features"


Rage Variant: Whirling Frenzy

A barbarian with this variant form of rage doesn't gain the normal bonuses when he enters a rage

If you want to get very technical, he could take it, but it wouldn't do anything.

[thethird]

I'm particularly proud of Ornixen (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15315090&postcount=352)

[Grim Portent]

Sorry for not posting more information about what I wanted earlier, I should have been a bit clearer but I wasn't entirely sure about what I wanted myself.

I'm basically looking for builds that work to give arcane or divine spells up to at least 6th level spells, though I'd like 9th level ones if possible while still being able to fight as a primary melee character, so BAB of 15+ would be preferred.

I'm open to builds that use weapons, natural attacks (since the tail feat from RotD gives a natural attack augmenting it may be useful) or any other odds and ends, although I'm not interested in the classes that turn you into a dragon slowly.

The endpoint I want is basically a spell flinging dragon knight, but I want to have draconic abilities early, hence the half-dragon and draconic feats. I came to the playground with this request since I know half-dragon has really bad LA for what it does and I trust the wisdom of the playground to help produce something that is at least playable without tripping over it's own failage and dying.

I spent a while looking at classes in the books I have access to and worked out a fairly poor knock up at a build, though I'm certain that people can suggest better builds.

My build (this is assuming LA buyoff by the way.)

Human Half-Red Dragon
Level: Class: Feats

Level 1:Fighter: Dragon Tail, Dragon Wings and Power Attack
level 2: Fighter: Cleave
Level 3: Sorcerer: Still Spell
Level 4: Sorcerer:
Level 5:Sorcerer:
Level 6: Sorcerer: Dragon Breath, Improved Wings
Level 7: Spellsword:
(And just to cut this short because I haven't thought this far really)
Level 8-17: Spellsword
Levels 18-20: Sorcerer

This lets me get all my dragon themed abilities by level 6 while giving me a bit of casting and the ability to cleave enemies. I know that it's not great but my knowledge of 3.5 is limited.

[Rubik]

Sorry for not posting more information about what I wanted earlier, I should have been a bit clearer but I wasn't entirely sure about what I wanted myself.

I'm basically looking for builds that work to give arcane or divine spells up to at least 6th level spells, though I'd like 9th level ones if possible while still being able to fight as a primary melee character, so BAB of 15+ would be preferred.

I'm open to builds that use weapons, natural attacks (since the tail feat from RotD gives a natural attack augmenting it may be useful) or any other odds and ends, although I'm not interested in the classes that turn you into a dragon slowly.

The endpoint I want is basically a spell flinging dragon knight, but I want to have draconic abilities early, hence the half-dragon and draconic feats. I came to the playground with this request since I know half-dragon has really bad LA for what it does and I trust the wisdom of the playground to help produce something that is at least playable without tripping over it's own failage and dying.

I spent a while looking at classes in the books I have access to and worked out a fairly poor knock up at a build, though I'm certain that people can suggest better builds.

My build (this is assuming LA buyoff by the way.)

Human Half-Red Dragon
Level: Class: Feats

Level 1:Fighter: Dragon Tail, Dragon Wings and Power Attack
level 2: Fighter: Cleave
Level 3: Sorcerer: Still Spell
Level 4: Sorcerer:
Level 5:Sorcerer:
Level 6: Sorcerer: Dragon Breath, Improved Wings
Level 7: Spellsword:
(And just to cut this short because I haven't thought this far really)
Level 8-17: Spellsword
Levels 18-20: Sorcerer

This lets me get all my dragon themed abilities by level 6 while giving me a bit of casting and the ability to cleave enemies. I know that it's not great but my knowledge of 3.5 is limited.
A dragonborn (mind) raptoran psion/slayer/ghostbreaker (from Hyperconscious) would give you near-full BAB, 9th level powers, dragon senses, breath weapons, flight, and even natural weapons if you took, say, Shape Soulmeld or Hidden Talent (Claws of the Beast) as a feat and a couple of blasty powers.

[Grim Portent]

A dragonborn

That's my only real problem with that suggestion. The dragonborn bit, good and I do not get along well, I'd lose my scales so fast that paladins would slip on them on their path to falling. Otherwise it seems a good idea, I just can't pull off good, especially strict good like the dragonborn, for very long.

[Rubik]

Then either take the template and refluff as something else -- after all, it's not like the mechanics change, and not all dragons are Good -- or skip the dragonborn and just refluff your raptoran character into something draconic with Draconic Heritage or perhaps a bloodline or two. Then make sure to take a couple of psionic powers that give you ESP, such as Touchsight.