Best uses for Wall of Stone

[Story]

I just got 5th level spells, and as a Conjurer, I had to pick one to be Conjuration. Since we already had Teleport via NPC spellbook, I ended up getting Wall of Stone, narrowly beating Wall of Magma and Lesser Planar Binding. But now I'm trying to decide what to do with it.

It seems like an instantaneous Conjuration which can drop shapeable permanent stone near anywhere should be easy to abuse, but I'm having trouble coming up with ideas. Building a bridge isn't so useful when you can just Polymorph someone to fly everyone over instead. And walling enemies in would be more useful if they couldn't all teleport. So what are your favorite uses for Wall of Stone?

[Vizzerdrix]

Battlefield control vs. BSF type monsters.

Construction contracts during down time.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Quickened Create Pit.

Wall of Stone over the pit.

Dismiss create pit. End turn.

SQUISH

[JHShadon]

Ending an argument by putting a stone wall between you and the other person.

[Sir Chuckles]

Have a Hulking Hurler in your party.

Make the wall thin enough for him to snap of conveniently sized throwing chunks.

Mobile catapult team GOGOGO!

[Erik Vale]

Wall of Stone
Stone Shape [Desired Being]
Stone to Flesh
Create Undead [Corpse Creature]

You now have a better than zombie of whatever you want. Controlling it is another matter.

Edit:
Create a bridge over a distance.
Walk over it.
Dismiss it when enemies try to walk over it, sending them plummeting to their deaths.

[AzureKnight]

While running for our lives, 2 of the 3 fighters dying my lovingmage looks at his friends holding back wave after wave of drow warriors, he yells to the group to hold the enemy line 1 more round while i prepare my spell to help keep them at bay.

They fight heroicly and the mage smiles and sends a wall of stone between the drow and the party blocking the passageway. More drow come from the opposite way in ambush, again I summon a second wall.

Now we are incased in a small 20 foot area. We treat our wounded and rest a while. The mage mentions his spells are now exhausted save 1 last spell, dig. They want to rest the night and form a plan, so i study and get some rest, as does the rest of the party.

Dm makes a few rolls behind his screen chuckles and shakes his head. He announced we need to all roll 1d20. Not a good round, 2 rolls of 1, rolls of 8 a 12 and the other a 3. DM stops smiling and says the adventure is over, we all have died.

Confused looks all around. The dm says you guys should have let the mage use dig to open a lower level or go through a side wall. Again we all are confused.

Apparently in 8 hours, 6 humans and 2 wolves use more air than a 20 foot romm with seven foot ceilings could hold. We died in our sleep from lack of oxygen.

I asked the DM if the deaths of the party was mainly my fault, and he says kinda. Then why was he so shocked when I jokingly ask him if I got exp for killing everyone, lol.

[Erik Vale]

While running for our lives, 2 of the 3 fighters dying my lovingmage looks at his friends holding back wave after wave of drow warriors, he yells to the group to hold the enemy line 1 more round while i prepare my spell to help keep them at bay.

They fight heroicly and the mage smiles and sends a wall of stone between the drow and the party blocking the passageway. More drow come from the opposite way in ambush, again I summon a second wall.

Now we are incased in a small 20 foot area. We treat our wounded and rest a while. The mage mentions his spells are now exhausted save 1 last spell, dig. They want to rest the night and form a plan, so i study and get some rest, as does the rest of the party.

Dm makes a few rolls behind his screen chuckles and shakes his head. He announced we need to all roll 1d20. Not a good round, 2 rolls of 1, rolls of 8 a 12 and the other a 3. DM stops smiling and says the adventure is over, we all have died.

Confused looks all around. The dm says you guys should have let the mage use dig to open a lower level or go through a side wall. Again we all are confused.

Apparently in 8 hours, 6 humans and 2 wolves use more air than a 20 foot romm with seven foot ceilings could hold. We died in our sleep from lack of oxygen.

And that is a example of failed wisdom rolls. And a example of worst uses for Wall of Stone.

[Incorrect]

Go all earthbender by readying an action to cast it as a shield to block incoming attacks.

Trap people.
Even if every single one of them can somehow teleport :smallconfused:
If you trap 3 enemies, and they teleport out; then you traded your 1 standard action for their 3 standard actions.
Or block in yourself to buy time.

Utility!
Bridges, stairs, columns, defensible bottlenecks, shelter, bunker, a castle!

[Crake]

Wall of Stone
Stone Shape [Desired Being]
Stone to Flesh
Create Undead [Corpse Creature]

You now have a better than zombie of whatever you want. Controlling it is another matter.

Edit:
Create a bridge over a distance.
Walk over it.
Dismiss it when enemies try to walk over it, sending them plummeting to their deaths.

Except unless the stone is a petrified creature, all you actually end up with is a flehsy mass in the shape of a creature. No bones, or muscle, just flesh.

[Manly Man]

Make a fortress in the span of a couple of days. Use stone shape to carve it however you like.

Also, combine it with stone shape to make excellent spike pit traps. Really, the two spells go hand-in-hand with each other, and all it would take is some imagination.

[Erik Vale]

Except unless the stone is a petrified creature, all you actually end up with is a flehsy mass in the shape of a creature. No bones, or muscle, just flesh.

That's why I specify Corpse Creature, it doesn't require bones/etc to turn a dead creature into a better than normal zombie.
However if you use more creative definitions of skeleton, you can use animate dead for plant creatures. Of course, be creative, I mean online definitions from dictionaries that through abuse also maybe apply to oozes, not just the biologicaly accepted types of skeletons being the Endoskeleton [what humans have] and Exoskeleton [insect shells].

However, I think there is the stone bone or some similar spells that you could apply to give the creature bones, however I haven't looked into that, and your just wasting a spell slot.

[Crake]

That's why I specify Corpse Creature, it doesn't require bones/etc to turn a dead creature into a better than normal zombie.
However if you use more creative definitions of skeleton, you can use animate dead for plant creatures. Of course, be creative, I mean online definitions from dictionaries that through abuse also maybe apply to oozes, not just the biologicaly accepted types of skeletons being the Endoskeleton [what humans have] and Exoskeleton [insect shells].

However, I think there is the stone bone or some similar spells that you could apply to give the creature bones, however I haven't looked into that, and your just wasting a spell slot.

I guess I should be clearer, what you're creating with stone to flesh is not a corpse, thus is not a legal target for any of the undead creating spells, it is simply a mass of flesh in the general shape of a creature

[Erik Vale]

Technically, Corpse creature can only target a creature. Corpses are objects, not creatures, therefore you can only target living beings...

Also, from Create Undead


Material Component: A clay pot filled with grave dirt and another filled with brackish water. The spell must be cast on a dead body. You must place a black onyx gem worth at least 50 gp per HD of the undead to be created into the mouth or eye socket of each corpse. The magic of the spell turns these gems into worthless shells. (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-v35--6/create-undead--2724/)

And from Stone to Flesh

The spell also can convert a mass of stone into a fleshy substance. Such flesh is inert and lacking a vital life force unless a life force or magical energy is available. (For example, this spell would turn a stone golem into a flesh golem, but an ordinary statue would become a corpse.) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stoneToFlesh.htm)

Do I need to supply further support to my case [See the bolded bit]? Or shall I fall back on the RAW of the Corpse Creature template and Create Undead interaction for how Corpse Creatures can't be created by the method listed in the template.

It even works RAI [IMHO], as 'magical energy' in the form of Create Undead is avaliable to make the flesh non-inert and giving it vital life force.

[Fable Wright]

Trap people.
Even if every single one of them can somehow teleport :smallconfused:
If you trap 3 enemies, and they teleport out; then you traded your 1 standard action for their 3 standard actions.

Even better: Have a Greater Anticipate Teleport up. If you trap 3 enemies, you traded one standard action for 3 turns of theirs, and know exactly where they're showing up when they finally act again.

Also doable with regular Anticipate Teleport, but that only soaks one of their turns.

[Cruiser1]

Dismiss it when enemies try to walk over it, sending them plummeting to their deaths.
Wall of Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfStone.htm) can't be dismissed. It's an instantaneous duration Conjuration, meaning the wall created is non-magical. Remember also that the wall must be anchored to existing stone, meaning if you're traveling in a desert or over a glacier you may want to have a few paving tiles in your backpack, which you can toss out as a move action before using them as a seed to start your Wall of Stone from.

[Craft (Cheese)]

Apparently in 8 hours, 6 humans and 2 wolves use more air than a 20 foot romm with seven foot ceilings could hold. We died in our sleep from lack of oxygen.

"Umm, shouldn't we have woken up once we started having breathing trouble?"

[TuggyNE]

"Umm, shouldn't we have woken up once we started having breathing trouble?"

Presumably that's what the d20 roll was for. "Roll to see if your body fails its Perform: Critical Basic Functions check. DC 15."

[Ketiara]

"Umm, shouldn't we have woken up once we started having breathing trouble?"

No, you wouldnt wake up just before you die due to lack of O2. You fall asleep, then pass out and then die... Actually a very peaceful way to go... Beats having a sword in your belly.

[littlebum2002]

1. Cast Wall of Stone.
2. Cast Stone to Flesh
3. Cast Flesh to Salt.
4. Sell thousands of pounds of salt at 5GP a pound.



OR

Ask your DM if you can get a Conjuration spell out of the SC, like Vitriolic Sphere or Greater Dimension Door. Both are more useful than Wall of Stone.

[XmonkTad]

A thinly spread wall can clog up the traps in a long deadly hallway. It can also be used to protect NPCs and to gain the high ground.

If you've ever seen any minecraft griefing, you can also use this to deface buildings, monuments, alters, shrines, etc.

I'm pretty sure you can push the wall over, so squishings should be possible with a little planning.

[Story]

Ask your DM if you can get a Conjuration spell out of the SC, like Vitriolic Sphere or Greater Dimension Door. Both are more useful than Wall of Stone.

How so? GDD I can kind of see, but it's still just adding more teleports instead of a new capability.

[littlebum2002]

How so? GDD I can kind of see, but it's still just adding more teleports instead of a new capability.

More of the same useful capability > new useless capability.

In 22 posts not one person has given you a good use for this spell, since everyone can already bypass it using fly/teleport by the time you get it.

If you want new capabilities, then get Mage's Faithful Hound. Or Secret Chest. Or Hidden Lodge. All are new capabilities, and all are just as insignificantly useful as Wall of Stone.


Heck, at least Viscid Glob can keep Flying enemies at bay. And it uses Reflex saves, which are usually the lowest. Get it before Wall of Stone IMHO.

[Twilightwyrm]

More of the same useful capability > new useless capability.

In 22 posts not one person has given you a good use for this spell, since everyone can already bypass it using fly/teleport by the time you get it.

If you want new capabilities, then get Mage's Faithful Hound. Or Secret Chest. Or Hidden Lodge. All are new capabilities, and all are just as insignificantly useful as Wall of Stone.


Heck, at least Viscid Glob can keep Flying enemies at bay. And it uses Reflex saves, which are usually the lowest. Get it before Wall of Stone IMHO.

Sorry, does "Castle Building" not count as utility?

[Zanos]

More of the same useful capability > new useless capability.

In 22 posts not one person has given you a good use for this spell, since everyone can already bypass it using fly/teleport by the time you get it.
I prepare it any day i'm going to be indoors or in a cave...or in a dungeon.

Getting attacked from two sides? Wall of stone.
Caught off guard? Wall of stone.
Need to buff? Wall of stone.

Wall of stone can even be used as a Reflex SoL in a pinch by attempting to trap a creature in it.

Seriously, any time you don't want to deal with an issue, or would prefer to deal with it in a few rounds(buff up, turn the area into a slaughterhouse, whatever), wall of stone is great.

[Captnq]

More of the same useful capability > new useless capability.

In 22 posts not one person has given you a good use for this spell, since everyone can already bypass it using fly/teleport by the time you get it.

If you want new capabilities, then get Mage's Faithful Hound. Or Secret Chest. Or Hidden Lodge. All are new capabilities, and all are just as insignificantly useful as Wall of Stone.

Heck, at least Viscid Glob can keep Flying enemies at bay. And it uses Reflex saves, which are usually the lowest. Get it before Wall of Stone IMHO.


:eek:

Are you for real?

Eberron - Sharn - The Mud Caves.

Last session the players ramped up their good will campaign. The epic level cleric/wizard flew in and with a combination of wall of stone, rapid stone shape, disintegrate, elemental swarm (earth) and a few well placed Create Springs from scrolls. He not only made a series of catwalks, turning the mud caves into a much more habitable place, but created fancy sun decks, several statues that continuously spit water and an outdoor auditorium for people to sit and enjoy the sunset.

However, the spell he cast the most was wall of stone. He must have cast it like, 20 times.

Not every spell has a combat purpose. I will tell you, when it goes towards winning hearts and minds, Wall of Stone will go much further then Viscid Glob any day of the week.

If all you play is arena combat, then sure, get something else. If you are looking for utility. If you are looking to pave the roads. If you are looking to make cheap housing. If you want to throw up cover for an army of low level mooks. If you are looking for a spell that's sort of like duct tape, wall of stone is just one of those spells you need if you plan on getting into urban development.

[shadow_archmagi]

In 22 posts not one person has given you a good use for this spell, since everyone can already bypass it using fly/teleport by the time you get it.


Do you play in that one setting where there are no monsters and every NPC has wizard levels?

[Craft (Cheese)]

No, you wouldnt wake up just before you die due to lack of O2. You fall asleep, then pass out and then die... Actually a very peaceful way to go... Beats having a sword in your belly.

You only pass out due to lack of O2 when your brain runs out of oxygen, not when your body stops receiving it. This is why you don't instantly pass out when you try to hold your breath, it takes a little while. I would think that the discomfort of being deprived oxygen would be enough to wake you up, and you'd have at least a few rounds to act.

Plus, just announcing "You are all dead" to the players without giving them a chance to react to what's killing them is just bad DMing.

[littlebum2002]

For COMBAT purposes? Yes, I guess it would be very useful if you find yourself flanked in a dungeon. But then again, there are times when a Faithful Hound or Vitriolic Sphere will be useful as well. I'm just saying those times are few and far between.
I personally would think the Viscid Glob would find more combat uses than any of these.

Or, again, get greater Dimensional Door. It's a move action instead of a standard action, so it can be used in combat unlike Teleport. Move, cast. Move, cast. Repeat 3 more times.





For ROLEPLAYING purposes? Again, yeah, it might be fun to build a castle, or do cool things if you ever happen to end up in mud pits, but again both of those are rare events.

I'd prefer Major Creation for RP purposes. Need a key? Major Creation. Need anything on the equipment list? Major Creation. Need 9 cu. ft. of black lotus extract that will last all day? Guess what spell you use.

Or Phantasmal thief! send him along with the scout and steal equipment from the bad guys before you enter combat. Break into the evil noble's house and steal any precious items he has lying around.





You only pass out due to lack of O2 when your brain runs out of oxygen, not when your body stops receiving it. This is why you don't instantly pass out when you try to hold your breath, it takes a little while. I would think that the discomfort of being deprived oxygen would be enough to wake you up, and you'd have at least a few rounds to act.

Plus, just announcing "You are all dead" to the players without giving them a chance to react to what's killing them is just bad DMing.

I thought about this as well. What would you do as a DM? They're going to sleep, and you know if they do, they're not going to make it through the night.

This is a problem I see often in games, where the characters should be smart enough to notice something but the players aren't. After all, the equivalent of, say, 22 Intelligence in Real Life is probably in the 99.99999 percentile. But that's fairly common in characters. So, the DM has the players make an ability roll to see if they would realize what's wrong with the situation. In this case, it would probably be a Wisdom roll, not an Intelligence roll. They fail the Wisdom roll, it means they were all too distracted to realize the dangers, and there's a sad ending.

Of course, this not being the real world, you can always say "Your wizard wakes up in the middle of the night gasping for breath. What do you do?". While this would be entirely realistic in a fantasy novel or a movie (which means it's fair game in D&D), if you want to be ultra-realistic, it would not happen in real life. Still, if I were a DM, i'd probably do it, just because TPK's aren't fun for anyone.

[Sir Chuckles]

You only pass out due to lack of O2 when your brain runs out of oxygen, not when your body stops receiving it. This is why you don't instantly pass out when you try to hold your breath, it takes a little while. I would think that the discomfort of being deprived oxygen would be enough to wake you up, and you'd have at least a few rounds to act.

Plus, just announcing "You are all dead" to the players without giving them a chance to react to what's killing them is just bad DMing.

Absolutely agree here.
I, for one, would not have called a Wisdom check.

It could very easily kill them of suffocation, even if they did notice it, but an absolute "You're dead" from something that preventable is silly.

And someone said "No good ideas"?
Bah, I gave a perfectly reasonable "Use wall as ammunition" suggestion. With a little bit of thickness finagling you can have a wall pushed over on someone.
It makes for excellent utility, as well. Never underestimate the utility Wizard, especially in a roleplay/skill focused campaign.

[Fax Celestis]

Cast it as thin as you possibly can over the ground, then hit it with spike stones, an oft-overlooked harsh-as-hell bfc spell.

[Epsilon Rose]

You only pass out due to lack of O2 when your brain runs out of oxygen, not when your body stops receiving it. This is why you don't instantly pass out when you try to hold your breath, it takes a little while. I would think that the discomfort of being deprived oxygen would be enough to wake you up, and you'd have at least a few rounds to act.

Plus, just announcing "You are all dead" to the players without giving them a chance to react to what's killing them is just bad DMing.

Actually, fun fact, we don't detect when we're running out of O2. We detect when CO2 has built up too much. I'm not entirely sure how that would effect the described situation, but I do know that people can suffocate in their sleep without waking up.

[morkendi]

Your being chased by a ship. Inviso and fly over. Cast walls of stone to fill hold and leave. At best, the ship is slower and off balance. Do it right and sink it.

Damn a river or stream to flood things.... how many modules etc. have underground rivers or steams.

Lay siege on enemy stronghold. Wall of stone all exits and windows as days progress. Inviso in and dam water source or well with it. Wait them out.