Combust (Re-posted RAW Question)

[ItWasFutile]

The Discussion so far:

Q 833
This question concerns the spell combust (Spell Compendium P.50)

If I let a bunch of people wander into an area coated in lamp oil and light the oil on fire with a combust spell, do the creatures in the oil take damage as per the spell, or as per standing in a fire?

Edit: New Thread started, additional discussion desired


A 833

Your plan won't work. Oil poured on the ground is no longer a targetable object; it's part of the landscape. You could ignite it through some other means, but Combust is not (directly) one of them.

If you left a flask of oil on top of oily smooth ground, you could use Combust on that object. That flask would take the Combust damage, and the oil spread on the ground would ignite and deal the normal damage to creatures in the covered area (1d3 points of fire damage per round for 2 rounds).


A 833 Correction

An oiled ground is a combustible, unattended object, you can aim at a 10-foot-by-10-foot section of it, and resolve it as per the description of the Combust spell.

However, the creatures standing there won't take the spell damage or fire damage, just the burning oil damage, like Curmudgeon said, 1d3 fire damage during 2 rounds.


My question is this, doesn't the DMG define an attended item as something being touched, held, or worn? In that case, wouldn't the oil on the ground count as an attended item, and as such, subject everyone in the area to the damage from combust?

[Captnq]

Uhh... it doesn't work like that.

I take oil. I pour oil ALL over the place. I mean the walls, the floor, the roof (the roof! The Roof! The Roof is on FIRE!), on the furniture. Everything.

I cast combust. WOOSH! The oil is unattended. It gets no saving throw. No Spell Resistance. Nothing. THE OIL takes Xd8 damage. X= My CL <=10.

I am standing in the oil.
I fail my reflex DC 15 saving throw.
I take 1d6 fire damage.
I make a Reflex save at DC 15 next round.
The damage stops.

DONE.

The combust does not spread out to everyone in the oil. The oil takes the damage, but the oil does not spread the damage. All I take is the You Catch On Fire Damage.

[Mr Adventurer]

Using the OP definition, why bother with the oil?

[Fax Celestis]

Which, by the way, will include you, since combust is touch-range.

That said, Lords of Darkness and Magic of Faerun read slightly differently than the amended Spell Compendium version:


This spell makes a combustible object or a creature's combustible equipment burst into flame, even if damp.

If the target is a creature, the initial eruption of flame causes 2d6 points of fire damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +10) with no saving throw.
The creature must make a Reflex save (DC 15) or catch on fire. (See Catching on Fire in Chapter 3 of the DUNGEON MASTER's Guide). If the target is a combustible, unattended object, the initial eruption of flame inflicts fire damage on the object as noted above. The object catches fire and takes 1d6 points of fire damage each round until consumed or someone puts out the fire. Anyone touching the object during the initial eruption of flame takes the same fire damage the object does. A Reflex save reduces damage by half.

If a creature touching the object fails the Reflex save, it must make another Reflex save (DC 15) to avoid catching fire.

...which supports your question and theorization. Unfortunately for you, the spell was updated in Spell Compendium to read:


This spell makes a combustible object or a creature's combustible equipment burst into flame, even if damp.

If the target is a creature, the initial eruption of flame causes 1d8 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d8) with no saving throw. Further, the creature must make a DC 15 Reflex save or catch fire (DMG 303).

If the target is a combustible, unattended object, the initial eruption of flame deals fire damage to the object as noted above. The object catches fire and takes 1d6 points of fire damage each round until consumed or someone puts out the fire.

...which rather pointedly omits the proximity-fire effect, likely because of it being a highly-dangerous spell to cast on a flammable object (considering the caster would be touching the target and therefore would be inflicting fire damage upon themselves).

[ItWasFutile]

As far as me touching it, that's what spectral hand is for.

Combust states that an unattended item takes damage and catches fire no save, and that if someone's possession is the target, THEY take the damage, and get to save VS catching fire

Unattended is the opposite of attended, and attended is defined as:
An item attended by a character (being grasped, touched, or worn)

If it is on the ground, and I am touching the ground, I am also touching the oil. If I am touching the oil, it is not unattended.

If it is attended by me, doesn't it kind of count as my possession?

I am only working with a couple of websites right now, and don't have access to my books because I am at work, so there could be something I am missing here. If there is a section of text that defines attended object in another way, please reference it here so that I can look it up.

And as for why I want to target oil instead of someone's shirt, it's because targeting oil turns it into an area effect

[Fax Celestis]

Combust states that an unattended item takes damage and catches fire no save, and that if someone's possession is the target, THEY take the damage, and get to save VS catching fire
No, it does not.


This spell makes a combustible object or a creature's combustible equipment burst into flame, even if damp.

If the target is a creature, the initial eruption of flame causes 1d8 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d8) with no saving throw. Further, the creature must make a DC 15 Reflex save or catch fire (DMG 303).

If the target is a combustible, unattended object, the initial eruption of flame deals fire damage to the object as noted above. The object catches fire and takes 1d6 points of fire damage each round until consumed or someone puts out the fire.

This is the entirety of the functions of the spell. Either you touch a creature and inflict 1d8/CL fire damage, plus possibly light them on fire; or you touch a combustible, unattended object and inflict 1d6/round to the object.

An item is attended when it is held, carried, or wielded (including wielded through magic, like an animated shield) by a creature.

The spell has no function for targeting an attended object.

[ItWasFutile]

I finally found the entirety of the entry on the interwebs somewhere. Seeing it in it's entirety, you're right. I apologize. I was having to make due with bits and pieces of the text. From several versions of the spell. I appreciate the help. Looks like it's back to the standard area attack: An energy substituted acid fog of three thunders

[Mr Adventurer]

Waiting for an acid fog to end in order to stun people is not that optimal.