Contingency Spell? (928 Go)

[AvocadoAvenger]

As the thread title indicates, I am confused about the most recent issue of order of the stick. What does he mean when he says contingency spell? I looked it up on the internet, and found nothing that could make one vanish when massive damage is applied. Can somebody clear it up for me? As an underlying wonderment, I am trying to figure out what having this spell means for the character of Tarquins henchmen (is he an explanar? Is he from The Unapproachable East as one search might have me believe? What?)

[Kornaki]

He's talking about this spell

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm

you can cast contingency, which allows you to designate another spell to cast automatically when certain conditions happen. In this case Miron picked the spell teleport (probably) and the condition "I take X damage " where X is some suitable number.

[Ewig Custos]

I believe Miron used Contingency to auto-teleport him out of danger when his HP drop below certain point.

Edit: swordsage'd, of course

[Shale]

Contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm) is a spell that automatically casts another spell, under circumstances you choose. It can be as simple as "If I drop below 10 HP, Teleport me to my Room Of Healing Potions And Beer," or as complicated as "When the wind is out of the east at exactly seven miles per hour and the sun is shining on my mother's gravestone, cast Fireball on my boss's sixth cousin twice removed."

[hamishspence]

Yup. Crafted Contingent Spells (using the feat rather than the contingency spell) have certain advantages of their own.

But in this case, it's not necessary to invoke that feat.

[Bulldog Psion]

Here's a link to the description:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm

Some relevant text:


The conditions needed to bring the spell into effect must be clear, although they can be general. In all cases, the contingency immediately brings into effect the companion spell, the latter being “cast” instantaneously when the prescribed circumstances occur.

In other words, the companion spell in this case is a Teleport aimed at "Miron's top secret refuge stocked with healing and curative potions, and a choice selection of scrolls, fine wines, and a bidet."

The conditions could be:


If my hit points fall below 20% of total, cast Teleport.
If I lose more than 50% of my hit points on two consecutive rounds, cast teleport.
If I am hit by an attack that causes more than 60 points of damage, cast Teleport.

[JT]

?.. stocked with healing and curative potions, and a choice selection of scrolls, fine wines, and a bidet."

You meant a "splashy butt-washing thing" ... right?
:smallwink:

[Bulldog Psion]

You meant a "splashy butt-washing thing" ... right?
:smallwink:

Yes, yes, I did. :smallbiggrin:

[Quild]

I was thinking that the DC would be quite high for Miron to come back after a few rounds if he has another teleport up, but maybe not that much.

I'm not familiar with teleport in desert! Or with teleport anyway.

[KillianHawkeye]

I was thinking that the DC would be quite high for Miron to come back after a few rounds if he has another teleport up, but maybe not that much.

I'm not familiar with teleport in desert! Or with teleport anyway.

It's based on a percentile roll. Since this is ostensibly the first time Miron has ever seen or been to the location, he only has a 76% chance of getting there accurately if he uses a normal Teleport spell. He probably has Greater Teleport, though, so that's probably not a problem for him.

[Shred-Bot]

Contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm) is a spell that automatically casts another spell, under circumstances you choose. It can be as simple as "If I drop below 10 HP, Teleport me to my Room Of Healing Potions And Beer," or as complicated as "When the wind is out of the east at exactly seven miles per hour and the sun is shining on my mother's gravestone, cast Fireball on my boss's sixth cousin twice removed."

Though I believe said cousin would have to be within range when the criteria occur, no? And you'd have to specify the name, unless of course you aren't picky about which distant cousin of your boss gets fireballed. (Which let's face it, if you're using contingent area damage spells you're probably not too particular about affecting additional targets. :smalltongue:)

Also I want a Room Of Healing Potions And Beer. Presumably Durkon (if he ever gets resurrected) would build himself one of those.

[Jay R]

Also I want a Room Of Healing Potions And Beer.

I want a Room of Healing Beer and Potions.

[orrion]

He's talking about this spell

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm

you can cast contingency, which allows you to designate another spell to cast automatically when certain conditions happen. In this case Miron picked the spell teleport (probably) and the condition "I take X damage " where X is some suitable number.

I would think it's more "I have less than X hit points," but yeah.

[luna the cat]

woah, contingency is a really cool spell and it's no wonder it has so many restrictions, cause it could be abused so easily

like even if as it is, if you had enough high level casters, you could use contingency spells that call upon each other (since each caster can only make one contingency spell at a time, but they can have conditions of other contingency spells) to do some really complex stuff. probably make a turing complete computer within DnD if you had enough high level casters :p

"You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled."

like, you can get around it if you had say, 8 casters capable of casting contingency spells... Like if you wanted to assassinate someone in their bed,

first contingency spell by caster Carl: if in two weeks The King of Islebald is in his bedroom, active contingency spell Death in Bed

second contingency spell: if first contingency spell activated, shoot massive death beam at the King's bed.

third contingency spell: did the massive death beam miss? if so, this spell is activated and warns the casters

fourth contingency spell: if third contingency spell is activated, giant explosions in the bedroom and fifth contingency spell activated

fifth contingency spell: if the king is still alive, scry his location and activate the second contingency spell again

and so on

like, yes it says:
"If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when called on."

that doesn't matter if you make sure each contingency spell itself is very simple and straightforward and consistent

[luna the cat]

i read it the description more carefully and that wouldn't work, but it was fun thinking of ways to use it (sorry never played DnD)

[chibibar]

woah, contingency is a really cool spell and it's no wonder it has so many restrictions, cause it could be abused so easily

like even if as it is, if you had enough high level casters, you could use contingency spells that call upon each other (since each caster can only make one contingency spell at a time, but they can have conditions of other contingency spells) to do some really complex stuff. probably make a turing complete computer within DnD if you had enough high level casters :p

"You can use only one contingency spell at a time; if a second is cast, the first one (if still active) is dispelled."

like, you can get around it if you had say, 8 casters capable of casting contingency spells... Like if you wanted to assassinate someone in their bed,

first contingency spell by caster Carl: if in two weeks The King of Islebald is in his bedroom, active contingency spell Death in Bed

second contingency spell: if first contingency spell activated, shoot massive death beam at the King's bed.

third contingency spell: did the massive death beam miss? if so, this spell is activated and warns the casters

fourth contingency spell: if third contingency spell is activated, giant explosions in the bedroom and fifth contingency spell activated

fifth contingency spell: if the king is still alive, scry his location and activate the second contingency spell again

and so on

like, yes it says:
"If complicated or convoluted conditions are prescribed, the whole spell combination (contingency and the companion magic) may fail when called on."

that doesn't matter if you make sure each contingency spell itself is very simple and straightforward and consistent


There is an older spell called Chain Contingency
http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-and-blood-a-guidebook-to-wizards-and-sorcerers--51/chain-contingency--3392/

You could use it to trigger multiple spells. Or have different effect and such.

[i6uuaq]

Building from what Luna said, what are some interesting/powerful ways to use Contingency?

An auto-escape would surely be useful, and I can imagine using Contingency to auto-cast a buff when meeting Xykon...

Imagine if you had six casters, all with Contingency "If Xykon is within range, cast Sunburst at him." From what I saw in the comic, the contingency going off doesn't take a normal action?

[Excise]

This spell seems like it could be abused as written. You could do something like "once Xykon is within a 1000 foot radius of Girard's Gate, cast Ventriloquism (or some other harmless spell)". Then cast it again for whatever else you want to find out.

Presumably a DM would veto using this as a Magic 8-Ball, though.

[Bird]

This spell seems like it could be abused as written. You could do something like "once Xykon is within a 1000 foot radius of Girard's Gate, cast Ventriloquism (or some other harmless spell)". Then cast it again for whatever else you want to find out.

Presumably a DM would veto using this as a Magic 8-Ball, though.
That's clever. The point isn't the spell cast -- it's the information gained merely via the realization that the contingency has been triggered.

Are there any divinations that work in that fashion (once X happens, you get informed)? If so, what level?

[MReav]

Contingency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/contingency.htm) is a spell that automatically casts another spell, under circumstances you choose. It can be as simple as "If I drop below 10 HP, Teleport me to my Room Of Healing Potions And Beer," or as complicated as "When the wind is out of the east at exactly seven miles per hour and the sun is shining on my mother's gravestone, cast Fireball on my boss's sixth cousin twice removed."

Not quite. Contingency and the spell it uses targets the caster. If you have a Fireball in there, you'd detonate it on yourself.



The spell to be brought into effect by the contingency must be one that affects your person and be of a spell level no higher than one-third your caster level (rounded down, maximum 6th level).

[Kiraxa]

This spell seems like it could be abused as written. You could do something like "once Xykon is within a 1000 foot radius of Girard's Gate, cast Ventriloquism (or some other harmless spell)". Then cast it again for whatever else you want to find out.

Presumably a DM would veto using this as a Magic 8-Ball, though.

Contingency can only be used to cast spells that affect yourself. So for the previous fireball examples, they'd only work if you designated yourself as the target.
edit: Damn. Ninja'd.

[Kurald Galain]

Building from what Luna said, what are some interesting/powerful ways to use Contingency?
A classic one is activating some buff spell when I clap my hands; I used to do this with Tenser's Transformation.


This spell seems like it could be abused as written. You could do something like "once Xykon is within a 1000 foot radius of Girard's Gate, cast Ventriloquism (or some other harmless spell)".
If you wanted to leave a message to Xykon, that's what the Magic Mouth spell does. If you wanted to know when he gets there, I suppose Alarm would help, but its range is pretty short.

[Eulalios]

Contingency can only be used to cast spells that affect yourself. So for the previous fireball examples, they'd only work if you designated yourself as the target.
edit: Damn. Ninja'd.

With a ring of fire resistance this makes sense.

[137beth]

A classic one is activating some buff spell when I clap my hands; I used to do this with Tenser's Transformation.


If you wanted to leave a message to Xykon, that's what the Magic Mouth spell does. If you wanted to know when he gets there, I suppose Alarm would help, but its range is pretty short.

I think he was suggesting casting a spell with a noticeable effect (dancing lights would be good) contingent to trigger "when Xykon gets within 1000 feet of Girard's gate", in the hope that your contingency triggering would alert you (regardless of how far away you are) that Xykon has arrived at the gate.
A similar idea would be to contingent a spell on a yes/no question to which you do not know the answer. If it goes off immediately, the answer was 'yes'. If it doesn't, the answer is 'no', allowing contingency to function as a non-disruptable divination spell.
I usually fix this by house-ruling that the contingency only triggers if the caster is aware of the trigger.

[AvocadoAvenger]

Ah, thanks guys that really clears it up. What threw me -as well as being previously unfamiliar and scatter minded about the process of acquiring knowledge- was that he didn't seem like he wanted the contingency to be met. In the comic, he almost sounded like he wanted to stay and fight. Thanks again to everyone for all of the input.

[KillianHawkeye]

Ah, thanks guys that really clears it up. What threw me -as well as being previously unfamiliar and scatter minded about the process of acquiring knowledge- was that he didn't seem like he wanted the contingency to be met. In the comic, he almost sounded like he wanted to stay and fight. Thanks again to everyone for all of the input.

Well once you set up the contingency spell, you no longer have control over whether or not it goes off. It activates when the conditions are met, with or without your consent.

Still, I didn't really get the sense that Miron wanted to stay or not. It seemed more like he was explaining that he had no choice when Tarquin chastised him for retreating.

[MReav]

Ah, thanks guys that really clears it up. What threw me -as well as being previously unfamiliar and scatter minded about the process of acquiring knowledge- was that he didn't seem like he wanted the contingency to be met. In the comic, he almost sounded like he wanted to stay and fight. Thanks again to everyone for all of the input.

He didn't want to fight in the first place, but he's trying to explain to Tarquin that he's not retreating by choice. I'm guessing anyone who tries to back out of returning a favour will likely suffer some sort of consequence, but they're mature enough to understand that there might be mitigating circumstances.

That Contingency would have likely been prepared long before Tarquin called in his favour, so it's not like Miron could have predicted that Tarquin would call it in that day (Tarquin sat on it for 12 years). Miron might still be on the hook for the favour, but he's probably not going to have to get an impromptu lung removal surgery from Jacinda for trying to screw Tarquin out of paying it back.

[i6uuaq]

Not quite. Contingency and the spell it uses targets the caster. If you have a Fireball in there, you'd detonate it on yourself.

Interesting. So the question would be, what self-targeting spell confers the greatest immediate tactical advantage?

Time Stop seems a good choice.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Interesting. So the question would be, what self-targeting spell confers the greatest immediate tactical advantage?

Time Stop seems a good choice.

Time stop is a level 9 wiz/sor spell. Contingency max level is 6 (and 1/3 caster level, it's only max level 6 if the caster is 18+, often the max level is lower).

[tyckspoon]

Interesting. So the question would be, what self-targeting spell confers the greatest immediate tactical advantage?

Time Stop seems a good choice.

Contingency has a spell-level limit which means that in most play the highest level spell you can attach to it is 6. If it were possible, Time Stop would indeed be almost unquestionably the best choice. Since it's usually not, the second-best option is probably Celerity, since it grants you a generic standard action. That gives you the chance to pick and choose the spell you want to use instead of being locked into something chosen ahead of time. You do get Dazed after using the Celerity action, which sucks, but if you used that action wisely that shouldn't really matter.

[Katuko]

Contingency spells are cast instantly without wasting your regular turn, correct? If I have Protection From Arrows in my Contingency, triggered upon clapping my hands/stomping my foot, then I can still cast another spell on my turn without having wasted move or spell actions on the clap/stomp?

Similarly, I seemingly can have a Contingency that specifies another spell being cast? "If I use <attack spell> on an enemy Rogue and they do not die, activate contingent Stoneskin."

Contingencies work on literal wording, I take it. What happens if I describe a very intangible effect? "If I feel frightened for my life, Teleport to my room at home." "If I fall in love with a girl within 10 feet of myself, cast Eagle's Splendor." (Charisma boost. :D) As long as I personally recognize the situation as "I might die!" the first will activate, correct? But the second, will that activate if I'm not certain of my own emotion being "love" at the time?

Can it cast spells that doesn't target yourself per se, but the area immediately around yourself? "When I lie down in my bed at home, cast Mage's Private Sanctum"?

Final question: Contingency will obviously spend the spell slot for Contingency itself, as well as a slot for the spell you place on standby. The Contingency will at most stay for a number of days equal to your level, however. If I have a Contingency in place and I rest to regain spells, what slots will I be able to fill? Will the Contingency and <Whatever> spell slots be on "cooldown" until the Contingency is spent or vanishes from inactivity?


Anyways, even with its limits Contingency is something I would use all the time, I think.

[Kurald Galain]

Contingency spells are cast instantly without wasting your regular turn, correct?
Yes.


Contingencies work on literal wording, I take it.
Mostly so. It's generally taken to be limited to what you yourself can know and detect; for instance, you cannot set contingency to "if an evil creature comes within 100 feet" unless you have a way of knowing whether a creature is evil.


Can it cast spells that doesn't target yourself per se, but the area immediately around yourself? "When I lie down in my bed at home, cast Mage's Private Sanctum"?
Nope.


If I have a Contingency in place and I rest to regain spells, what slots will I be able to fill?
Both of them.

And yes, it's great; the main limits are that you have to be pretty high level to use it, and that you can have only one contingency running at the same time. Except if you use Craft Contingent Spell, which is generally considered pretty cheesy.

[Lossoth]

It's entirely possible that Mirion lied about the Contingency and just decided to cut and run, without angering Tarquin, right?

[AKA_Bait]

It's entirely possible that Mirion lied about the Contingency and just decided to cut and run, without angering Tarquin, right?

It's possible. We may see him again soon, if it was just the contingency going off.

[Shale]

It's entirely possible that Mirion lied about the Contingency and just decided to cut and run, without angering Tarquin, right?

Doubt it. He already used his action for that round by trying to cast Horrid Wilting.

[Lossoth]

Doubt it. He already used his action for that round by trying to cast Horrid Wilting.

True. So much for that theory...

[littlebum2002]

Doubt it. He already used his action for that round by trying to cast Horrid Wilting.

Devils advocate:

Quickened Teleport

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Devils advocate:

Quickened Teleport

Wouldn't that need to be Quickened, Silent Teleport?

GW

[Shale]

Quickened (minor action) Silent (happens in the middle of an unrelated sentence) Still (he's pulling arrows out of himself) Teleport? That's a hell of a way to blow an 11th-level spell slot.

[Kurald Galain]

Wouldn't that need to be Quickened, Silent Teleport?

No, because it is known that characters in the comic can cast one thing while talking about something else, without requiring the Silent Spell feat.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

No, because it is known that characters in the comic can cast one thing while talking about something else, without requiring the Silent Spell feat.

That sounds like a useful nugget to have on tap. Can you recall a specific occasion?

Thanks,

Grey Wolf

[hagnat]

There is an older spell called Chain Contingency
http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-and-blood-a-guidebook-to-wizards-and-sorcerers--51/chain-contingency--3392/

You could use it to trigger multiple spells. Or have different effect and such.

Suppose i am a magic theurge...
if i cast Chain Contingency on myself, can the three spells be a mix of arcane/divine spells ? the rules for the magic doesnt say anithing against it

"If i die,
* Teleport my body to the Room of Healing and Beer.
* Ressurect my body once its in a safe place
* Cast Restoration on myself once i am back to life"

[edit]
add the Crafted Contingent Spells feat, in order to cast Ressurection

[AKA_Bait]

There is an older spell called Chain Contingency
http://dndtools.eu/spells/tome-and-blood-a-guidebook-to-wizards-and-sorcerers--51/chain-contingency--3392/

You could use it to trigger multiple spells. Or have different effect and such.

I'm pretty sure that Tome & Blood was a 3.0 sourcebook that wasn't updated to 3.5.

[littlebum2002]

Quickened (minor action) Silent (happens in the middle of an unrelated sentence) Still (he's pulling arrows out of himself) Teleport? That's a hell of a way to blow an 11th-level spell slot.

Which is why you Craft Contingent Time Stop or something redunkulous like that. Which still saves your hide, but doesn't leave your team hanging like Craft Contingent Teleport.

[Shale]

Presumably when he cast the Contingency (which could have been two and a half weeks ago, or more) he wasn't planning on fighting any team battles. These guys deal in international intrigue and big-picture war planning, not dungeon crawls - this was almost certainly a measure to prevent assassination.

[JSSheridan]

A lot of people are assuming the Contingency spell was Teleport, and that makes a certain amount of sense to port back to a safe spot.

It could have been Dimension Door or another spell though. No one said Teleport specifically.

[zimmerwald1915]

A lot of people are assuming the Contingency spell was Teleport, and that makes a certain amount of sense to port back to a safe spot.

It could have been Dimension Door or another spell though. No one said Teleport specifically.
Tarquin expected Miron to no longer be available to fight, which suggests something longer-range than dimension door.

[Snails]

The advantage of a trigger like "when I stomp twice" is that it can give you a "free" spell slot (from a previous day), and it breaks action economy (you get a "free" extra action).

The advantage of some other trigger (e.g. "when an attack roll is made against me", "when I suffer more than 50 points of damage in a single round") is these more perfectly break action economy because they can set off during the middle of the resolution of someone else's action. The cost here, as Miron would tell you, is you lose flexibility, as the triggering decision is no longer under your control.

[Snails]

The slightly less far out fake out would be that Miron had a secret trigger for his Contingency, and is only pretending to be forced to retreat. But the manner the action is depicted in comic makes that hypothesis seem pretty unlikely.

[Snails]

Tarquin expected Miron to no longer be available to fight, which suggests something longer-range than dimension door.

If Dimension Door, he would be within eyesight on this featureless flat desert plain, maybe 1200 feet away or less.

[Kish]

I'm pretty sure that Tome & Blood was a 3.0 sourcebook that wasn't updated to 3.5.
Rich has already used it, however.

(Tsukiko indicated her Orb spells were evocations, which is only true of the original 3.0ed versions from Tome and Blood; the 3.5ed versions are Conjuration.)

[QuixTen]

Tarquin expected Miron to no longer be available to fight, which suggests something longer-range than dimension door.

Also, because you have to declare the destination of the spell when you set up the Contingency, the whole thing would fail unless Miron was within ~1200 ft of his sanctum at the time of the trigger.

Edit: Numbers

[Kurald Galain]

If Dimension Door, he would be within eyesight on this featureless flat desert plain, maybe 1200 feet away or less.
If Horrid Wilting was his highest-level spell (and if it was not, why didn't he cast something better?), then his maximum range with Dimension Door is 1000 feet. Not only would that be in plain view in the wide open landscape, it would still be in striking range of both Haley and Vaarsuvius.

So no, it's not Dimension Door.

[Mike Havran]

That sounds like a useful nugget to have on tap. Can you recall a specific occasion?

Thanks,

Grey WolfIn this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html) strip, Xykon does it twice and I don't think he's got a confirmed Silent Spell feat. Xykon does it fairly often, I believe.

Edit: better example here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0156.html), where Elan frees himself with a silent spell even though Bards shouldn't be able to do that.

[Composer99]

If Horrid Wilting was his highest-level spell (and if it was not, why didn't he cast something better?), [...]

If Miron is a wizard (or other prepared arcane caster), given he did not expect to get in a fight today, he may not have prepared something better for the circumstances than horrid wilting.

If he is instead a sorcerer (or other spontaneous caster), he may not know any better spells for the circumstances.

[Kurald Galain]

If Miron is a wizard (or other prepared arcane caster), given he did not expect to get in a fight today, he may not have prepared something better for the circumstances than horrid wilting.

If he is instead a sorcerer (or other spontaneous caster), he may not know any better spells for the circumstances.

That's really not the point. If he was a few levels higher, DimDoor would still leave him in plain sight and in striking range of the OOTS.

[Katuko]

Suppose i am a magic theurge...
if i cast Chain Contingency on myself, can the three spells be a mix of arcane/divine spells ? the rules for the magic doesnt say anithing against it

"If i die,
* Teleport my body to the Room of Healing and Beer.
* Ressurect my body once its in a safe place
* Cast Restoration on myself once i am back to life"

Resurrection is beyond the limit of spells that can be made into a Contingency. It is level 7, while Contingency has a max of 6. Contingent Resurrection can be found as an example Epic spell, though it will keep the used spell slot occupied after being cast. This is unlike Contingency, which I was told above does not occupy any spell slots beyond the first day.

[Bulldog Psion]

Suppose i am a magic theurge...
if i cast Chain Contingency on myself, can the three spells be a mix of arcane/divine spells ? the rules for the magic doesnt say anithing against it

"If i die,
* Teleport my body to the Room of Healing and Beer.
* Ressurect my body once its in a safe place
* Cast Restoration on myself once i am back to life"

The resurrection spell is too high level to be used, and furthermore, an inanimate dead body would be incapable of casting it, or teleport, for that matter. The spell would just fizzle when the character died, IMO.

[137beth]

No, because it is known that characters in the comic can cast one thing while talking about something else, without requiring the Silent Spell feat.

But presumeably, Tarquin would still hear the verbal component of the spell (it just wouldn't be drawn in), and would know that Miron was lying about his contingency. He might also be able to notice somatic components...
so yea, if Miron didn't really have a contingency there then it would have had to have been a quickened, still, silent spell. Which I guess would be possible with rods, but...seems rather unlikely.

[QuixTen]

The resurrection spell is too high level to be used, and furthermore, an inanimate dead body would be incapable of casting it, or teleport, for that matter. The spell would just fizzle when the character died, IMO.

I don't think that's right. The contingent spell activates on the trigger. It's cast in the round after the Contingency itself is cast. It'll activate whether or not the subject is paralyzed, bound, gagged, knocked out, etc., so I think it's safe to say it'll activate if the subject is dead. That's ignoring the fact that Resurrection is too high level. It could be Raise Dead, but if the subject died from a death effect, he's SOL.

[Bulldog Psion]

The question, of course, is whether it was really triggered by near-death, or if Miron had another, voluntary trigger (such as waggling his eyebrows up and down four times in succession, or whatever).

However, he sustained so much damage that I'm inclined to think it did trigger on its own. Actually, I'm surprised he survived that long.

And it's not really more of a loss to his team than if he stayed and died the next round. In fact, it could be advantageous to them, if he can heal up and teleport back, or if he can return later to collect their mortal remains and pay for their resurrection in the event they are slain during the battle.

[hagnat]

The resurrection spell is too high level to be used, and furthermore, an inanimate dead body would be incapable of casting it, or teleport, for that matter. The spell would just fizzle when the character died, IMO.

add the Crafted Contingent Spells feat, and ressurection spell level wouldnt be a problem
and, as far as i understood, the spell triggered by contingency is casted during the contingency spell itself, and would
a) not occupy the spell slot permanently until the spell was triggered, allowing the caster to use another spell in that slot in the following day
b) not require the caster to be concious, not even alive

[zimmerwald1915]

Miron doesn't say it's his "contingent spell" that activated. He says it's his "contingency spell".

[Cuthalion]

Either way, is it not simple that he had a Contingency spell? That teleported him? Seems to me...

[QuixTen]

Miron doesn't say it's his "contingent spell" that activated. He says it's his "contingency spell".

And we're not discussing his contingency spell. We're discussing a hypothetical contingent resurrection.

[Kish]

And we're not discussing his contingency spell. We're discussing a hypothetical contingent resurrection.
Why?......

[QuixTen]

Why?......

...Why not?

[Kish]

Because threads have topics? Because Disintegrate is spelled like that, not Disintigrate? Because your first post about "the contingent spell" was presented as contradicting a post Bulldog Psion made about the Contingency spell?

Edit: Which is not to suggest that you were the first person in this thread to mention Contingent Spell. Indeed, it didn't appear to me that that particular post of yours was based on the feat rather than the spell...but I stand corrected. Miron almost certainly doesn't have the feat.

[QuixTen]

Because threads have topics? Because Disintegrate is spelled like that, not Disintigrate? Because your first post about "the contingent spell" was presented as contradicting a post Bulldog Psion made about the Contingency spell?

Edit: Which is not to suggest that you were the first person in this thread to mention Contingent Spell. Indeed, it didn't appear to me that that particular post of yours was based on the feat rather than the spell...but I stand corrected. Miron almost certainly doesn't have the feat.

1. Threads can deviate slightly from the specific topic. Discussing the Craft Contingent Spell feat is hardly a huge deviation.

2. I appreciate the spelling correction. I will edit my signature to reflect the correct spelling.

3. When I used the phrase "contingent spell", I certainly wasn't referring to the feat, so you are correct on that. It was, admittedly, clumsy wording. However, my argument on the contingency spell's modus operandi is equally applicable to a crafted contingency.

Edit: Stuff

[JSSheridan]

Miron popped out with one of Haley's arrows.

Even if he doesn't know the exact location well, he knows Haley well enough to scry for her and has the arrow to focus his divination. Unless she still has Cloister on her.

Then he might know the area well enough to teleport back.

[mhsmith]

I absolutely could be wrong, but I can't help thinking that the point of this contingent teleport was for Giant to say to the readers "See! THIS is why you don't go overboard on spells that help you stay alive instead of helping your team win"

[Snails]

I absolutely could be wrong, but I can't help thinking that the point of this contingent teleport was for Giant to say to the readers "See! THIS is why you don't go overboard on spells that help you stay alive instead of helping your team win"

That is my pet theory, too, because I have thrown down this exact argument in certain discussions. We might even be correct.

[AstralFire]

That is my pet theory, too, because I have thrown down this exact argument in certain discussions. We might even be correct.

I think it's likely, though I have not found it a convincing argument. One way or the other, Miron was essentially out of the fight without the presence of a dedicated healer to assist him. Any of the various other spells I've seen suggested could be reasonably expected to not help against any variety of the few things which he'd consider a personal threat.

[luagha]

1. Contingency Teleport to get away is a standard villain maneuver.

2. You live to fight another day, but you're a coward who dies a thousand deaths and you just abandoned this battlefield to your enemies. If it's just a killing fight, maybe who cares, but a lot of fights in RL and D&D are not; they are about territory, wealth, and other people on the battlefield.

Maybe Miron could have used a potion to stay up but then he'd just be taking more focus the next round and maybe die past -10. Healing potions just aren't that awesome though. Maybe Durkon, going with Cleric initiative, would put the flying bite on him and it would really be done.

Miron is a powerful villain who is more concerned with his own safety than in winning any fight and he didn't prepare for this fight as for a 'win at all costs' fight but for a 'I'm going out walking in the tall grass and a wild fight has appeared' kind of fight.

[Deliverance]

Speaking of Contingency, what are the rules for Chain Contingency under 3.0/3.5? I notice that it is not part of the d20 SRD, but assume it still exists in some splatbook as it is so fun?

As I recall from second edition, it had the ability to stuff in three spells of up to level 8 that would fire sequentially either sequentially over three rounds or in parallel during one, in both cases triggering off a single condition like the regular contingency, which allowed you to do really silly powerful interesting things.

Since we aren't going to see a second edition Chain Contingency unless somebody got it houseruled in like Zz'dtri's fly spell, and since the Giant has now made use of a Contingency spell, my old hope of seeing V choose Chain Contingency rather than a blaster spell once he reaches 9th level has new life, but what are its restrictions nowadays?

[Shale]

The 3.0 version follows the same rules as Contingency, except that it's a sequence of up to three spells that go off either all at once, or one per round over three consecutive rounds. You're still limited to sixth-level spells that target you.

[Deliverance]

Okay, so the difference is a reduction in power, only taking up to 6th level spells under 3.0 rather than 8th level spells that it did under second edition. Combined with Contingency 3.0 only targeting self, that significantly changes the amount of cheese possible. Thanks, Shale.

[SlashDash]

I absolutely could be wrong, but I can't help thinking that the point of this contingent teleport was for Giant to say to the readers "See! THIS is why you don't go overboard on spells that help you stay alive instead of helping your team win"
I phrase it differently but I agree.
I would guess that in the commentary of the next book, The Giant would write something in regards of the difference between the OotS and Tarquin's party.

The major difference is, that while Tarquin's group are far stronger (higher level) they don't work together as a team.
They worry too much about their individual survival while the order work together as a team on a common goal.

It seems too much on the nose for him to not just show us how Miron lost to his own contingency, but how the Order made a tactical decision to gang up as a team on him without even questioning each other.

[137beth]

I phrase it differently but I agree.
I would guess that in the commentary of the next book, The Giant would write something in regards of the difference between the OotS and Tarquin's party.

The major difference is, that while Tarquin's group are far stronger (higher level) they don't work together as a team.
They worry too much about their individual survival while the order work together as a team on a common goal.

It seems too much on the nose for him to not just show us how Miron lost to his own contingency, but how the Order made a tactical decision to gang up as a team on him without even questioning each other.

I think that that is also partly to help contrast them with the order of the scribble. The scribblers may have been epic, but they couldn't work together at all.

[AstralFire]

I phrase it differently but I agree.
I would guess that in the commentary of the next book, The Giant would write something in regards of the difference between the OotS and Tarquin's party.

The major difference is, that while Tarquin's group are far stronger (higher level) they don't work together as a team.
They worry too much about their individual survival while the order work together as a team on a common goal.

It seems too much on the nose for him to not just show us how Miron lost to his own contingency, but how the Order made a tactical decision to gang up as a team on him without even questioning each other.

Except Tarquin's group has been specifically highlighted as being mature and coordinated.

[Shale]

When? Up until now, the only time we saw them work together in combat was when Tarquin fought the Order, and they demonstrated their total coordination via Malack shooting off a Flame Strike against orders because he disagreed violently with Tarquin's strategy.

Also, so far we have an indication that every single member of the team is working toward a different endgame.

Tarquin: The ultimate story.
Malack: An eternal kingdom of death dedicated to Nergal.
Miron: Personal profit (presumably).
Laurin: Protection for her daughter.

They're good at working past those divisions, but divisions they are.

[SlashDash]

They're good at working past those divisions, but divisions they are.

Indeed, the thing is that it is clear that Tarquin's team is just that: Tarquin's team. He made a deal with each member individually instead of all of them together.

Heck, it's clear that not a single one of them really wants to be there. Malack was forced time and time again to be there against his wishes to aid Nale (which got him killed), Miron had to be forced and Laurin bribed.
The Giant showed us how Tarquin's party flat out told Tarquin this whole thing is a stupid waste of time.

The order started off the same, with Roy binding them in a contract, but that was gone as soon as Roy shred those contracts up (after the trial in Azure city) because he didn't want to force or trick anyone to be in the party if they didn't want to.

Have you noticed that in each of the previous strips, since the army attacked them (heck even against the elemental), the entire team is working together? No one is questioning orders?
And every single one of them risk his life for the others?

They are working completely together as a team, even though in both fights the only real target is Roy, no one in the party is deciding to live. Not even Belkar, who I remind you had no problem tossing O-Chul aside just for his own survival.

The last fights are a clear indication that the order has formed itself a bond that it never had before (fights were always individually) and Tarquin's group doesn't even come close to their bond and team work.

[AstralFire]

They're good at working past those divisions, but divisions they are.

That's a fair assessment. I'm not saying that the Order isn't *more* cohesive. But Tarquin's Party is more coherent than anything we've seen of the Scribbles, and isn't really a good example of a dysfunctional team.

[Killer Angel]

That's a fair assessment. I'm not saying that the Order isn't *more* cohesive. But Tarquin's Party is more coherent than anything we've seen of the Scribbles, and isn't really a good example of a dysfunctional team.

I would say that Tarquin's group is a good example of one of the ways an evil party can work.

[MReav]

This particular chapter seems like to Team Tarquin what the Starmetal quest was for Roy, only with more Belkars and Haleys. None of the other teammates care about Tarquin's love and obsession with drama, and so they'll only do anything in this case because they have something to gain (removing a debt/getting a favour).

[SlashDash]

That's a fair assessment. I'm not saying that the Order isn't *more* cohesive. But Tarquin's Party is more coherent than anything we've seen of the Scribbles, and isn't really a good example of a dysfunctional team.

It's not that team Tarquin's is dysfunctional, it's that while they are good individual and more powerful on a case by case basis, that the order will triumph because they work together as a team.

In this instance, the lower level party will win because of their team work, not raw power.