Troubles in Legend

[Beowulf DW]

I'm trying to start up a Legend game for my friends (I'm DMing) and we're having problems before we even get off the ground.

One of my friends claims that he's already hating the system because 3 of his character concepts can't work, or so he claims.

His first concept was a sentient construct Tactician, but since Sentient Constructs get 5 skills, he say that can't work.

He then tried a Human Tactician but then decided that the spells are too boring.

He then decided to do an elf archer. First, he tried making an Elf Ranger, and was apparently unhappy that Daggers and Bolts is a slow path. Then he tried to make an archer Rogue, and gave up due to the Assassin only working on melee.

We haven't even started playing and he's already ranting against the system. What should I do?:smallfrown:

[Grod_The_Giant]

Come up with some way, even if it's a total houserule, to give his construct tactician more skills? Though to be honest, it sounds like he's already made up his mind to hate the system.

[Big Fau]

Tell him to read the system more closely, and to stop complaining.

[stack]

There's a feat to let you use history to cover all the knowledge uses that a tactician needs for standard track abilities, which I believe was made just for this sort of situation. As for the spell list being boring...compared to what? Spell lists grow with more material, but it covers a pretty good range already.

A Legend archer seems a lot less frustrating to build than a 3.X archer (no pile of feats required for basic proficiency, less damage lag issues compared to melee). Heck, take discipline of the serpent and the way of the gun feat. Now you are a master of trick shooting.

Feat:
Savvy Librarian [Skill]
If it exists, you’ve read about it.
Prerequisites: Geography or History as a trained
skill
Benefit: Choose either Geography or History.
You gain a +2 feat bonus to the chosen skill.
Additionally, whenever you would attempt a
Knowledge skill check of a type relevant to a
creature against a creature of that type (Medicine
against a [Humanoid], for example), you may
make a skill check with the chosen skill instead.

So point number one is a non-issue. If that's not good enough, let him trade bab for more skills like a rogue does.

[MagnusExultatio]

His first concept was a sentient construct Tactician, but since Sentient Constructs get 5 skills, he say that can't work.
Full Buy In.


He then tried a Human Tactician but then decided that the spells are too boring.
I found the spells pretty decent, but this is personal preference. Perhaps he could multiclass Tactician spells to something else?


He then decided to do an elf archer. First, he tried making an Elf Ranger, and was apparently unhappy that Daggers and Bolts is a slow path.
You could allow him to switch his track speeds around.


Then he tried to make an archer Rogue, and gave up due to the Assassin only working on melee.
Only Circle 5 of Assassin needs to be in melee, but this is fair enough.

[Beowulf DW]

Thanks. I sort of suspect that he simply doesn't understand the system very well, because I honestly don't think there are all that many concepts that can't be achieved in Legend. Thing is, I have no idea how to phrase that without sounding patronizing or insulting.

[stack]

Yeah, outside of polymorph/wildshaping and summoning there isn't much I have seen that can't be worked out reasonably.

Ask what he wants to do, then figure out how to do it. Elf archer-ranger? Default ranger works, let him switch around tracks if he wants daggers and bolts faster, or do what I mentioned above and multiclass or FBI to get serpent and take the way of the gun feat. Heck, assassin works fine, even C5 doesn't specify a melee attack, just melee range (which is still a few square by the time to get a 5th circle ability since melee range scales with level just like the other range increments).

[Grod_The_Giant]

Thanks. I sort of suspect that he simply doesn't understand the system very well, because I honestly don't think there are all that many concepts that can't be achieved in Legend. Thing is, I have no idea how to phrase that without sounding patronizing or insulting.
Figure out what he wants, then say "hey, I did some digging, and it turns out that you can accomplish X by doing Y and Z. Cool, huh?"

[Beowulf DW]

Oh, that should work perfectly! Thanks.

[Draz74]

I gotta agree, it is annoying that Daggers and Bolts is Slow by default.

I've made some good elf archer builds by being a Rogue with Guild Initiation. Esoterica Radica fast, Reign of Arrows medium, Battle's Tempering slow.

As stack indicated, it's also easy to make an effective Construct Tactician using the Savvy Librarian feat. Or by not actually being a Sentient Construct, but still having the track (via Full Buy-In or Guild Initiation or even Shaman's Path). I sometimes use this trick with Sentient Construct, not just because of its low skills, but because INT/DEX is an unfortunate set of key ability scores to work with.

EDIT: People are also right that there are lots of tracks to make archery effective besides Reign of Arrows. Smiting and Heroica are two good ones.