[3.5] Unarmed Handbook?

[Firechanter]

In all these years, I never really bothered with unarmed combat. I know that Monks are terribad and Unarmed Swordsages are reputed as a decent option. But I don't really know how to do it. Is there any guide or handbook for basic and advanced unarmed badassery? What are the strengths and weaknesses of such a concept? Is Swordsage really worth it, or are possibly Warblades even better?

Fwiw, I'd like to build an unarmed human; no fancy templates, no absurdities like deformations or tentacles. Also, psionics, incarnum and pact magic are unavailable in this setting.
Any pointers for me?

[Erik Vale]

Unarmed natural attacks or unarmed completely unarmed?
Well, not completely. Unless you like headbutting :smalltongue:.

[DeltaEmil]

Getting the feat Superior Unarmed Strike and its prerequisite Improved Unarmed Strike might be necessary for a good unarmed warrior that deals enough damage with its unarmed strikes.

The spell Greater Mighty Wallop is also considered a must-have, since it increases the bludgeoning weapon you wield, and unarmed strikes are generally bludgeoning weapons.

However, spiked gauntlets are an okay alternative. They only cost a few gold, and allow you to deal lethal damage with your unarmed strike and also count as armed, so you don't have to take the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, and of course can be enchanted to have useful effects.

[DMVerdandi]

There are two primary ways that you can go about doing this, melee/martial and magical.

For martial, generally, you are going to want improved unarmed attack, superior unarmed attack, snap kick, power attack and versatile unarmed attack. Those are the basic striking feats.

TOB Lets you use all maneuvers with any weapon, thus an unarmed fighter can become very cool using them, and have some interesting attacks.

Without TOB, generally, you are going to want to dip into barbarian 1(spirit lion totem) for pounce. After that, taking a few levels of fighter nets you all the feats you are going to need to make it work and more. More over, you are going to want to use a gauntlet or ward cestus as your weapons so that they can be enchanted. The ancestral weapon feat also makes enchanting it a fair bit cheaper.

WITH spells, generally, a spontaneous casting cleric is pretty boss. Especially with the war domain. Additionally, picking up intuitive attack is a plus, as you can become more SAD with wisdom. Also picking up a monk's robe is definitely a plus. The divine buffs are definitely a boon when creating an unarmed combatant.

On the arcane side, the wizard is generally pretty decent. Take the martial wizard ACF to get fighter feats, and the spontaneous divination acf, because you would have to be high not to trade one feat to be able to spontaneously cast with a wizard, even if all you get is divination spells. They are definitely potent in their own right, even towards such a build.
Taking arcane strike also gives you a decent way to pull out some extra damage as well, if you have slots to burn. Smiting spell is an alternative if you really just want to punch people in the face with a certain spell.
Generally, you want to head towards the Abjurant Champion class, as it gives you spellcasting level as BAB. Fantastic.
Possibly consider taking a level of monk with the carmindine monk/kung-fu genius feat. It allows you to obtain int to all your various monk class features to key off of intelligence.
With a monk's robe, this gets REAL good.
Wizards also have pretty decent buffs, de-buffs, and terrain manipulating spells. Use those to your advantage. Punching someone in the head with a ray of idiocy kind of drives home a point.


Really, I would suggest even further, using the spell point versions of the spellcasters (If you have access to the spell point variant, don't use the spontaneous cleric, but take the spontaneous domain casting ACF). They are MUCH better, a bit more user friendly, and make more sense fluff-wise.

So, to close, your feat choice is always going to be somewhat similar, throughout all of the builds, but the magic using classes are going to be a bit more complex, but IMO have a rule of cool all their own, and are subjectively more awesome, if not simply more useful.

[Firechanter]

Thanks for the swift replies, guys. =) Quick question: why Power Attack? afair, unarmed striked count as Light weapons and as such don't benefit from PA. Or do they?

Looking at the Swordsage maneuvers, I'd probably focus on Diamond Mind, Setting Sun and Tiger Claw. And pretty much ignore Shadow Hand because I got another character already who went that route (armed, though).

I guess I'll avoid spellcasters for this one. Also, spell points are out anyway.

Will get back to this later, gotta go now.

[Gwendol]

Dip monk for two levels and get feats you would not normally qualify for. I'd get improved grapple, for some versatility.

[DeltaEmil]

Thanks for the swift replies, guys. =) Quick question: why Power Attack? afair, unarmed striked count as Light weapons and as such don't benefit from PA. Or do they?
You can use Power Attack with unarmed strikes.

You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies.

[Ortesk]

Unarmed Swordsage 2/Battledancer1/Barbarian 1/ Fist of the forest 3/Unarmed Swordsage 13 works best for me

Superior unarmed strike, Imp Natural Weapon, Greater mighty wqallop, Monks belt. You have an effective unarmed level of 24, Imp NA increases it 1 size, FoF is good for 2, and greater Mighty wallop bumps it 4. So your be hitting for alot of d6 there

Now look at having Dex/Con/Wis/Cha to ac (Add a level of ninja with ascetic featy and uyou can have INT)

You should have a very nice AC, and be packing a hella punch

[danzibr]

Unarmed Swordsage 2/Battledancer1/Barbarian 1/ Fist of the forest 3/Unarmed Swordsage 13 works best for me

Superior unarmed strike, Imp Natural Weapon, Greater mighty wqallop, Monks belt. You have an effective unarmed level of 24, Imp NA increases it 1 size, FoF is good for 2, and greater Mighty wallop bumps it 4. So your be hitting for alot of d6 there

Now look at having Dex/Con/Wis/Cha to ac (Add a level of ninja with ascetic featy and uyou can have INT)

You should have a very nice AC, and be packing a hella punch
I'm pretty sure FotF doesn't work that way by RAW.

[Darrin]

I'm pretty sure FotF doesn't work that way by RAW.

The designers borked the RAW. It's probably best to go by intent with FotF.

[Ramza00]

Note some of the items choices are suboptimal but I included it for the sake of being complete.


Feat Arcane Schooling (Players Guide to Faerun 1st Level Feat): Treat yourself as having 1 level of Wizard, Sorcerer, Bard for the purpose of spell trigger items (aka wands)
Blood Wind (Sorc / Wiz 1): You can attack with all your natural weapons at ranged as a full round attack. (You have mastered kung fu to the point you can channel your chi in the air and attack with phantom limbs.)
Wraithstrike (Sorc / Wiz 2): All your weapons including unarmed strikes only need a touch attack. (You have mastered kung fu to the point you can do significant damage with just a touch like a true master).
Wings of Cover (Sorc 2): You grant yourself total cover as an immediate action. (You have mastered kung fu to the point you can defend from any attack if you know the attack is coming.)
Greater Mighty Wallop (Sorc / Wiz 3): You increase the size damage of bludgeoning weapons. A 2d10 (average 11 damage) weapon with 4 size increases at cl 16, will do 12d8 (average 54 damage). (You have mastered kung fu where even a touch is deadly.)
Bracers of Striking (Magic of Faerun, 1310 gp) you are treated as having improved unarmed strike (if you do not take monk or unarmed swordsage levels. Remember, If you have improved unarmed strike you can attack with any body part not just your hands thus you may use a two handed weapon as your main weapon with power attack (such as a great sword or some form of mace) and attack with you unarmed strikes via twf and attack with your feat, or if you have claws or something you can attack with your hands and then do secondary natural weapons.
Wyrmfang Amulet (1350 gp) all your natural weapons are considered magic
Bands of Blood Rage (2600 gp) +5 moral damage to all your attacks for 1 round in exchange for 5 damage
Bracers of Blinding Strike (5000 gp) +2 competence bonus on initiative, 3/day swift action 1 extra attack does not stack with haste
Ring of Adamantine Touch (6000 gp) all your melee weapon attacks (natural or weapon) are treated as adamantine
Gauntlets of Weaponry Arcane (6000 gp), weapons are treated as silver and magic for damage reduction
Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic 10000 gp) you have improved unarmed strike, improved natural attack unarmed strike, and deal 1 con damage on a critical hit with a natural weapon.
Spiked Gauntlets (without houserules) is considered a separated weapon type than an unarmed strike, as much as a sword or dagger is. You are also not proficient with Spiked Gauntlets. Yet I still would recommend some spiked gauntlets for you can wand chamber them, and just use your unarmed strikes with your feat, elbows, headbutts, etc. Spiked Gauntlets allow you two wand chambers while still being armed. You only take the -4 to attack rolls due to proficiency when you try to attack with the spiked gauntlets
A quarterstaff which is a double weapon you are proficient with. Since it is a double weapon you can do two more wand chambers while still being armed (so that makes a total of four)

---------------------

In sum you want a wizard or sorcerer ally (or cohort) who will make you nice magical items, in exchange you beat **** up for them.

Note if you can get a lot of natural weapons for cheap I would recommend adding them to your attack routine as well since you don't take penalties for natural weapons and almost all your unarmed strike boosters help natural weapons as well. Unforutnately with totemist, psionics, and binder out it is hard to do this without going druid, and if you do so you are just a playing a druid who also hits with unarmed strikes.

If you don't mind a level dip or two, and don't care about flurry. Monk 2/X 1/Feat Rogue 17 with Ascetic Rogue. Gives you 2 Bonus Feats from Monk, whatever X is, and 9 Bonus Feats from Feat Rogue, plus all the benefits Rogue gives.

[Captnq]

Well, lets see...


Necklace of natural Weaponry
Bracers of striking
Ward Cestus
Battle Gauntlets

They all modify and allow you to add WSAs to your unarmed strike. With the Kensi class, one could, in theory, and a GMW spell cast to grant +5 EB, have a total combined EB/WSA of +43 on your fist.

Of course that's TO, mind you.

Feel free to check out my sig and look at the weapon handbook for insights and math into weapons for "unarmed" attacks. If you wish to add anything, just PM me, or toss me a PM when you are done with your handbook and I'll gleefully steal from it with gay abandon. Gay as in happy. Not the modern term. It's an old saying and I like old sayings. Stop judging me. Bugger off.

[danzibr]

The designers borked the RAW. It's probably best to go by intent with FotF.
In a recent build I was going to use these two super quick damage increases, but then reread and realized I couldn't.

Still, were I the DM, I'd totally allow it.

[Curmudgeon]

I'm pretty sure FotF doesn't work that way by RAW.
The only thing that makes the RAW work is if "If your unarmed attack already deals this amount of damage" refers to non-FotF unarmed damage. This means successive levels don't keep incrementing on the Monk unarmed damage table. Otherwise, a level 2 FotF character with no higher previous unarmed damage would increment on the Monk damage table from 1d8 to 1d10 because the Fist of the Forest Unarmed Damage table value is the same for FotF 1 and FotF 2. However, that disagrees with the text which states: "When you attain 3rd level, this damage increases to 1d10 points."

So, compute your non-FotF unarmed damage, then look at your FotF Unarmed Damage table entry. If your unarmed damage already deals exactly this amount (not more), increment once on the Monk damage table.

[Firechanter]

How many attacks can I get when fighting Unarmed?

I mean, according to the Monk class description, there is no such thing as an "off-hand attack" with Unarmed Strike, so apparently TWF is impossible.
So Dancing/Raging Mongoose also adds only 1 and 2 extra attacks, not 2 and 4?

Then I know there is 3.0 Circle Kick (1 extra attack, but you must switch targets),
and ToB Snap Kick (which seems to be the "Unarmed TWF" thing).
Can you maybe combine Snap Kick with Dancing/Raging Mongoose for 2 or 4 extra attacks?

If I do take a couple of Monk levels, how does Flurry of Blows stack with BAB from all other levels?

[A.A.King]

If Dragon Magazine is allowed you could go for the City Brawler Variant of the Barbarian. You lose Medium Armor, Shield & Martial Weapon Proficiency but you gain Unarmed Strike and Two-Weapon Fighting (For Unarmed Strikes Only) in return, both for free. Take two levels of Barbarian and use ACF's to get Pounce and Improved Trip and then go Warblade so that at level 3 you can pick up Superior Unarmed Strike to get monk like progression without any monk levels.

Bloodclaw Master PrC will also be very nice if you go Barbarian / Warblade. 2 Levels remove the -2 Penalty on offhand attacks with unarmed strike and allow you to add your full strength bonus to your off-hand attack.

[Prime32]

A handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=10747). It's primarily aimed at monks, but most of the advice is applicable to any unarmed type.

[Ruethgar]

Classes to Keep in Mind

Dashing Step, City Brawler, Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1
Kensai Fighter(Ward Cestus) 2
Chaos Martial Monk 2
Swrodsage 2
Moon Warded Ranger 2
Battle Dancer 1


Circle Kick! It wasn't updated to 3.5 as far as I know so it is still in effect and is the single most powerful feat for unarmed fighters, especially if you get reach.

Snap Kick is good as well and as has been said Superior Unarmed Strike is great. Do note however, that it does not stack with Unarmed Swordsage or Battle Dancer and is a bad idea for anyone just dipping in monk as you will loose damage. As to the armor stacking(Swordsage, Battle Dancer, etc.), remember that Swordsages only get their wisdom to AC in light armor meaning it cannot stack with Battle Dancer or Monk, but can stack with a Moon Warded Ranger 2.

[Karnith]

Circle Kick! It wasn't updated to 3.5 as far as I know so it is still in effect and is the single most powerful feat for unarmed fighters, especially if you get reach.
According to the mothership (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x), Circle Kick was revised to 3.5 as the much-less-impressive Roundabout Kick (Complete Warrior, p. 105).

[Ruethgar]

According to the mothership (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20050110x), Circle Kick was revised to 3.5 as the much-less-impressive Roundabout Kick (Complete Warrior, p. 105).

Ssshh, no one needs to know. :P

Going for an Eldritch Claw Warlock can be a very powerful choice as well. Being an anthropomorphic swarm is nice for the AoE auto-hit factor when combined with other things like improved trip and skirmish.

[Ramza00]

How many attacks can I get when fighting Unarmed?

I mean, according to the Monk class description, there is no such thing as an "off-hand attack" with Unarmed Strike, so apparently TWF is impossible.
So Dancing/Raging Mongoose also adds only 1 and 2 extra attacks, not 2 and 4?

Then I know there is 3.0 Circle Kick (1 extra attack, but you must switch targets),
and ToB Snap Kick (which seems to be the "Unarmed TWF" thing).
Can you maybe combine Snap Kick with Dancing/Raging Mongoose for 2 or 4 extra attacks?

If I do take a couple of Monk levels, how does Flurry of Blows stack with BAB from all other levels?

According to the faq you can twf with your unarmered strikes.

Pretty much it boils down to this, the two weapon fighting special ability in the srd states that you can two weapon fight if you have a primary hand as well as an offhand (aka two hands). The two weapon fighting feet on the other hand does not state the requirement of two hands because the two weapon special ability in the SRD is the primary source and the feat is just a second source which just lessens the penalties of twf.

[ArqArturo]

The only time I ever played a monk, an ogre grabbed me, and I was looking at the Flurry of Blows rules in 3.5:

When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus column on Table: The Monk. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to -1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.

When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus × 1½ or ×½) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows.

In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so.

So I asked my DM if the head counted as part of my Unarmed strike. He said yes.

So I headbanged a ogre to death.

[Firechanter]

Hmh, hmh, hmm.

Alright, so let's see... how can we get optimal damage output; stacking attacks or focusing on damage increases?

For testing purposes I'm gonna look at a 12th level build

Warblade 10 / Monk 2:
BAB 11/6/1
Snap Kick 9/9/4/-1
TWF 7/7/7/2/-3
Flurry 5/5/5/5/0/-5
Dancing Mongoose 5/5/5/5/5/0/-5
Circle Kick adds another one, but must be a different target.
All at 1d10 damage (with Superior Unarmed Strike)

Though, stacking -6 worth of penalties doesn't seem terribly clever to me. "Flurry of Misses", anyone? It's mitigated a bit by 10 Full BAB levels, so it's a lot better than stacking all these extra attacks on Swordsage, but still.

A couple of Bloodclaw Master levels may be clever.

How far would you go - where is the ideal balance point between bonus attacks and attack bonus?

[Curmudgeon]

According to the faq you can twf with your unarmered strikes.
Yes, you can. However, you can't fight with two weapons unless you have two weapons, and your unarmed strike is only a single weapon. What the FAQ said was that you can use two-weapon fighting with one of the two weapons being an unarmed strike. The specific example paired sais (special Monk weapons) with unarmed strikes.
If the monk in our example has two sais to use with the flurry, plus the off-hand attack, she can use both in the flurry (in which case she must make the off-hand attack with an unarmed strike) or one sai for the off-hand attack and one with the flurry. The sai used in the off-hand attack is not available for the flurry and vice versa.

[Gwendol]

Note that the "no off hand" rules are limited to the monk and flurry of blows. Hence the recommended dip.

[Ramza00]

How is your DM with alingment? Would he allow mixing barbarin with monk?

[Gavinfoxx]

1.) Be a Barbarian
2.) Take Whirling Frenzy (System Resource Document or Unearthed Arcana) or Ferocity (Cityscape Web Enhancement)
3.) Take Spirit Lion Totem (Complete Champion)
4.) Take Wolf Totem (System Resource Document or Unearthed Arcana)
5.) Take Skilled City Dweller-ride for tumble (Cityscape Web Enhancement)
6.) Take City Brawler (Dragon Magazine #349)
7.) Take Streetfighter (Cityscape Web Enhancement)
8.) Get the feat Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle)
9.) Get a Monk's Belt (Dungeon Master's Guide or System Resource Document. Before you get access to this, just wear light armor like normal.)
10.) Get a Necklace of Natural attacks (Savage Species, this lets you enchant unarmed strike with things beyond +#'s; very useful! You can get the smoking property to get a miss chance on your body, for example, or magebane or sure-striking!)
11.) Get a Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic)
12.) Take Snap Kick (Tome of Battle)
13.) Take mobility skill tricks of various sorts, especially to do with charging (Complete Scoundrel)
14.) You now have a fantastic and brutal, hard style martial artist!

[Firechanter]

Alignment is a thing, but there is the precedence that in our games, the alignment restriction for Bards has been nixed. So Barb + Monk may be allowable, too. Never turned up because so far nobody wanted either Barb or Monk. ;)

Dragon Mag is out, first and foremost because we don't have them.

OTOH, we do have gloves bestowing Enhancement bonuses to Unarmed strikes.

Thanks for the ideas about the Barbarian, will have a look at these options. ^^

[danzibr]

Yes, you can. However, you can't fight with two weapons unless you have two weapons, and your unarmed strike is only a single weapon. What the FAQ said was that you can use two-weapon fighting with one of the two weapons being an unarmed strike. The specific example paired sais (special Monk weapons) with unarmed strikes.

1.) Be a Barbarian
2.) Take Whirling Frenzy (System Resource Document or Unearthed Arcana) or Ferocity (Cityscape Web Enhancement)
3.) Take Spirit Lion Totem (Complete Champion)
4.) Take Wolf Totem (System Resource Document or Unearthed Arcana)
5.) Take Skilled City Dweller-ride for tumble (Cityscape Web Enhancement)
6.) Take City Brawler (Dragon Magazine #349)
7.) Take Streetfighter (Cityscape Web Enhancement)
8.) Get the feat Superior Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle)
9.) Get a Monk's Belt (Dungeon Master's Guide or System Resource Document. Before you get access to this, just wear light armor like normal.)
10.) Get a Necklace of Natural attacks (Savage Species, this lets you enchant unarmed strike with things beyond +#'s; very useful! You can get the smoking property to get a miss chance on your body, for example, or magebane or sure-striking!)
11.) Get a Fanged Ring (Dragon Magic)
12.) Take Snap Kick (Tome of Battle)
13.) Take mobility skill tricks of various sorts, especially to do with charging (Complete Scoundrel)
14.) You now have a fantastic and brutal, hard style martial artist!
Isn't the point of City Brawler to be able to TWF with unarmed strikes? But by RAW you can't? That's silly.

[Feytalist]

How about Black Blood Cultist? Sure, it's natural weapons instead of unarmed attack, but it's a pretty decent option. Get claw, bite and rend attacks while raging.

Also amusingly, you need IUA to enter but the class' main shtick is natural attacks. So... yeah.

[Darrin]

Isn't the point of City Brawler to be able to TWF with unarmed strikes? But by RAW you can't? That's silly.

You can TWF with unarmed strike just fine as either your primary weapon or your offhand weapon.

The sticking point is can you TWF with unarmed strike as your primary and offhand weapon at the same time? RAW isn't clear here. It boils down to whether your DM allows unarmed strike to be multiple striking surfaces or just one abstract weapon.

[Karnith]

You can TWF with unarmed strike just fine as either your primary weapon or your offhand weapon.
City Brawler only gives you the benefit of TWF when fighting unarmed, though, which is the problem.

[Curmudgeon]

City Brawler only gives you the benefit of TWF when fighting unarmed, though, which is the problem.
Since D&D is an exception-based rule system, this really isn't a problem. You can't (normally) use TWF with unarmed strikes alone. The City Brawler ACF creates an exception to this normal rule specifically for Barbarians, with benefits increasing as you gain more Barbarian levels.

[SoraWolf7]

All this talk about Unarmed attacks is making me want to make an Enlightened Fist build so I can punch my spells into my enemies. Even better when I can cast some of those spells that were mentioned by Ramza, due to Wizard Casting.

[Ruethgar]

Warblade 10 / Monk 2:
BAB 11/6/1
Snap Kick 9/9/4/-1
TWF 7/7/7/2/-3
Flurry 5/5/5/5/0/-5
Dancing Mongoose 5/5/5/5/5/0/-5
Circle Kick adds another one, but must be a different target.
All at 1d10 damage (with Superior Unarmed Strike)

Because you took monk levels, you instead only deal 1d8 and it only increases with monk levels. If they were any other class, city brawler, pugilist, unarmed swordsage, anything, it would be 1d10 and increase with the feat as normal. I would throw in a Ward Cestus Kensai fighter level in place of a warblade level. It is automatic +1 attack and damage with a ward cestus(which count as unarmed attacks) and keeps the full BAB, anything to get a little more hit.

[Elderand]

Is homebrew out of the question ? Because teramach is pretty sweet for this sort of things.