Why does the Warlock's Charm allow Mindsight, and other ways to make them better.

[aleucard]

First, the main question. I'm a BIG fan of Mindsight just from looking at it, but I'm unable to find an explanation as to why Charm allows for this feat. It doesn't give any kind of Telepathy quality from what I can see. If there's another way to get that feat without going outside Warlock, let me know.

Which brings me to my next question. How would I go about making a good Warlock without going outside the class (no dips, no PrC's)? I'm starting at level 4 with rolls of 18, 16, 15, 15, 15, 13 for my stats, and the Eldritch Glaive invocation and Eldritch Claws feat. I want to be at least moderately effective at all ranges, though I'm going to be within 30' more often than not. I'm also going to be making weapons and various Wondrous items, so expect me to get those when I can. As far as Skills go, I'm going to immediately claim Craft (weaponmaking), Use Magic Device, and Spellcraft. If I put any of the higher rolls in for Int, Sense Motive and Concentration are on the top of the list.

I'm almost guaranteed to be a Human, so 1 extra feat is available, as well as the 1 extra and 3 Least invocations. Spiderwalk, Baleful Utterance, and See the Unseen are my current primary candidates, though feel free to suggest better ones. I'm in a team with a Rogue blacksmith, a Paladin, a Ranger (DMPC, likely to leave soon), and a Sorcerer (though the guy playing is of unknown ability, likely a newbie). As stated before, I'm likely to be close-range, and need to be able to handle several situations competently. I do not see myself becoming the 'Face' in the slightest, and my stealthiness is going to be minimal until I get something Invisibility-ish (being able to float down here noiselessly by way of Fell Flight will help immensely). I'm also wanting to be highly mobile, so any way to boost speed and add movement types would be appreciated.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide!

Who here caught the Pennywise reference?


EDIT: Apparently, my DM who's going to be switched out is likely to switch his Ranger for a Bard, though he's undecided on if he will or not. Keep that in mind.

EDIT #2: For feats, my current ideas are Weapon Finesse and Maximize Spell-Like Ability (Eldritch Blast) when I get access to it. Finesse should be obvious (both claws and glaive are either natural or weaponlike spell, so Light, so Finessable), but Maximize looks like it's got much better average damage, and I like being able to reasonably guarantee that something I point at goes *POOF* in a single shot. Knowing exactly how much damage I'm doing helps.

EDIT #3: I have the base character here. [REDACTED: See below for details] I'll need to update it to level 5 for the next session, which is going to be several weeks at least thanks to very screwy schedule conflicts with the rest of the party (if 2+ people are missing, why bother?). While I don't like having to wait so long for the game, this does give me more leeway for hammering out a direction to take the character. Right now, my main questions to you are as follows.

1) What do I NEED if I'm going to be a Close primary and Medium secondary damage dealer, with maneuverability and some battlefield control? Keep in mind that I'm allowed to be creative if there isn't a RAW item, feat, etc. to fit the bill adequately, as long as I don't outpace the other characters (a Paladin that may be switched out for Barbarian later, a Bard, and a Rogue).

2) What would be a good idea to do with the feats I will be getting? Aside from Weapon Finesse, Sudden Maximize SLA (applies to all things EB, does more damage than Empower for no noticeable cost, and doesn't feel as cheesy as Quicken), Craft Magic Arms and Armor (the latter of which is going to be used heavily), I have little idea what would be truly useful for my character aside from additional invocations (which I will almost definitely be getting, though not THAT many). Sure, I could get Sudden Empower as well, but then I'd start feeling over-specialized for damage (do any Essences have anything that could be affected by either?).

If any further assistance can be provided, I'll be grateful. Thanks for what you've given already! :smallredface:

EDIT #4: Alright, I updated my sheet so far, though it didn't let me edit the sheet on Drive, so I had to delete the old version and upload the new one. Here. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzl2lkdgmcSTUkZORGwtYXR5U3c/edit?usp=sharing Right now, my main concerns are where to put the excess cash I got. I don't particularly like having TOO much liquid, but if there's something that will help that I didn't catch that's available for a guy with Craft Wondrous Item and access to whatever caster levels and spells are needed (being the adopted kid of an Arcane College has perks), then I'm all ears. Another thing I'm watching for is potential feats for the future, still. Any help is appreciated!

[The Glyphstone]

You're missing a step. Charm does not allow Mindsight directly, but it qualifies you for the Mindbender PrC, which gives Telepathy at 1st level and still advances invocations/casting. That, in turn, allows Mindsight.

[nedz]

Charm allows you to qualify for Mindbender (CArc p54)
A 1 level dip in Mindbender gets you Telepathy (Su) 100'
This allows you to take the Mindsight feat
Profit.


Ed: Mindbended

[aleucard]

You're missing a step. Charm does not allow Mindsight directly, but it qualifies you for the Mindbender PrC, which gives Telepathy at 1st level and still advances invocations/casting. That, in turn, allows Mindsight.

So I advance my Caster Level, number of Invocations, and Eldritch Blast as if I'm leveling Warlock, and nothing else? Fine by me, I'm not too interested in most of that anyway (DR and Energy Resistance is nice for a squishy trying to get into melee, though). Any other fun things for a melee-oriented switch-hitter to take? The mental stuff gives me ideas for ways to screw with people, or interrogate them for info (better educated is better prepared, donchaknow). Being able to function as a poor man's radar is already useful, but I can use the extra kick.

[aleucard]

Houston, we have a problem.

Mindbender is Nongood only, and it uses 3 skills I'm unlikely to find a good use for. While the skills can be dumped and I can use the free points for Skill Tricks (any good ones for me?), the Nongood alignment is a bit of a snag. Any other way to pull it off for me? My ability to persuade my DM to allow it regardless of my alignment is unknown.

EDIT: Also, it might be a good idea to keep in mind that I need the first 4 levels first, and am going to be playing this character from there on. I also need to have it done and in the DM's email before the game, which is in a little under 30 hours. I'm not trying to be a ****, but I kinda need a little fast work on the initial levels with this in mind.

[Fax Celestis]

What's the problem with nongood?

Also tell your DM that alignment prereqs are stupid.

[nedz]

Skills: Bluff 4 ranks , Diplomacy 4 ranks , Intimidate 4 ranks , Sense Motive 4 ranks

These all look reasonable for a Warlock, but yeah - if you go for a PrC you gotta pay the Tax. The return is well worth it though: Mindsight 100', this means you can dump a lot of the sensing invocations.

You also need Arcane CL 5, so no entry before 6th.

Oh and you only take 1 level of Mindbender.

As for the alignment: play CN, AKA I'm not evil, honest.
There is also LN and N available too.

[The Glyphstone]

Yeah, Mindbender 2 through 10 are garbage. It's 1 level-dip, then back to Warlock.

It's not that hard to play Chaotic Neutral instead of Chaotic Good (since you are balking at Non-Good and Warlocks must be either chaotic or evil, you were clearly planning on being CG). You can still do good things, good deeds, and so forth, just with that little tiny core of self-doubt or selfishness that prevents it from being actual true altruism. Never even needs to come out in play.


There is also LN and N available too.
Not off a Warlock chassis.

[aleucard]

My interpretation of Good is having intentions of helping others. Being an absolute monster in the execution is something different, as long as you don't go around the 'Greater Good' bend, so to speak.

Neutral is being largely indifferent to others. You're not going to go out of your way to either majorly help or hurt people. This doesn't fit into my playstyle in the slightest.

I already asked if he'd be willing to let me play a Good character with a nongood-only PrC, but if it's off the table, I'm not too sure what his definition of CN is, and I'd rather not push too hard.

[nedz]

You also asked about feats.

From level 6 your feats should be Extra Invocation, Extra Invocation and Extra Invocation; though Quicken SLA is good also.

If you have good strength, and you are Glaiving, then why not try Power Attack ? It might not fly with all DMs, YMMV.

There are other options, Snowbluff should be along in a few minutes with a handbook.

[Segev]

Honestly, the skill prereqs for Mindbender combined with Beguiling Influence (the Least Invocation) are, by themselves, a +10 to the social skills. This is pretty mighty, socially speaking. Use those on your Charmed minion, and he might remain Friendly even if you let the Charm wear off! Combined with Telepathy's lack of need to speak languages, you can use these massive diplomatic and bluff bonuses on anybody with a language. And with Mindsight, you know they're there to be talked to.

[The Glyphstone]

My interpretation of Good is having intentions of helping others. Being an absolute monster in the execution is something different, as long as you don't go around the 'Greater Good' bend, so to speak.

Neutral is being largely indifferent to others. You're not going to go out of your way to either majorly help or hurt people. This doesn't fit into my playstyle in the slightest.

I already asked if he'd be willing to let me play a Good character with a nongood-only PrC, but if it's off the table, I'm not too sure what his definition of CN is, and I'd rather not push too hard.

This is why talking to the DM early is always important, rather than last-minute like this seems to be.

Personally, I see the difference between Good and Neutral as a question of selflessness. A Good person will go out of their way to help people, no questions asked, because it is The Right Thing To Do. A Neutral person will also go out of their way to help people, but they'll do it because of a reward or payoff they expect - possibly a monetary one, just as often a reputation-based one of respect or fame. From the outside, they can look identical, and even on the inside, they can be very similar. It's up to you, though.

[Big Fau]

Not off a Warlock chassis.

The Warlock has no stipulations attached to being Non-Chaotic and Non-Evil.

[nedz]

The Warlock has no stipulations attached to being Non-Chaotic and Non-Evil.

CArc p7
Alignment: Any Evil or Any Chaotic

[Big Fau]

CArc p7
Alignment: Any Evil or Any Chaotic

And then they never tell you what happens if you have an LG Warlock. There's no penalties whatsoever for being one.

[Kane0]

Obligatory Warlock handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=265455).

So level 4, pure warlock? You're going to have a bad time, especially since that means no Hellfire Warlock.

But anyway, Baleful utterance is a must have at low levels for sheer utility, and beguiling utterance is a good second if you are face. Take up either Eldritch Chain or Spear and either Eldritch Claw or Glaive.
Max your UMD at all times and make heavy use of any expendables you can get your hands on, and look for any way to boost damage. Mortalbane is a good start.

Extra invocation to grab you extra lesser invocations if pretty much a must, and chilling tentacles should be your first greater invocation. Charm isnt that good on its own if you arent going to use it to get into mindbender since you can get a wand or something of it. Flight is a big one, as is flee the scene if you are going to be anywhere near your targets.

Quicken SLA should be the meta-SLA feat you should aim for. Maximize and empower aren't as fantastic but YMMV.

[Urpriest]

Pretty sure you won't be able to do Maximize SLA at level 4.

Eldritch Claws falls behind without iteratives, so you should probably have Improved Unarmed Strike so you can take Beast Strike later (I'm presuming since you're planning on taking Eldritch Claws that you're good with Dragon material).

There are other ways to get Telepathy, but they generally involve more resources. Shape Soulmeld: Shedu Crown is one, IIRC.

[nedz]

I'm not a fan of Baleful utterance, far too situational.

Summon Swarm is awesome at low level, but you will want to swap it.

Spiderwalk is very useful, unless you intend to take Eldritch Fight early, in which case you will need it less — though UMDing a Wand of Web and Spiderwalking inside is a good trick.

[Kane0]

I'm not a fan of Baleful utterance, far too situational.


I don't see how. It can break any single non-magical object as a standard action, or any number of breakables in a 10' square. Think of the possibilities!

Edit: So at level 4 as a human you should have 3 least invocs and 3 feats. I recommend:
Mortalbane
Improved initiative
Another Feat of your choice, like Ability Focus (EB) or Eldritch Claws

Eldritch Glaive if you didnt take eldritch claws (you will be too feat and invoc starved for both)
Baleful Utterance
Beguiling Influence or Spiderwalk. Trade spiderwalk once you get Fell Flight.

Lots of invocations can be replicated by wands. A wand of darkness, lesser dispel magic, Charm, See invisibility, darkvision, etc all negate the need to take the equivalent invocations, and starting at level 4 means you can take 10 on UMD at all times.

[aleucard]

You also asked about feats.

From level 6 your feats should be Extra Invocation, Extra Invocation and Extra Invocation; though Quicken SLA is good also.

If you have good strength, and you are Glaiving, then why not try Power Attack ? It might not fly with all DMs, YMMV.

There are other options, Snowbluff should be along in a few minutes with a handbook.

I have little to no true understanding of Power Attack, and even if it were allowed, Glaive is Light. I don't want to play a Superman-type, anyway; I'm going for mobility, remember? Dex plus Combat Reflexes plus Glaive/Claw means I am going to be at least competent if I'm playing keepaway. To be honest, right now one of my main concerns is my acute case of squishiness. Light Armor and d6 helps in comparison to, say, a Sorcerer, but I'm going to be VERY annoying. I want to make sure I can survive at least 1 round of that annoyance focused on me. I'm going to be running potential invocation ideas by our DM once the options open up (a Greater mutation of Ignore the Pyre that gives me some Elemental traits, maybe?), but right now I'm working with the official stuff.



Personally, I see the difference between Good and Neutral as a question of selflessness. A Good person will go out of their way to help people, no questions asked, because it is The Right Thing To Do. A Neutral person will also go out of their way to help people, but they'll do it because of a reward or payoff they expect - possibly a monetary one, just as often a reputation-based one of respect or fame. From the outside, they can look identical, and even on the inside, they can be very similar. It's up to you, though.

I can't really bring myself to get into the mindset for your version of Neutral if I'm playing a guy that's going to stay that way. I prefer playing Heroes, though the level of grime on their armor can vary wildly.




1.Pretty sure you won't be able to do Maximize SLA at level 4.

2.Eldritch Claws falls behind without iteratives, so you should probably have Improved Unarmed Strike so you can take Beast Strike later (I'm presuming since you're planning on taking Eldritch Claws that you're good with Dragon material).

3.There are other ways to get Telepathy, but they generally involve more resources. Shape Soulmeld: Shedu Crown is one, IIRC.

1. I know, that's why I left the 'when I'm higher level' note. I do need another feat besides Claws and Combat Reflexes, though. Namely, one that can be had at level 1 for me.

2. I'm allowed to stack the Claws with a retrofitted and modified Iron Nails from 3.0's Arms and Equipment Guide 2 (gauntlets rather than stealthy leather gloves), so I can add things to that if I need to. I'm planning on trying to modify them to use quasi-Shape invocations at my choosing later, though (one for a charged ranged shot, another for a Scorpion-style spike-chain launcher (pull myself along, or pull whatever I nail to me)). That might take up some space for enchantments, though I don't much care.

3. If they get too complicated or require me to pull too much of a library out, I'm likely to not bother. Mindsight is NICE, but I'm willing to get by without it.

EDIT (addendum to 2. from just above): I'm mainly getting claws so that I A) don't have to hop around with 5 ft. steps any time I want to attack, B) have something to build off of later for another potential invocation (think Bigby), and 3) don't need to give my opponent a round in melee range before I can hit them in it (Glaive is a FRA, but Claws can be used in Standard).

[Kane0]

If your DM is possibly open to new forms invocations, would he also be willing to let you try out a homebrew warlock? My sig has a half dozen good ones that will make your life a whole lot easier if you arent going to be multiclassing or PrCing.

[TuggyNE]

And then they never tell you what happens if you have an LG Warlock. There's no penalties whatsoever for being one.

The penalties for it are "not existing".

[aleucard]

If your DM is possibly open to new forms invocations, would he also be willing to let you try out a homebrew warlock? My sig has a half dozen good ones that will make your life a whole lot easier if you arent going to be multiclassing or PrCing.

While this grabs my attention immediately, I'm wanting to stick to pure official rules at the beginning. If it turns out I don't stack up, my DM and I are going to look into other options to bring me up to speed. I'm looking through it as we type, though.

[aleucard]

I decided to drop the Glaive and go full Claws. I'll post a link to my sheet when I can. My current questions are going to revolve around ways to improve from here; I'm going for mobility, damage avoidance, and ability to function both close and medium range (don't care as much about past max Blast range, can move up or draw them in if I need to, and other classes are already going to be good enough for long range). I'm expecting my best damage to come from the Claws, but I don't want to sacrifice the rest heavily to do so.

[Big Fau]

The penalties for it are "not existing".

Show me where in any book it says that LG Warlocks cease to exist. I defy you.

[nedz]

Show me where in any book it says that LG Warlocks cease to exist. I defy you.

It's not in the SRD, because ?

PH p23 — Class Descriptions — Alignment: A few classes restrict a characters possible alignment.

CArc p7 — Warlock — Alignment: Any evil or any chaotic

So if you are a Warlock then your alignment is restricted to xE or Cy. LG does not fit this description.

[Segev]

I believe a more constructive approach than simple argument is to ask: Let's say you start with a CG Warlock, and he acts Lawfully to the point that he becomes NG and then LG. What happens?

We know that Barbarians who cease to be Chaotic specifically lose their Rage ability.

We know that Monks who cease to be Lawful can no longer advance as Monks.

There are dozens of threads on paladins falling on this board alone.

What are the mechanical consequences if a Warlock acts Lawful Good for too long?

[Telonius]

There's no penalty for a Warlock "falling" (by becoming LG, or any other alignment). But if you don't meet the alignment requirement, you can't gain another level in it. You'd basically be confined to the few PrCs that advance invocations. That might or might not be a problem, depending on when you start it. And there's always the Enlightened Spirit PrC from Complete Mage.

[Kane0]

I'd houserule that a fallen warlock loses fiendish resilience and any fiendish flavored invocations.

So a good/lawful warlock could still function pretty much fine if he stays clear of things like Devils Eye and Hellrime Blast.

[nedz]

But by RAW a Warlock cannot change alignment towards the top left corner.

Unless someone has another rules reference ?

[Chronos]

If a paladin, the class most defined by its alignment in the whole game, can move away from that corner, then surely a warlock can move towards it. What do you think happens if a CG warlock starts acting in a consistently lawful manner?

[nedz]

If a paladin, the class most defined by its alignment in the whole game, can move away from that corner, then surely a warlock can move towards it. What do you think happens if a CG warlock starts acting in a consistently lawful manner?

Sure, of course.

I'm just fishing for a RAW contradiction.:smalltongue:

[TuggyNE]

If a paladin, the class most defined by its alignment in the whole game, can move away from that corner, then surely a warlock can move towards it. What do you think happens if a CG warlock starts acting in a consistently lawful manner?

The game explodes, like what happens if you cast fox's cunning on a fox.

Alternatively, the warlock turns into a wild MISSINGNO.

[fluke1993]

Fox's Cunning doesn't cause foxes to explode, they just stop being animals for the duration.

[Phelix-Mu]

The game explodes, like what happens if you cast fox's cunning on a fox.

The real question is "what does the fox say?"

:smalltongue:

To the point, the problem, as noted, with shifting the alignment away is that you need to qualify for the class every time you pick up a level in it, as I understand the leveling up rules in the PHB. While a warlock can change to whatever alignment s/he wants without affecting their existing abilities by RAW, s/he will be in a bit of an rp-bind next time s/he goes to gain a level in warlock.

And ditto for DMs handwaving away the silly alignment stuff. I feel there is flavor stuff in favor of alignment reqs, but it shouldn't be a huge barrier to enjoying your own character and exploring the more interesting parts of the moral/ethical axes in the game.

[aleucard]

And ditto for DMs handwaving away the silly alignment stuff. I feel there is flavor stuff in favor of alignment reqs, but it shouldn't be a huge barrier to enjoying your own character and exploring the more interesting parts of the moral/ethical axes in the game.

I was mainly looking into it so I could get Mindsight, but I can do without anyway. I don't plan on changing alignment from CG, so the whole discussion there with what happens to an alignment-shifted warlock (while interesting) is irrelevant to this topic unless if you got a good roleplay and mechanical reason for me to shift. I'm not kicking that discussion off this topic, though; just make sure further debate posts have at least something that is directly applicable to my original points.

Oh, and by the way, I edited the first post. Got my sheet finished, need to update it to level 5, and have to wait damn near a month if not longer to play again. Outstanding. :smallfurious:

[Phelix-Mu]

Sorry about not offering anything pertinent. To make up for it:

1.) CG warlocks may or may not ascribe to the demonic heritage fluff, as far as I'm concerned. It's moderately built into the class, but it's very easy to re-fluff the abilities so that "fiendish" doesn't appear on the character sheet. Something to consider, though as you've already had the character for a while, maybe you've nailed down the background.

2.) I prefer claws to glaive, so I like your choice there. Glaive has some strong advantages, but the flavor of claws is quite good, and it gives something else to spend a feat on than more invocations. Claws can be optimized up to glaive standards via Ur-Priest's earlier suggestions, but that can be quite feat intensive, and would be for a heavily combat-focused warlock.

3.) If you are looking to up the versatility of warlock, both warlock theurge classes from Complete Mage are quite the step up in both versatility and power.

Moreover, I highly suggest homebrew invocations, many of which are available on this forum (thanks Kane0). The standard array of published invocations is quite pitiful (not to mention terribly inconsistent in power level).

[aleucard]

Sorry about not offering anything pertinent. To make up for it:

1.) CG warlocks may or may not ascribe to the demonic heritage fluff, as far as I'm concerned. It's moderately built into the class, but it's very easy to re-fluff the abilities so that "fiendish" doesn't appear on the character sheet. Something to consider, though as you've already had the character for a while, maybe you've nailed down the background.

2.) I prefer claws to glaive, so I like your choice there. Glaive has some strong advantages, but the flavor of claws is quite good, and it gives something else to spend a feat on than more invocations. Claws can be optimized up to glaive standards via Ur-Priest's earlier suggestions, but that can be quite feat intensive, and would be for a heavily combat-focused warlock.

3.) If you are looking to up the versatility of warlock, both warlock theurge classes from Complete Mage are quite the step up in both versatility and power.

Moreover, I highly suggest homebrew invocations, many of which are available on this forum (thanks Kane0). The standard array of published invocations is quite pitiful (not to mention terribly inconsistent in power level).

1 is already addressed, to be honest. My character's energy signature is unique; namely, while it's obvious he's both human and has a definite source of power that allows Warlock functionality like normal more or less, said source of power's identity is a complete unknown. It can't be a part of a pact he initiated, since this was present since he was found as a baby (and a couple months old at most according to the resident medical staff). The energy has been too stable for it to have been a result of a pact to begin with, let alone one made by someone else. Which leaves some form of Heritage, though it matches none of the regular culprits for Warlocks and going down the monster list isn't getting any results. As far as mechanics are concerned, this would make me not know what passes my DR until I come into contact with whatever it is, but the rest is up to the DM.

For 2, as you can see, I'm going for a Claw Weapon. I already passed it by the DM and he's willing to allow things as long as I don't go overboard. While this disallows me playing with Unarmed Strike (weapon damage supplants normal unarmed strike, rather than adding to it), it allows for much more standard messing around with enchantments. I'm also able to use them for defense if one or both aren't used for anything intensive that turn (holding things, attacking, etc.), with this being separate enchantments. We are going the 'I designed it from scratch, I know it literally from the inside out, I can use it thanks to this' route, I think, so proficiency is a non-issue.

On 3, I'm looking into other homebrew invocations, though thanks for pointing those out. I'm leery of most PrCs, though. A more in-depth look is required, though they're likely to come much later. Let me get used to my character's normal functions first, build a foundation.

[aleucard]

Updated the original post. Please take a look!

[nedz]

Your skills seem to have one too many ranks for level 4 ?

Can you afford a Wand of Web to go with your Spiderwalk ?

[aleucard]

Your skills seem to have one too many ranks for level 4 ?

Can you afford a Wand of Web to go with your Spiderwalk ?

I'm going to level 5 now, so yeah. That's also why I have so much extra cash.

I'd much rather use an Eternal wand if I use any wand at all, and I'm having a difficult time finding the rules for how casting from one even works. I'm not expecting to get the kind of use from that particular spell that the party Sorcerer can't find himself anyway. Especially since he's a fire specialist. I don't wanna turn crispy myself any time soon, mkay? ^_^;;

[nedz]

I'd much rather use an Eternal wand if I use any wand at all, and I'm having a difficult time finding the rules for how casting from one even works. I'm not expecting to get the kind of use from that particular spell that the party Sorcerer can't find himself anyway. Especially since he's a fire specialist. I don't wanna turn crispy myself any time soon, mkay? ^_^;;

It's a good Combo, but for Fireballs.

DC 20 UMD check BTW

[aleucard]

It's a good Combo, but for Fireballs.

DC 20 UMD check BTW

Agreed, especially if done with Grease as well. I've heard of entire encounters being won by that alone. I just don't really feel like it too much; I'm encroaching on the party Sorcerer's territory enough as-is, I am going to be powerful enough already, and I'm not too interested in (in combination with some other prospective abilities I'm wanting) becoming an Arcane Spiderman. Cool as the guy may be, that's not what I'm wanting to go for this time around.

I was less thinking the UMD check (which is going to be auto-success for me at that DC, yay Deceive Item!) and more things like caster level. Do wands use my caster level, or whatever was installed into the weapon, or whichever's higher, or something else? I wasn't able to find this info. I know that Staves use the user's caster level, but that's it.

[nedz]

Wands use a fixed CL, set by the creator. Usually the lowest possible.

[aleucard]

Wands use a fixed CL, set by the creator. Usually the lowest possible.

Wouldn't that mean the best spells for wands are things that work just as well regardless of caster level, like Benign Transposition and probably at least a couple things that last all day regardless? Sure, an eternal or two of Identify would be absolutely wonderful, but the list of spells like that are limited. Not to mention that if I wanted to go crafter full-tilt, I'd pick Artificer.

[TuggyNE]

Wouldn't that mean the best spells for wands are things that work just as well regardless of caster level, like Benign Transposition and probably at least a couple things that last all day regardless?

That is the standard advice for most wand usage, yes. Pumping wands to the point of usefulness as your primary in-combat contribution is non-trivial, and most characters can't pull it off at all well.

[nedz]

Wouldn't that mean the best spells for wands are things that work just as well regardless of caster level, like Benign Transposition and probably at least a couple things that last all day regardless? Sure, an eternal or two of Identify would be absolutely wonderful, but the list of spells like that are limited. Not to mention that if I wanted to go crafter full-tilt, I'd pick Artificer.

Yes, though you can bump the CL, it just costs more

Creating Wands
The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the wand = 375 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster. Wands are always fully charged (50 charges) when created.
Things like Cure Light Wounds or Lesser Vigour also work well at CL 1 because CL is a secondary boost.

[Person_Man]

It's also worth mentioning that you can get Telepathy temporarily from a variety of sources. Thus if you took the Mindsight Feat, it would only function when your Telepathy on.

In my opinion, this makes the Feat a lot less game braking. There's nothing wrong with players using special abilities to basically bypass certain exploration or combat or roleplaying challenges from time to time. But if they do it all of the time, it completely changes the nature of the game. That's not necessarily always a bad thing - it's just not good game design that one player can do it with one Feat.

[killem2]

What's the problem with nongood?

Also tell your DM that alignment prereqs are stupid.

http://i.imgur.com/2tBWTbv.jpg


At least in my experience. lol

[aleucard]

It's also worth mentioning that you can get Telepathy temporarily from a variety of sources. Thus if you took the Mindsight Feat, it would only function when your Telepathy on.

In my opinion, this makes the Feat a lot less game braking. There's nothing wrong with players using special abilities to basically bypass certain exploration or combat or roleplaying challenges from time to time. But if they do it all of the time, it completely changes the nature of the game. That's not necessarily always a bad thing - it's just not good game design that one player can do it with one Feat.

Another potential solution would be to allow people with mental abilities to make saves to hide themselves for a couple rounds, or make certain things like Mind Blank give you invisibility to this sort of thing. I've decided against going this route myself, though; I'll try and direct the party scouts (Rogue and potentially Bard) at things like this, though.

[kpumphre]

A class that is good and seems to support what your wanting would be Dragon Fire adept, it is the same thing as warlock but you get your power from Dragons instead of Fey, or devils. You have invocations and a breath weapon you can use every round.

[aleucard]

A class that is good and seems to support what your wanting would be Dragon Fire adept, it is the same thing as warlock but you get your power from Dragons instead of Fey, or devils. You have invocations and a breath weapon you can use every round.

My class is already locked in. I'm not wanting to do dragons this time around, or at least I'll let my DM make that decision. Warlocks have better official support, anyway.