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Just to Browse
2013-11-06, 01:48 PM
My goal is to design fighting types from what we want to see them do. D&D NEXT has this image on their website:


http://gamingtonic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DD-Next-Image-12.jpg


That's a dragon larger than colossal, and it appears that the fighter is soloing it.

Cinematically, how does this fighter win? Screw the D&D rules, assume whatever you want, but try to keep it as non-magical as possible.

snowboule
2013-11-06, 01:52 PM
Easy he doesn't win xD

Acatalepsy
2013-11-06, 01:59 PM
Cinematically, how does this fighter win? Assume whatever you want, but let's try to keep it as non-magical as possible.

Obviously, he has to climb up the thing and stab it. I'm not 100% sure how that works out (though daring leaps, his cloak flickering with flame, intricate spins of this sword warding off the dragon's claw all figure int), but I do know how it ends: the fighter, standing on the back of the dragon's head, kneels and drives his sword into the dragon's neck. The dragon rears back in pain, and fighter swings around on the dragon's horn, his sword glowing with mystic power, and strikes across the dragon's exposed neck as he falls.

Blood runs from the dragon's neck in rivers, and the beast collapses, crushing part of the tower wall, and kicking up a storm of dust and debris that the fighter will then emerge from (like a complete badass).

Rebonack
2013-11-06, 02:10 PM
The problem with this scenario is that the Fighter and the Dragon aren't playing the same game the moment you place the restriction 'as non-magical as possible' on the Fighter.

That dragon is the size of Godzilla. It's mere existence is violating several laws of physics. If the Fighter is expected to be bound to the laws of physics of our universe while his opponent isn't then he's in quite a bit of trouble.

This is, I think, one of the fundamental flaws with the Fighter as a concept. He lives in a universe that operates under laws vastly different than our own and affords beings that follow those laws tremendous power. But the Fighter is expected to follow the laws of our universe and thus gets left in the dust.

If the Fighter is going to function in a universe that has Epic Fantasy folks running around then he's going to need to be pulling off Epic Fantasy shenanigans in order to do it. And if we look at what Fighter-types do in Epic Fantasy that means stuff like diverting rivers with a swing of their axe, ripping the iron gates of a city off their hinges and throwing them like a discus, leaping from one pillar of heaven to another, or effortlessly turning back armies single-handedly.

A normal guy who is really good at swinging around a metal stick isn't going to be able to solo a dragon the size of Godzilla. But Hercules? Samson? Sun Wukong? They've got a shot at it.

Amnoriath
2013-11-06, 02:16 PM
Well, if the dragon was stupid enough to actually put itself in that exact position at the fighter's next turn the choice is obvious(Battle Jump Ubercharger). Otherwise skills and base attack bonus need to be serious modified to accomodate high level warriors.

CinuzIta
2013-11-06, 02:39 PM
Well, personally, I would rely on mobility and use my magic sword (cause it has to be magical to wound that thing) to sever its tendons and climb to reach his wings with the same purpose, trying to reduce its potential mobility, in order to finish him out while it lays on the ground, "helpless"..technically speaking this would require moving and full attacking, a bab higher than full (+25/+20/+15...), ability to ignore enemies DR, debuffing abilities and bonus on damages..

Just to Browse
2013-11-06, 02:53 PM
Don't try to build this out of D&D rules (we already know the fighter sucks), just do it from whatever you think would look cool (like what acatalepsy wrote). I'm trying to design the rules based on what is effective, instead of writing effective things around the rules.

So how would the fighter kill this dragon in, say, an action movie?

CinuzIta
2013-11-06, 02:58 PM
that's what I've done..I've written the cinematical thing (severing tendons and all..with a lot of jumps and tumbles) and then, just for fun, I've put down some technical ideas..I understood what you wanted from us, I just put there some thingies

Just to Browse
2013-11-06, 03:08 PM
Ah, I left this post sitting for 20min before I posted it. Didn't see yours.

Severing tendons is a good idea. It'll require writing some dragon called shots or something.

CarpeGuitarrem
2013-11-06, 03:15 PM
That dragon is the size of Godzilla. It's mere existence is violating several laws of physics. If the Fighter is expected to be bound to the laws of physics of our universe while his opponent isn't then he's in quite a bit of trouble.

This is, I think, one of the fundamental flaws with the Fighter as a concept. He lives in a universe that operates under laws vastly different than our own and affords beings that follow those laws tremendous power. But the Fighter is expected to follow the laws of our universe and thus gets left in the dust.

New Fighter concept: the Logician. Their ability is to make things around them follow the rules of physics. Voila! Dragon is squashed!

Wardog
2013-11-06, 03:28 PM
Cinematically, how does this fighter win? Screw the D&D rules, assume whatever you want, but try to keep it as non-magical as possible.

Stab it in the hitpoints 'til it dies?


More seriously:

Hide in a pit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigurd)/ravine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BArin_Turambar)/etc, wait for the dragon to pass over, and stap it in the belly?

Hope the DM wants him to win (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_George)?

Find some way of protecting yourself for the flames, then stab it down it's throat with a long spear (http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/england/somerset/legends/dragon-of-aller.html)?

Leap down it's throat and hope you can stab it enough before you die?

Hit it really hard (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/beowulf.html#three)?

Out-manuvour it (it is probably rather slow and clumsy, given its size), and stab it in the voonerables (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/fridleif.html).

Unspecified (http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/tristan.html)?

Arrange an "accident"? (http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/england/somerset/legends/blue-ben-of-kilve.html)

Get it to charge at you. Hope it doesn't realise you are standing in front of a massive rock. Move at the last moment.

CinuzIta
2013-11-06, 03:36 PM
Ah, I left this post sitting for 20min before I posted it. Didn't see yours.

Severing tendons is a good idea. It'll require writing some dragon called shots or something.

My bad, a simple misunderstanding!

Mmmh, I know you said you don't want technical infos or builds but I just got an idea: what about something like this for bonus damage? I guess fighting with one enemy should be easier than fighting with multiple enemies..what if a fighter would get a bonus on damages equal to his fighter levels/number of enemies on the ground? This would increase the damage output very much but, between DR and everything, I don't think it would unbalance things that much..

hamishspence
2013-11-06, 03:40 PM
That's a dragon larger than colossal, and it appears that the fighter is soloing it.

Is it really that much bigger than Colossal?

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ph35_gallery/PHB35_PG150_WEB.jpg

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/FR_ART/People/Klauth.jpg

Seerow
2013-11-06, 03:45 PM
Big things I expect the fighter to be able to do here:

-Block the dragon's breath weapon from hurting him, possibly with aid from his shield. This shield should not need to be magical to do so.

-Be able to physically stop/hold back the dragon. If the Dragon sweeps in to try to swallow him whole, I don't want to see the Fighter duck out of the way, he should stand his ground and grab the fangs and stop those jaws from snapping shut on him.

-Be able to climb/jump onto the Dragon and interact with more than its ankles. A fighter on the back of a collossal+ dragon is as hard for the Dragon to get to and hurt as the dragon is to the Fighter, though for different reasons. (imagine an intelligent super-smart ant on you. Now imagine not being able to reach your hands behind your back. Yeah)

-Be able to wound/cripple the dragon's anatomy (the earlier mentioned wing clipping. Taking out eyes. Etc)


Basically the Fighter should be very tough, able to stand his ground and go toe to toe physically even with much larger creatures (screw the physics and screw anyone who insists the Fighter has to adhere to them), and be able to apply his force logically.

Hyena
2013-11-06, 03:46 PM
Well, after the fighter shrugs off the fire without so much as coughing from smoke, the dragon would try to fly away, but the fighter accelerates, jumps and, after nearly flying for a hundred feet, lands on the back of the foul beast. Then he takes his mighty sword and pierces it's wings with one mighty strike, forcing the beast to fall on the ground.
When the dragon's ribs are crushed, the fighter smirks and cuts it's head off.

That is how high level fighter is supposed to be. Sadly, I don't see how it's possible in a tabletop game.

Thunderfist12
2013-11-06, 03:50 PM
To answer the title: horribly.

That... that's all I have to say about that.

The_Final_Stand
2013-11-06, 03:50 PM
Are you familiar with the Dragoon from Final Fantasy? They, as dragonslayers, leap up ludicrously high, wielding naught but a spear or lance, and plunge upon their scaly foe, trusting to their immense speed and the keenness of their weapons to strike a fatal blow to the dragon's forehead or backbone.

Something that big, however, where the scales alone are likely thicker than a spear is long, would likely require clever use of environmental damage. Spear it on a clock tower or something.

CumCaritas
2013-11-06, 04:01 PM
Well, the dragon would try to fly away, but the fighter accelerates, jumps and, after nearly flying for a hundred feet, lands on the back of the foul beast. Then he takes his mighty sword and pierces it's wings with one mighty strike, forcing the beast to fall on the ground.
When the dragon's ribs are crushed, the fighter smirks and cuts it's head off.

That is how high level fighter is supposed to be. Sadly, I don't see how it's possible in a tabletop game.

Sadly, it isn't.

Why? Because what you don't see just off to the side of this picture is the high level wizard...

But seriously, from the 'epic battle' point of view...


The fighter jumps to the side as the dragon looses another jet of flame. Rolling back up to his feet, the fighter clenches his teeth. The Dragon bellows, a mighty roar that pierces the sky and flaps its wings to blow this puny human to the ground to be scooped up in massive jaws. But the fighter grits his teeth and plants his feet, standing defiantly in the wake of the mighty beast.

The Dragon snarls, its plan ruined, and moves in for the kill. Massive jaws clamp down to devour the fighter, but the fighter is ready. this is the moment he has been waiting for. With clenched teeth, the fighter stabs upward, his steel glowing red from the heat of the dragon's flames. With a mighty yell of his own, the fighter roars his defiance of what fate has set aside for him.

The dragon roars as steel pierces the roof of its mouth and tears through its brain. It roars again, rearing up onto rear legs, blood spurts from the mouth of the beast as a third roar, weaker this time comes forth. Then the roar ends, as the massive dead hulk crashes to the ground.

Chest heaving with effort, the fighter walks over to the beast and pulls his sword from the fiery corpse. Wiping the blade on the smoldering remains of his tattered cloak, he sheathes the blade and walks back into the city, looking for a tankard of ale, and a wench or two to congratulate the hero...

Zaydos
2013-11-06, 04:13 PM
Looking at myth and legend? He waits till it lands, uses a specially made (and often blessed) shield to withstand its fire breath which despite its magical properties still often is shattered or destroyed by the end of the fight, and wins by driving in close and stabbing it through.

Cinematically:

Again he waits till it gets close; even in cinema the fighter gets the enemy when it chooses (suicidally) to close with him instead of fly off and kill someone else. Maybe he radiates some aura of menace that tells the dragon one of them is destined to kill the other and it had better kill him before he kills it. When it lands it bellows forth fire, but the fighter raises his shield specially made for the task by legendary smiths to ward off the flames then drives forward. The dragon's massive claw comes down on him from the right, easily larger than he is, trying to bat him away but he raises his still hot shield and braces himself to fend off the attack. The dragon's mighty tail lashes out, but the fighter dives to the side as it creates a furlough with the force of the blow. The fighter shouts a witty one-liner as he dodges its teeth and drives his sword deep into its eye and brain. The dragon falls dead as the fighter pulls his gauntlet-clad hand from the hilt of his sword vapor rising due to the dragon's acidic blood. He waits a few moments and then draws his legendary sword from the dragon's corpse.

CinuzIta
2013-11-06, 04:26 PM
I don't get why the fighter should have a special-magical-supa-dupa-shield while a special ability could do the work just as good: look at the paladin in my signature, his 16th (or 17th?) level ability do exactly what you're talking about..

Rebonack
2013-11-06, 04:32 PM
High level Wizards follow the rules of magic.

A high level Fighter should follow the rules of cool.

As the dragon flies over the city for another pass with its deadly breath, the Fighter rips the portcullis out of the city walls and hurls it at the dragon. The massive iron projectile rends through the dragon's wing, sending it crashing to the ground. Enraged, the dragon tries to end the Fighter with his burning breath, but the warrior ducks behind his shield and parts the inferno like a boulder parts a stream.

When the Fighter draws near the dragon lashes out to bite him, but he rams his spear down the monster's throat and transfixes its brain-stem, slaying it.

Or, y'know, something along those lines.

shadow_archmagi
2013-11-06, 04:43 PM
As has been mentioned, the fighter needs a way to strike at the dragon's weak points. This can be achieved by having the fighter be very mobile (Superhuman climbing and jumping skills), and by giving him tools to reduce the dragon's mobility (crippling its limbs/wings).

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is ranged attacks for the fighter- if he can throw his sword to cut the thing's wings off from a distance, or use spears to nail its feat to the ground, that goes a long way.

Alternatively, 3D manuever gear :smallbiggrin:

silphael
2013-11-06, 07:18 PM
First, I'm gonna take into account a standard fantasy dragon, that is, one without tons of long range spells.


First part of the fight : the dragon is mostly breathing fire, staying in the air or launching parts of buildings on him. The fighter will shrugg off those flammes either with his shield (which, by following standard D&D rules, will hold those flammes indefinitely. If that's not the case, then it's not a precious thing, and he will use parts of the environnement as shield, not hiding behind those but moving those in the way) while bragging how cold the weather is, pushing the pride of the dragon (ALL dragons are arrogant, ALL of them) into coming closer (if the breath is very long range, if not, see part 2). During this time, our fighter will make the people maneuver into staying out of dragon's danger : either to take care of other threats or pushing the dragon into a mistake.

Second part : our dragon is now nearer, and just as he wants to breath, the fighter will jump, grab nose of dragon, jump in mouth sword before him, and plant it toward dragon's brain.

Then the dragon cinematicaly falls to the ground, head first closing (public holding breath as our hero disappears in mouth), then slowly turning as the corpse slide on the ground, making huge clouds of dust. The turning opens the mouth, and the heroes goes out, while the beast keeps sliding.

Kane0
2013-11-06, 11:24 PM
Ever played God of War? Shadow of the Collossus? Force Unleashed? Thats the kind of thing I imagine the fighter doing to that dragon.

Knaight
2013-11-06, 11:40 PM
My first inclination is to go with them losing, and just not having anything Colossal sized at all. Failing that though, people have hunted some very, very large animals - whales. A harpoon attached to a boulder with a chain could work to restrict mobility, and if the dragon is tired enough a death of a thousand cuts becomes an option. Otherwise, there are always eyes, the inside of throats, etc.

On the other hand, this seems like exactly the sort of situation poison is ideal for.

Thugorp
2013-11-07, 12:16 AM
I think people might be forgetting three things,

1. Equipment: This hole battle might end in one strike from a +6 Vorprel sword(or ax) A fighter specializing in two weapon fighting, with spring attack, and combat reflexes, and a high dexterity(especially if he has improved initiative) might end that fight in one round. Ending it in two or three rounds (lets say the fighter has 2 slashing reach weapons that are both vorpral) is very possible.
At level 16, a fighter with greater improved two-weapon-fighting, can, with a full attack, attack 7 times. In seven roles there is a slightly higher than 30% chance that the player will role a 20 at least one time. Assuming the character has the ability to confirm that critical role, the battle has just ended. If the player can keep the dragon from getting full attack actions he may survive enough rounds to nearly assure a 20.

2. In core 3.0/3.5 D&D and I would bet even Pathfinder, the fighter was never actually intended to be the guy who takes on dragons with his sword. That's more the role of the barbarian, and monk. In core D&D the fighters role is to be the tactical fighter who has trained himself to the point where he can take on four or five moderate enemies well on his own, or else hold groups of small enemies or 1 large enemy keeping them busy occupied and threatened while his companions pick them off, or weekend them for him to kill. I don't mean that this is what he is left with in a party(it is but that isn't what I necessarily mean here). According to the fighter's fluff, the fighter is a trained soldier. He is a person who has had formal training in how to use weapons, tactics, and strategy, to defeat a large variety of foes, as a member of a team with similar or complimentary training. Asking a person with that background to solo, a dragon isn't really fair, nor does it allow him to utilize his best skill set, TEAMWORK. Or at least grunt-work.

3. In 3.0/3.5 if we look at him from a pure mechanics point of view, the fighter need not be a fighter. speaking strictly mechanically, the fighter is a feat monkey, as the rouge is a skill monkey. Utilizing the correct equipment, feats, and skills, you can make almost any mundain thing out of the fighter, for instance you could make a charlatan mage, who uses alchemical items, mechanical devices, and arcane feats to trick people into thinking he is a wizard/sorcerer and also win in battle. Or he could use similar equipment with different feats to play the part of an artificer, or scholar, or yet different equipment and feats to play a non-magical druid. It is true you can't do this in core, but it is certainly doable given enough rulebooks.

O.k., I know that doesn't quite answer the O.P.'s question, but... I guess on thinking about it, I guess I don't really know if it needs answering now. I am actually as surprised as anyone, about this opinion...

Seerow
2013-11-07, 07:17 AM
I think people might be forgetting three things,

1. Equipment: This hole battle might end in one strike from a +6 Vorprel sword(or ax) A fighter specializing in two weapon fighting, with spring attack, and combat reflexes, and a high dexterity(especially if he has improved initiative) might end that fight in one round. Ending it in two or three rounds (lets say the fighter has 2 slashing reach weapons that are both vorpral) is very possible.
At level 16, a fighter with greater improved two-weapon-fighting, can, with a full attack, attack 7 times. In seven roles there is a slightly higher than 30% chance that the player will role a 20 at least one time. Assuming the character has the ability to confirm that critical role, the battle has just ended. If the player can keep the dragon from getting full attack actions he may survive enough rounds to nearly assure a 20.

2. In core 3.0/3.5 D&D and I would bet even Pathfinder, the fighter was never actually intended to be the guy who takes on dragons with his sword. That's more the role of the barbarian, and monk. In core D&D the fighters role is to be the tactical fighter who has trained himself to the point where he can take on four or five moderate enemies well on his own, or else hold groups of small enemies or 1 large enemy keeping them busy occupied and threatened while his companions pick them off, or weekend them for him to kill. I don't mean that this is what he is left with in a party(it is but that isn't what I necessarily mean here). According to the fighter's fluff, the fighter is a trained soldier. He is a person who has had formal training in how to use weapons, tactics, and strategy, to defeat a large variety of foes, as a member of a team with similar or complimentary training. Asking a person with that background to solo, a dragon isn't really fair, nor does it allow him to utilize his best skill set, TEAMWORK. Or at least grunt-work.

3. In 3.0/3.5 if we look at him from a pure mechanics point of view, the fighter need not be a fighter. speaking strictly mechanically, the fighter is a feat monkey, as the rouge is a skill monkey. Utilizing the correct equipment, feats, and skills, you can make almost any mundain thing out of the fighter, for instance you could make a charlatan mage, who uses alchemical items, mechanical devices, and arcane feats to trick people into thinking he is a wizard/sorcerer and also win in battle. Or he could use similar equipment with different feats to play the part of an artificer, or scholar, or yet different equipment and feats to play a non-magical druid. It is true you can't do this in core, but it is certainly doable given enough rulebooks.

O.k., I know that doesn't quite answer the O.P.'s question, but... I guess on thinking about it, I guess I don't really know if it needs answering now. I am actually as surprised as anyone, about this opinion...

Your post represents every bad opinion that this thread should not be about.

Yitzi
2013-11-07, 11:34 AM
Obviously, he has to climb up the thing and stab it. I'm not 100% sure how that works out (though daring leaps, his cloak flickering with flame, intricate spins of this sword warding off the dragon's claw all figure int), but I do know how it ends: the fighter, standing on the back of the dragon's head, kneels and drives his sword into the dragon's neck. The dragon rears back in pain, and fighter swings around on the dragon's horn, his sword glowing with mystic power, and strikes across the dragon's exposed neck as he falls.

Blood runs from the dragon's neck in rivers, and the beast collapses, crushing part of the tower wall, and kicking up a storm of dust and debris that the fighter will then emerge from (like a complete badass).

I like this (except perhaps without the mystic power, and I doubt a sword could take a hit from that claw so he'll just have to dodge it unless the sword is heavily magically reinforced)...

The question, though, is if there's somewhere on that dragon where he can do damage without going deeper than sword-length; otherwise he'll need to dig into the dragon to hit something good.

SiuiS
2013-11-07, 11:48 AM
My goal is to design fighting types from what we want to see them do. D&D NEXT has this image on their website:


http://gamingtonic.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/DD-Next-Image-12.jpg


That's a dragon larger than colossal, and it appears that the fighter is soloing it.

Cinematically, how does this fighter win? Screw the D&D rules, assume whatever you want, but try to keep it as non-magical as possible.

using 3.5 rules?


Okay. So the dragon is basically terrain, right? the fighter is basically taking AoOs all the damn time, so let's assume that's a given.

The dragon is big enough that any hit is going to kcik up debris. This debris is going to mostly consist of square-sized rock chunks with upward velocity. The fighter could either ready his action or simply get lucky in initiative (depending on how smart the player) and jump. Rolling out of the way of the dragon's claws, and using the old, weird 3.0 precedent of being allowed to either move, or take an AoO at -4 against the dragon. Moving lets the fighter react immediately, which lets him, say, run, jump onto a rock, and then jump onto another rock, and eventually jump onto the dragons arm. Or maybe he simply climbs the dragon's arm; It's too large to grapple, which means it can be climbed, albeit at difficulty. Most acrobatics and cinematics at this point will involve avoiding getting swatted like a fly, or maybe setting your sword against a charge (and stabbing the swatting dragons-paw).

ropes could be utilized, or chains; Being chased by the dragon while it thunders through buildings,the canny fighter runs into the drawbridge chamber, then quickly climbs the wall and scurries to the top. The dragon busts in through the stone and wood, and the fighter ends up between the dragon's shoulderblades, while it gets wrapped in the chains and rigging of the pulley system.

Either way, the dragon is now being clung to by the fighter. So it will likely take flight. In flight, climbing is harder, but it's also harder for the dragon to do anything and maintain flight velocity. So the dragon pulls acrobatic stunts, trying to shake the fighter until it's breath charges. It themn disgorges a cloud of fire, flying into it and hoping to catch the fighter in the flames. The fighter needs to cleverly avoid this, either embedding daggers into the scales to hang on or lashing his belt to a back spine, using the dragon's own contours to avoid the heat.

Eventually, the fighter will either fall off (and be either eaten out of the sky, crushed on the ground, or winded to start again) or he will reach the neck apex and begin to climb towards the head. If he can make it to the head, basic adventuring gear will save him, be it two spikes piton'd into the dragon's horns and roped (and a tug-of-war ensues, as the fighter tries to steer the dragon into the ground!), or his cloak is thrown over it's eyes in vain hope of thwarting it's navigation, or perhaps he simply rams his sword into it's brain, and hopes the inside of it's skull could soften the blow of it's death-spiral.

Climb checks would be modified by smoothness and difficulty of area; apply the same wall modifiers as you would appropriate roughness (smooth scale is basically an ice wall, rough spiky scale is at least hewn stone) and apply any conditions for windspeed based on dragon movement and shakiness. Jumping probably wouldn't work so well for a straight fighter without some skill tricks, unfortunately.




Ever played God of War? Shadow of the Collossus? Force Unleashed? Thats the kind of thing I imagine the fighter doing to that dragon.

Basically. People give me weird looks when I say that's how I play, though, and give me even weirder looks when I say that's why melee is fun. "But it's still just moving and hitting," they say, "or hitting and moving". And when I say "so regardless of specifics, your wizard is always just casting a spell" they are speechless

Rephath
2013-11-07, 01:01 PM
Okay. Your problem here is that you're assuming fighters are operating under the laws of our world. Basically, a fighter is someone gifted with incredible athletic prowess who does what a normal person can do, only more so. He's stronger than would be possible in our world, can jump higher. Hercules of legend would probably be a fighter.

So the fighter could shoot arrows with incredible accuracy, right into the dragon's eyes. He could force its jaws open after it bit him. He could take what should be mortal wounds and still keep going.

And that's ignoring enchanted items, which we shouldn't. Most fantasy heroes pick up some magic items along the way, even the ones who prefer smashing.

And don't forget taunts. Talking is a free action. The fighter might get in some good lines to anger/demoralize his opponent.

zlefin
2013-11-07, 01:06 PM
that depends, is the fighter equivalently powered, or past the point of such a dragon being a threat to him? if the latter, simple; he jumps, swings his sword, and the dragon is cleaved in half.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-11-07, 01:14 PM
that depends, is the fighter equivalently powered, or past the point of such a dragon being a threat to him?

That's actually a very good question. I can think of a few ways this goes, depending on the answer to the following question:

How fair is this fight?

A very challenging encounter. The fighter is struggling against great odds.
A challenging encounter. He should probably have back-up.
A fair fight. This one might go to the judges.
An easy encounter. The fighter is pretty confident when he charges forward.
A simplistic encounter. The poor dragon doesn't know what's coming.

Just to Browse
2013-11-07, 07:23 PM
For the purposes of this fiction-craft, I'd say I'd like to consider it a fair fight.

So the fighter needs abilities that challenge the dragon without making combat an easy stomp.

Hiro Protagonest
2013-11-07, 07:27 PM
Easy. You use the ballistae that the dwarves set up around the arena.

Angelalex242
2013-11-07, 07:34 PM
Well, if you switch that fighter with, say, Cloud Strife or Squall Leonheart...

Then clearly what the fighter's going to do is launch a massive multihit combo against the poor dragon when he reaches his limit, and that'll take it down.

If you watch Advent Children, Cloud vs. Shin Bahamut is a decent idea of what might happen in fighter vs. dragon. (Cloud apparently has improved evasion, as he can go THROUGH a /non elemental/ breath weapon and come out the other side looking just fine)

Just to Browse
2013-11-07, 07:45 PM
Your post represents every bad opinion that this thread should not be about.

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Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-11-08, 12:50 AM
For the purposes of this fiction-craft, I'd say I'd like to consider it a fair fight.

So the fighter needs abilities that challenge the dragon without making combat an easy stomp.

Sounds good. I'm also going to assume the following:

The fighter is armed and armored as in the picture
For the sake of this, I want him to be able to fight with simply a sword and his armor: no other items or defensive magics.

The fighter is using non-magical equipment
A fighter's power should come from his martial prowess, not the equipment he chooses to carry. A magic sword might be a necessity for breaching the dragon's defenses, but, if that is the case, we'll assume the bare minimum: an enchanted blade only sufficient to actually harm the beast.

Physics take a back seat
Let's be honest...a beast that size doesn't care about the fighter. No mortal can withstand that much of an inferno, let alone muster the force to cut through a foot of scaly armor without several hours and a chainsaw. It could simply walk over him, destroy the castle, and go about its business. Having him win is as ridiculous as having an Olympic wrestler bested in a best-of-3 against a common housefly. Yet, within D&D, this is a possible victory, and even a fair fight. Something has to give, and I choose the laws of physics.

And so we progress to the story...forgive the somewhat flowery writing style: it's late, I'm a little drunk, and I'm going to have fun. What you'll see is a fighter having an incredibly difficult fight that he is often one mistake away from losing...and takes all his skill of bladework, combat foresight, and physical prowess to win.

An inferno of blistering heat engulfed Lord Roderick as the great beast rose before the castle wall. Flame billowed from its mighty jaws, and the stench of charred carrion washed over the lone fighter. Hundreds lay dead in the fields before him, the flesh blasted from their blackened bones, their corpses ruined by the mighty claws of the wyrm. Those few who survived had long since fled: weapons littered the parapet, and none remained to stand ‘twixt the queen and the hellish creature that had come for her. None, save Lord Gregor Roderick.

Yet that might be enough.

The wyrm rears back, its huge eyes fixating on the tiny figure before it. It seems almost puzzled: a lone man should be either running or dead, not standing tall amidst naught but dying comrades. All too soon instinct overrides confusion, a great clawed hand rises, and a dozen tons of scale and bone comes crashing down on the castle walls.

…and stops, abruptly. The stone beneath Lord Roderick’s feet buckles and cracks from the blow, but his upraised sword catches the brunt of the crushing blow. The beast roars in surprise, slamming its great claw down again and again, yet the man does not falter. So great is his blade that it is as if he is encased in a sphere of solid steel, impervious to the hammering blows that should shatter his human bones. The wyrm swings again, its hand sweeping along the ramparts, stone giving way beneath the unstoppable force. Lord Roderick is along the wall, his sword flying from his hand as he is forcefully thrown aside, landing sprawled on the uneven stone.

He rolls rapidly as a column of superheated flame sears stone to magma, leaving a pool of glowing rock where he lay just seconds before. The dragon roars again: not surprise this time, but rage. Its great wings flap, shredding loose stones from the castle walls and strengthening the dancing inferno that surrounds the beast. Gregor Roderick stumbles forward, one arm shielding his eyes against the brilliant flames, his cloak trailing flames in his wake. He strips the garment from his shoulders and it is carried away, caught like a kite in a firestorm. Then, suddenly, a cage of red iron surrounds him: the beast has him in its clutches. Stone screeches as the wyrm tears into the castle wall; an entire section rising it its mighty claws, Lord Roderick precariously balanced upon a disintegrated floor. A foot slips, and he crashes down, sliding across the crumbling rampart, now dozens of feet above the castle proper.

As the floor gives way completely Gregor twists, pushing off the falling rock around him and leaping down to the castle wall. He rolls into his landing, rising up once more with his hand wrapped around the hilt of a fallen comrade’s sword. The weapon is not his, but its shape is familiar to him, and he will see that its owner did not die in vain. His eye catches the great claw rising from below, and he braces himself as the rampart explodes beneath him, born upward by the wyrm’s mighty talons. At the apex of his journey he leaps skyward, sword upraised, striking for the beast’s enormous skull. It turns with astounding speed for such an enormous creature, a jet of flame erupting from its gaping maw.

Lord Roderick’s armor buckles beneath the heat, and his skin burns. The sword he carries glows cherry red, and the stench of charred flesh comes from his now-blackened hand. Yet his grip does not falter, even as he falls towards the enormous jaws that rise to meet him. As they surround him he reaches desperately, catching the fingers of his free hand in the chink of the wyrm’s scaly lip and, as the great jaws thunder closed, he kicks out, planting a foot on a massive incisor and spinning himself just outside the deadly wall of teeth.

Scrabbling madly against the side of the beast, Lord Roderick claws his way across the enormous snout, barely managing to keep his footing as the wyrm rages and writhes beneath him in an attempt to fling him to his doom. He climbs on and on, the great eye of the beast burning before him, his one good hand finding purchase betwixt the armored plates, his other hand unable to drop the sword it is seared to.

The beast whirls around, neck bulging with corded muscles as it snaps sideways, and Lord Roderick’s grip slips. He flips off the beast as he falls and, as a taloned hand rises to swat him away, he pushes off of it, launching himself once more at the great wyrm’s terrible visage. His aim is true. His good hand wraps around one of the beast’s brow ridge horns, and he swings into the blow, the worn blade he carries glowing red hot as he plunges it deep into the creature’s eye.

The beast howls and screams in pain, its wings flapping wildly, its massive tail thundering on the dead countryside around it. Yet Lord Roderick holds fast, twisting his blade ever deeper into the wyrm’s skull. Gouts of flame erupt from the creature’s maw, spiraling into the sky as it slowly loses control…and then the flames subside, and a thick black smoke pours forth from the depths of the monster as its fires fade and twelve thousand tons of once-great wyrm come crashing to the ground.

The impact shakes the castle to its very foundations. The beast’s body sheers through the wall, coming to rest a mere thirty feet from the castle keep…yet that thirty feet is distance enough. Lord Roderick pulls his blade from the creature’s brain and limply slides the dozen feet to the ground, landing ungracefully on the hard ground. He struggles to rise, then limps forward, skin blackened by soot and burns, one hand still seared to the burnt leather and twisted metal of his sword hilt.

He may never fight again. The clerics will do their best, but the damage is dreadful. Yet the queen is safe, and the beast…

The beast is dead.