Best Save-or-Die spell to spam?

[unseenmage]

Save-or-Die is possibly a misnomer. More like Save-or-Be-Neutralized. Binding (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/binding.htm) was my go to spell for this but it's Mind-Affecting tag is causing issues with my plans.

Any spell will do as this is for an Artificer in a high power game, though those which can be used with the War Spell template (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306567) would be best.

Thanks regardless Playground.

Edit: Any tips on getting these through SR?

[erikun]

Forcecage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/forcecage.htm) is one of the best no-save-just-die spells, because it lasts for hours, needs no attack roll, allows no save, and completely blocks line of effect. Telekinetic Sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telekineticSphere.htm) is similar and does allow a save. However, both still allow a character to teleport out.

Dominate Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm) and Dominate Monster (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominateMonster.htm) are excellent, if the target is vulnerable and you can hit them with it. A lot of the enchantment school is similar in the same manner - completely disabling a target, but requiring that said target actually be vulnerable to enchantment for it to work.

Baleful Polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/balefulPolymorph.htm) is probably one of your best options if you require a save, as it removes all combat ability and special abilities such as spellcasting. Polymorph Any Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorphAnyObject.htm) can do the above, but also turn them into an unintelligent rock. There is also Flesh to Stone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/fleshToStone.htm) and from Frostburn, Flesh to Ice. These are nice because they technically don't kill the target, and so don't allow resurrection.

Imprisonment (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/imprisonment.htm) is the general "remove opponent from the game" spell that is intended to pretty much permanently eliminate anyone. There are also tons of death-spells if you just want to kill them, the biggest options being Wail of the Banshee (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wailOfTheBanshee.htm) and Energy Drain (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/energyDrain.htm).

Holy Word (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyWord.htm) and similar spells are my favorites from the Cleric side of things. Note that there is no save for any of these for every target that hears it. You can literally eliminate every single non-evil opponent at 10 levels or more below you with a single casting. Mind Seed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSeed.htm) is the fun psionic power that turns a creature into yourself, quite effectively eliminated them completely.

There are also two other fun spells: Sanctify the Wicked (Book of Exalted Deeds) and Mindrape (Book of Vile Darkness). Neither one kills a target, but it does completely swap their alignment around and you have some control over their new personality afterwards. They are generally just referred to as "Mindrape and Good Mindrape", and the names are quite appropriate.

[eggynack]

I'm pretty impressed by call avalanche (Frost, 90), which I'm pretty sure is a save or lose that hits an area and deals damage if it fails. The term "buried" is a rather vague one though, and the best description of its effects that I've found is under cave-ins and collapses (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/dungeons.htm#caveInsAndCollapsesCr8) of all places. Mummify (Sand, 118) is also rather cool as a fortitude based save or die that lacks the death descriptor and has effects if you fail.

[JaronK]

Well, what about Wings of Flurry? It's save or daze, and while the daze only lasts one round the damage is impressive and it hits everyone in the area (but not allies), making it great for neutralizing enemies. Two castings should end most fights, and almost no one is immune.

Plus, even if they pass the save you hit pretty hard.

JaronK

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Just about any save-or-die/disable is useful if you apply the right metamagics (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312334#4).

There are plenty of decently low level no-save-disable effects, for example:

Ray of Stupidity (1d4+1 Int damage) with metamagic like Split Ray and Maximize and Twin Spell.

Metamagic feats like Fell Drain and Fell Frighten with spells that deal damage every round over a duration, such as Power Word: Pain and Kelgore's Grave Mist and Black Tentacles.

For a war spell, you could actually use (Greater) Shadow Evocation/Conjuration to get around the increased casting time.

[Chronos]

Unearthly Beauty, from BoED, is quite nice: It's a save-or-die that lacks all of the tags that usually have immunities attached to them, works on all types, works on multiple targets, and gives you a free additional save-or-suck for every round of the combat.

[unseenmage]

These are all excellent suggestions, thank you all.

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to get these spells to pierce some pretty hefty SR?

[Vedhin]

I'm fond of Binding chain of Fate from Waterdeep: City of Splendors. It's a 9th level Sorcerer/Wizard spell, and is basically save-or-die a slow, painful death. It affects a single creature, allows a Will save, and allows SR. In return, for 1 round/level, the targets space and all squares within 5ft of it are affected by Antimagic Field and Dimensional Anchor. The target cannot change form or move out of the area of the spell. The spell is dispel-proof, and the target also takes a small amount of damage per round. Also, the spell is Evocation, and the whole thing is a force effect.

But yeah. For 1 round/level, they are a sitting duck. The layered defenses are enough to give even a Cheater of Mystra a hard time. Oh, and your BSF/Rogue can get inside the chain with an easy Tumble or Escape Artist check.

Besides, the name is awesome.


Edit:

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to get these spells to pierce some pretty hefty SR?

Off the top of my head:
Lower Spell Resistence, 4th level spell, Draconomicon.
Assay Spell Resistance, 4th level spell, Spell Compendium.
True Casting, 1st level spell, Complete Mage.

That gets you an effective +35 or so on your roll.

[Sith_Happens]

If you don't mind taking 1d3 Wisdom drain, then I'd say the best general-purpose SoD for War Spelling is unequivocally Death By Thorns, which renders every target helpless for 1d4 rounds whether they make the save or not (the "downside" being that a Wish or Miracle cast during that time will save the lives of the ones who failed).

For wiping out an army of mooks, you want Erupt from Serpent Kingdoms. Cleric 9, deals 10 fire damage/level (Fortitude half) in a 100 ft/level radius. Only use that one if you don't care about collateral damage, though, it deals full damage to objects and leaves the area unable to support plant life for a year.

[eggynack]

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to get these spells to pierce some pretty hefty SR?
Use call avalanche. It has an instantaneous duration, and doesn't touch SR at all as a result. It's a pretty crazy spell, with the main limitation being how unclear burying is.

[gooddragon1]

3.0 disintegrate (not the 3.5 version). Fort save or die against almost anything (constructs (except golems), undead, and most other stuff immune to death effects included).

[JaronK]

If you're a Factotum or can otherwise get spells as spell like abilities, then Ghoul Glyph is an amazing No Save Just Die spell. Any living target gets paralyzed with no save.

JaronK

[Snowbluff]

Dominate, and Mindrape. It's not save or die, it's save or become a liability to your team. When they work, of course.

[Silva Stormrage]

Death by Thorns (BoVD) is AMAZING. It targets three creatures, if they fail they die. If they succeed they can't take actions for 1d4 rounds. It has a corruption cost but who cares :smalltongue:

On the other end of the spectrum, Last Judgement (BoED) is also pretty good, save or die if they succeed they take 3d6 wisdom damage. It has a celestial component and can only target evil creatures but still its pretty good.

[Chronos]

Does anyone have any suggestions about how to get these spells to pierce some pretty hefty SR?
Ah, I knew I was forgetting something about Unearthly Beauty. It does that, too. Technically, the spell itself targets you; the killing effect is a supernatural ability that the spell lets you use.

[Hamste]

Note holy word goes off caster level. So if you get your caster level 5 levels above you then you can one hit kill anything at your own level (paralyze for 1d10 minutes is as good as death). Get your Caster level high enough and you can one hit kill just about anything (Holy word, Word of Chaos and word of balance from Balance domain) with no save (but SR might still stop it or magical immunity)

[Snowbluff]

Penetrate SR? Find a ranged touch one and be an Eldritch Theurge...

[unseenmage]

Use call avalanche. It has an instantaneous duration, and doesn't touch SR at all as a result. It's a pretty crazy spell, with the main limitation being how unclear burying is.

Sadly the planned battle is in the Underdark so that 'can only be cast outside' limiter is a deal breaker.

[Brookshw]

+1 to death by thorns.

Honorable mention to implosion, evocation so no deathward immunity. Plus core, not some splat book that gave out ridiculous goodies due to publish or perish.

[Menzath]

I still love Web and Wall of thorns.
Save or your stuck, Oh and you're still Stuck.

[Snowbluff]

+1 to death by thorns.

Honorable mention to implosion, evocation so no deathward immunity. Plus core, not some splat book that gave out ridiculous goodies due to publish or perish.
Seconding. Death by Thorns, Reach, with Vitriolic Blast (Eldritch Theurge)

[Optimator]

Glass Strike is pretty preemo. SoD that works on undead! Despite it targeting fort it's still useful for undead and aberrations and other low fort folk.

Also, check out Frostfell from FB. One round casting time but it's a Huge, shapeable SoD with huge damage on a MADE save and utility (grease, temp drop, bonus to cold DCs within).

[unseenmage]

+1 to death by thorns.

Honorable mention to implosion, evocation so no deathward immunity. Plus core, not some splat book that gave out ridiculous goodies due to publish or perish.

I still love Web and Wall of thorns.
Save or your stuck, Oh and you're still Stuck.

Seconding. Death by Thorns, Reach, with Vitriolic Blast (Eldritch Theurge)

Part of the plan is to spam the chosen spell via UMD in an army scale battle so that Wis Drain might make this one a no-go too.

[Sith_Happens]

Part of the plan is to spam the chosen spell via UMD in an army scale battle so that Wis Drain might make this one a no-go too.

That's what Restoration is for.