[PF]Building a Barbarian for Saturday

[DragonSinged]

Greetings Playgrounders!
So a friend of mine is beginning a PF mini-campaign on Saturday, and I need to get a character together. I was hoping the friendly folks here might help!
I've never played Pathfinder before, though I have played and run plenty of D&D 3.5. I was originally planning on porting in a 3.5 class to fit a certain theme, but that was getting too complicated and daunting sounding, so I decided to simplify, scrapped that, and am going with Barbarian (of which I have heard good things in PF).

We're beginning at 9th level, and I've already rolled my stats.
Our GM is being crazy generous, and letting us roll 3 times and then take our pick, so these are my options (before any level up benefits):
16/16/14/14/14/11
16/15/14/13/13/11
17/14/14/13/12/12

And for my 8 hit die rolls I've got: 8/11/9/8/5/7/12/10

So as far as dice are concerned, I'm doing fairly well.

The books available to us are:
- Pathfinder Core
- Pathfinder Advanced Players Guide
- Pathfinder Ultimate Combat
- Pathfinder Ultimate Magic
- Pathfinder Ultimate Equipment
- Pathfinder Advanced Race Guide
- One other Book from 3.5 or Pathfinder of your choice

Other than that, the only real restriction he's imposed on us is no 9th level casting classes.

If I'm forgetting any vital information, please tell me, but building a new character in a system I'm not all that familiar with is daunting to me, so help would be awesome!

tl;dr: Please help me build a somewhat optimized 9th level Barbarian using the above stats and books. Thank you!

EDIT: Just learned our starting GP total for gear is 46,000.

[Keneth]

What's with those crazy rolls, your dice throwing skills are crazy. :smallconfused:

Anyway, pick the first set of stats and keep them in that order. Put bonus points into strength or constitution.

I would recommend picking human for the race because of the racial favored class bonus (extra Superstition).

You should consider being an invulnerable rager (archetype) because it's just plain better in most games.

Pick up the following feats: Power Attack, Raging Vitality, and preferably Iron Will. The rest is whatever you want. Improved Initiative, Blind-Fight Cornugon Smash, Furious Focus, and Extra Rage Power are all solid choices.

For rage powers: I'm assuming your 3.5 book of choice is gonna be Complete Champion for Spirit Lion Totem to get pounce from the get go. That means you don't have to take Beast Totem powers, and you have more choices to pick from. I highly recommend Superstition (but that also means no buffs/heal mid-rage), Reckless Abandon, Witch Hunter, and Spell Sunder.

This is off the top of my head, you should check out a guide or two to see if I didn't miss something obvious. Definitely look into rage cycling.

Also, why the book limitation? It seems pointless...

[Spore]

Create a Beast Totem Invulnerable Rager with Power Attack. Any racial preferences?

(1) Power Attack (more damage, prefer to use a twohanded weapon)
(2) Superstition (It's +4 on saving throws vs. spells while raging)
(3) Extra Rage Power: Lesser Beast Totem (claws are nice, but you are in it for Greater Beast Totem on Lv 10)
(4) Strength Surge (+10 on ANY strength check, that includes sunder attempts)
(5) Improved Sunder (Sunder Combat Maneuver +2 and no Attack of Opp.)
(6) Witch Hunter (extra damage on everything that has spells; which is a lot)
(7) Raging Vitality (rage on when below zero points, unless you want that to end your rage and instantly die)
(8) Spell Sunder (do a combat maneuver, which is BAB + Str Mod plus roll to dispel an ongoing effect)
(9) Extra Rage Power: Beast Totem (prereq for Greater Beast Totem, nat. AC is also welcome)

Although choices are debatable. You can sunder items, sunder ongoing spell effects once per rage, have DR 4/-, great damage and Fire (or Cold) Resistance of 3.

The continual feat string looks like this:

(10) Greater Beast Totem
(11) Combat Reflexes
(12) Come and Get Me

If you choose Human and get another free feat, choose Reckless Abandon (combined with Power Attack it gives you damage for less AC).

Human Barbarian

Str 20 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 11

Get a decent mithril breastplate, +1 Furious Greatsword, a Belt of Strength and some health potions (you cannot be voluntary target of heal spells while raging with Superstition, you have to save the will save, and you WILL make the save due to superstitiion's bonus) and if your budget allows it, take Boots of Striding and Springing. Charge towards the enemy and leap behind that river to eat his face!

Tell your buffers, that they need to buff you BEFORE entering the rage.

[DragonSinged]

@Keneth: I know, the dice rolls are crazy! I bought a new set of dice for this character, and apparently the luck gods were pleased by that, but yeah, every one of those rolls was witnessed by the GM, it was just crazy luck. Halfway through the HP rolls we both laughed when I got the five, we were wondering if I was going to roll under 8.
Thank you for the advice, as to rage cycling the best option I seem to be able to find is people have mentioned a flawed Ioun Stone that turns fatigue into nauseated, and a rage power that negates nausea - I'm not certain whether that's worth the investment?
As to the book limitations, I think what happened is he started with a more limited list, and then as players asked, "Well, is this book ok?" He went, "Oh, yeah, that makes sense, I guess" and added it to the list, which in the end makes the list seem kinda pointless, yeah. I guess he just wanted to restrict people from feat-hunting through every minor splat and adventure setting available.

@Sporeegg: I'm kinda thinking just your traditional human barbarian-king stereotype, not to mention I keep seeing people mention that humans get some kinda bonus to Superstition - I'll need to research how that stacks, exactly.

TBH, part of the appeal is that I saw this random review on a different forum: "Barbarian: You can build an absolutely sick beast barbarian now. A barbarian that can take most encounters and stomp them into garbage. A barbarian that casters hate because he only misses saves on a 1. A barbarian that eats magic, sunders spells, and can rip summoned creatures apart like cotton candy. That has insane hit points and can also dish insane damage. Probably the best melee class in the game right now."

It sounds pretty exaggerated, but it made me think, "Well, I've never actually played a Barbarian before, could be fun..."

EDIT: Just learned our GP total for gear is 46,000.

[Spore]

cotton candy. That has insane hit points and can also dish insane damage. Probably the best melee class in the game right now."


You know the strengths of the barbarian, but the weakness is still: They drop dead after killing the baddie. They plain die when their rage ends. Be prepared. Watch your HP (and note your maximum HP without rage, adding in another 18 HP, that are instantly lost when your rage ends, kill you. You are dead when you have 4 HP in rage left. Think beforehand.

Communicate your fellow players, that Colan, the Barbarian is still going strong, but even his endurance comes to an end. Fights with Barbarians are short and VERY bloody. For both sides.

+1 Furious Greatsword is 8,000 (counts as +1 when not raging and +3 when raging)
Belt of Strength/Con +2 is 10,000
Rhino Hide 5,165 (+2 Hide Armor, gives +6 AC, grants your +2d6 damage when charging)
Boots of Striding and Springing 5,500 (+5 in Acrobatics for long jumps, another 10 ft movement speed)
Cloak of Resistance +3 9,000
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 2,000
Ring of Sustenance 2,500 (just fluff, but who loves a barbarian, that only has to sleep 2 hours and has great perception (spot) checks? the group does!)
Ring of Protection +1 2,000

You just have just a bit cash money left then.

[Keneth]

I'm not certain whether that's worth the investment?

The flawed scarlet and green ioun stone + Internal Fortitude rage power is definitely the best investment you can make as far as rage cycling goes, because it enables you to use all 1/rage powers every round instead. Unfortunately, this method requires the Seekers of Secrets book, which means you wouldn't be able to choose Complete Champion for Spirit Lion Totem, and pounce is definitely something you want. You can get it via Beast Totem as described by Sporeegg, but that means wasting three rage powers, two of which are pretty bad.


I guess he just wanted to restrict people from feat-hunting through every minor splat and adventure setting available.

What's wrong with content hunting in splats? Especially in Pathfinder where you don't even need books, all the content is right there on the SRD. :smallconfused:


It sounds pretty exaggerated, but it made me think, "Well, I've never actually played a Barbarian before, could be fun..."

It is exaggerated. Barbarians certainly got more options, but they lost a great deal of raw power.

[Spore]

If that iouin stone is viable, go for it.

[DragonSinged]

@Sporeegg: You are among the most helpful people I have met on a forum. Thank you so so much for all the details.

@Keneth & Sporeegg: So, if the Ioun Stone isn't really an option, what kind of alternatives are there for rage cycling? The Human... heart of the fields or whatever it's called doesn't sound all that great, as you're trading skillpoints for relief from fatigue 1/day.. I'm also aware of the rage power that lets you re-enter rage from fatigue, turning it into long(ish)-term exhaustion at the end, which once again doesn't sound ideal. Is there a better option?

[Keneth]

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233032) is the Playground's guide to a Pathfinder barbarian. You can scroll down to the Rage Cycle section for more tips on rage cycling.

Do note that while rage cycling is a powerful option, it's not actually necessary to be effective. Personally, I'd try to convince the GM to let you purchase the ioun stone, even though you're choosing a different book for your "extra". Barbarians need all the love they can get. Or just convince him drop the whole limited books thing because it's ridiculous. I get being limited to a single 3.5 source in a Pathfinder game, but really all first-party Pathfinder content that can be found on d20pfsrd.com (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/home) should be allowed.

[Blyte]

at level 12, it's damn hard to beat "beastly come at me bro"

that being said, I hate cookie cutter builds.

so, for your consideration...

OVERRUN!!!

Human
Barbarian 6, monk(martial artist) 1, Fighter(brawler) 3, Barbarian X

Feats/Rage Powers
1 barb1 Power Attack
1 barb1 Combat Reflexes
2 barb2 Strength Surge
3 barb3 Improved Overrun
4 barb4 Overbearing Advance
5 barb5 Spiked Destroyer
6 barb6 Overbearing Onslaught
7 monk1 Greater Overrun
7 monk1 Vicious Stomp
8 fight1 Dragon Style
9 fight2 Extra Rage Power (quick reflexes)
9 fight2 Pushing Strikes
...
10 fight3 --- no feat or rage power but +1/+3 with close weapons group via brawler.
11 barb7 Extra Rage Power (X) (superstition, quick reflexes, auspicious mark..)
12 barb8 Rage Power X (... + unexpected strike)

Traits- optimistic gambler & barbarian of the society & alternate racial trait "heart of the fields"


ask the DM to allow a rhino hide shirt instead of rhino hide armor... so you don't get the movement speed loss for medium armor, and enchant it with "brawling".. if you are stuck with the medium version, it's ok...


(10k) rhino hide shirt of brawling <-- assuming your DM allows the armor to shirt modification. otherwise it's medium armor and can't take the brawling enchant. but on the plus side, it's only 5k.

(22k) +4 str / +2 dex belt
(4k) furious amulet of mighty fists
(4k) ring of resistance +2

(4k) ring of continual enlarge person <-- if your DM allows the "Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values" for magic item creation in the SRD.

(2k) misc gear

save for winged boots and cloak of the manta ray, to become an overrun ATV.

save for dueling gloves for more +2/+2 goodness.

[Keneth]

(4k) ring of continual enlarge person <-- if your DM allows the "Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values" for magic item creation in the SRD.

lol, no GM in their right mind would allow that. The guidelines for magic item prices dictate that the price should be compared to other similar items, which would put it somewhere closer to about 20,000 gp.

But 4k is enough for 80 potions of enlarge person though.

[DragonSinged]

@Sporeegg: Does bonus stacking work the same way in PF that it did in 3.5? You mentioned the amulet of Natural Armor, but also the Beast Totem, which both give Natural armor, so I'm guessing drop the amulet?

Also, I spoke with the GM, and it sounded like I would have to choose between the Ioun Stone and the Spirit Lion Totem, so I thought that the stone is probably the better option of the two, since my understanding is that I can get pounce through the greater beast totem at level 10.

@Blyte: GM agreed to Rhino Studded Leather instead of Rhino Hide, which if nothing else is nice for saving my move speed. :smallsmile:


EDIT: Also, with the Human bonus feat, is there anything preventing me from getting the Greater Beast Totem at level 9?

EDIT THE SECOND: Realized that for the Ioun stone to help at all, I need Internal Fortitude, so that ate my human feat.

[Sayt]

Amulets of Natural Armour gives you an enhancement bonus to natural armour, so it should stack with Beast Totem.

And generally, human bonus feat is chosen at/before level one, so probably not.

[Spore]

@Sporeegg: Does bonus stacking work the same way in PF that it did in 3.5? You mentioned the amulet of Natural Armor, but also the Beast Totem, which both give Natural armor, so I'm guessing drop the amulet?

Also, I spoke with the GM, and it sounded like I would have to choose between the Ioun Stone and the Spirit Lion Totem, so I thought that the stone is probably the better option of the two, since my understanding is that I can get pounce through the greater beast totem at level 10.

@Blyte: GM agreed to Rhino Studded Leather instead of Rhino Hide, which if nothing else is nice for saving my move speed. :smallsmile:


EDIT: Also, with the Human bonus feat, is there anything preventing me from getting the Greater Beast Totem at level 9?

EDIT THE SECOND: Realized that for the Ioun stone to help at all, I need Internal Fortitude, so that ate my human feat.

Bonusses are typed. Untyped bonusses stack. I don't know your group and your play style, but since you kill very quickly, I assume, you want full attacks on the move.

Greater Beast Totem has a level requirement of 10 barbarian levels.

But if you are into superior tactics, you could do battle/ancestors/metal oracle 5 (with the lame curse) effectively granting you immunity to fatigue. You take the hit to BAB, HP and useful revelations, take Spirit Lion Totem at 8 along with some 1/Rage Powers. This would be a more sophisticated playstyle.


at level 12, it's damn hard to beat "beastly come at me bro"

that being said, I hate cookie cutter builds.

so, for your consideration...


MALAI MAKE COOKIE OUT OF YOU! GRARARARA!

[Keneth]

You mentioned the amulet of Natural Armor, but also the Beast Totem, which both give Natural armor, so I'm guessing drop the amulet?

They're two different types: Beast totem gives natural armor bonus, and the amulet gives an enhancement bonus to natural armor. However, if someone polymorphs you, the resulting natural armor bonus does not stack with your Beast Totem's natural armor bonus. Likewise, if someone casts barkskin on you, the enhancement bonus to natural armor does not stack with your amulet's bonus.

Note that wasting any amount of resources on any kind of armor bonus is moot for a barbarian. You're gonna get hit pretty much 95% of the time, so what you want instead is to maximize your killing power.


Also, I spoke with the GM, and it sounded like I would have to choose between the Ioun Stone and the Spirit Lion Totem, so I thought that the stone is probably the better option of the two, since my understanding is that I can get pounce through the greater beast totem at level 10.

Wasting 3 rage powers for something you could get for free is not a good option by any stretch. As I said, rage cycling is not necessary, and there are other ways to do it. You want to focus on being a killing machine as soon as possible. Everything else should take a secondary role.

[Blyte]

lol, no GM in their right mind would allow that. The guidelines for magic item prices dictate that the price should be compared to other similar items, which would put it somewhere closer to about 20,000 gp.

But 4k is enough for 80 potions of enlarge person though.

I totally agree, but I have been in multiple games where they are using it.

I argued with a few DMs who allowed it, citing how many magic items (which are much more expensive) that these items make obsolete.

rings of expeditious retreat, shield, enlarge person, etc... once you get into the 2nd level spells it becomes more in line with paizo items and cost break down, but the 1st level spells are broken.

[Spore]

There is always the righteous might enchantment for increased size AND strength once a day.

[Blyte]

@Blyte: GM agreed to Rhino Studded Leather instead of Rhino Hide, which if nothing else is nice for saving my move speed. :smallsmile:


cool, there is a "hide shirt" on the SRD, under light armor as well. But i'm glad he agreed. +2d6 per attack on a charge rules!