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Were-Sandwich
2007-01-08, 06:50 AM
Im going to be GMing an Arrowflight game next weekend, and need help fleshing out my plot. The basic skeleton I have:


Characters get called to see old friend type guy
Guy has been doing research into the life of Rellian (he's kind of like Arrowflight's Jesus, except he was a rogue before he became a prophet, and was burned to death in the Purge of Others ('cuz he was an elf). The rellianite church is the bigggest one in the land)
Guy tells PC's of his findings: Rellian was not a loveable rogue, but a vicious bloodthirsty assassin who killed hundreds of men before being hit with the Divine Inspiration ray
Guy has Rellians weapon as proof (its Magic, and resonates Rellians signature)
Rellianite church assassins attack, from the Exhortiad (the hardline extremist faction of the church) and kill Guy, but the PC's somehow escape, with Rellian's weapon.And I have no idea where to go from there. Help?

goken04
2007-01-08, 07:01 AM
I have no familiarity with Arrowflight and have no idea who is Rellian's deity, but I can see a good morale for a type of story like this, as the PCs discover this prophets horrendous past, each detail of the plot comes together to paint an even worse picture of this guy, until finally, in the culmination of this thing, they realize Rellian (if he's still alive..? If not, a high official in the church) freely admits to all those charges against him. He uses this to point out the forgiveness and the extreme sovereignty of his deity. That his god is so powerful that he can change and use a wretch as horrible as him.

At least, that's how I'd do it.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-08, 07:41 AM
To clarify, Rellian is dead, and has been for several hundred years. He was the first prophet of Creator, and his martyrdom helped found the Rellianite church. So, basically, he's the Arrowflight equivalent of Jesus. The Rellian church celestial Hierarchy goes Creator (not The Creator, just Creator)>Rellian>Saints>Everyone else. Note that Rellian himself was not actually in the Rellianite faith, he was an Elementalist (sort of generic nature force worship). The Rellianite church preaches forgiveness, aceptance and the destruction of evil.

The exhortiad are the most fanatical, right-wing, militant branch of the Rellianite church. If any aspursions were cast as to Rellian's past, they'd be the ones going in to 'burn the heretic'.

goken04
2007-01-08, 07:53 AM
If Creator preaches forgiveness and acceptance, than certainly there's a high level cleric who would espouse what I suggested, no? Still, sounds like fun!

PCs fighting these nuts who want to supress the truth for the duration of the campaign, only to find out that the nutjobs are in the minority, and the high-up leaders actually knew all about this "horrible secret" and it actually STRENGTHENS, not weakens, their faith. It'd be like the DaVinci Code, except it would make sense.

I'm thinking Moses is a more apt analogy for this guy than Jesus, though. With Moses actually being a murderer and all.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-08, 08:13 AM
hmmm. My plan was for the secret past NOT to be known by the church, so before word can get out, the Exhortiad try to nip the heresy in the bud, so they can destroy all the evidence and make it look like an accident. The faith strengthening idea could work, I suppose. I intend for the Exhortiad to keep hounding them way after the short plot arc is over. Dunno what to do with Rellian's weapon though.

headwarpage
2007-01-08, 10:07 AM
What happens if your PCs jump to the forgiveness conclusion on their own or otherwise decide they don't really care what Rellian's past was? In that case, the challenge becomes trying to reach some sort of accomodation with the church that doesn't lead to them being permanently silenced. Maybe it doesn't really matter, though. What about this:

- Exhortiad agents realize that the PCs have escaped with the weapon, and set about trying to silence them. Presumably, this is what you already have planned.

- Exhortiad agents catch up with the PCs, and a confrontation ensues. This can proceed one of three (or more) ways - 1) The PCs happily turn the weapon over and, through a series of Bluff or Diplomacy checks, convince the agents that they either don't believe or won't repeat what they were told. The end, as long as they keep their word. This is rather anticlimactic, and probably not what you want to happen, but your players could conceivably manage to bring it about. 2) The PCs attempt to convince the agents that they don't believe or won't repeat what they were told, but aren't entirely successful. The end result is that the church tentatively accepts that they are loyal worshippers (know when to keep silent), but demands something of them to prove that they are indeed loyal. Use your imagination as to what that should be, but turning over the weapon is probably the least of it.

3), which gets it's own paragraph because it's likely to happen. The PCs kill or evade the Exhortiad agents. They'll either do this because they have no intention of cooperating, or because it's just what players tend to do when they're threatened. More agents are sent, obviously. The church may also declare the PCs to be heretics. If the church is particularly influential (which it seems to be), this could be extremely bad for the PCs, and they could find former friends and allies turning against them. If the PCs attempt to go public with their information, they will definitely be persecuted as heretics.

Now, if you feel like you want this to be more complicated, you could have an agent of some other group (which may or may not know the details of Rellian's past) contact the PCs. This group should be secret in nature, so as to avoid the notice of the church. They may simply be keepers of knowledge that the church doesn't like, in which case they'll just help the PCs stay hidden. Or they can style themselves as freedom fighters, trying to free the populace from the oppression of the church. They'll want to help the PCs, but they'll also want the PCs to help them.

If you're feeling really, really, mean, you can make this organization evil. Creator is essentially benevolent, and despite being heavy-handed, the church is a basically good organization (I don't know, this is just a supposition for this scenario). The noble rebels, however, are agents of some dark and forgotten (or not so forgotten) lord. Naturally, the PCs don't realize this for a while...

Ok, that got kind of long. I hope some of it helped you.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-08, 10:17 AM
hmmmmmmmmmmm......Thats a lot to think about.

Darrin
2007-01-08, 10:51 AM
And I have no idea where to go from there. Help?

Hmm. Sounds a little like, hate to say it, but the DaVinci Code. Your PCs are a group of heretic renegades that have the proof that the single most important religion in the world is based on a lie. They're going to be hunted down by religious extremists, shunned by the moderates, and possibly more frightening... choke on horribly overrused Dale Brown cliches.

I'd most likely just embrace the eye-rolling and have the players fall in with some conspiracy theorists, and drop clues/puzzles on them that lead them to various artifacts and ancient texts that gradually illuminate what *really* happened with Rellian's transcendence. From there you can build towards a few possible solutions:

1) The Rellian Conspiracy is All True. The Rellian church is going to want to squish the PCs fast. Their only hope is there's a secret cult within the church that's been working to overthrow the supposedly righteous hegemony and tell the people what's really going on, and hopefully institute a more honest "Reformation" based on the Real Truth. Play up the orthodox Rellians as pig-headed obstructionists who think the common folk should blindly trust that the church knows what's "best" for them.

2) The Rellian Conspiracy is an Elaborate Hoax. Some secret cult is plotting to overthrow the church, and they just happen to be a helluva lot more competent than your average conspiracy nutjobs. The sword and the enchantments making it look like a genuine religious artifact have been faked by some clever high-level spellcasting. Run option 1) until the PCs have thoroughly bought into it, and then yank the rug out from under them.

3) Everything You Know is Wrong. It's not clear if the conspiracy is a hoax or not. There's evidence on either side, but some of it is contradictory. Essentially after both sides have yanked the PCs around enough, you give them the decision: tell the people what they've found out and let them decide for themselves, or supress the "troubling" bits from public scrutiny to preserve the peace?

Dervag
2007-01-08, 11:05 AM
If you want to turn the backdrop of the campaign into an all-out general chaotic war, then you've also got this option:

Somehow, some high-level cleric in the Rellianist hierarchy finds out about the 'heresy'... and believes it. He does the equivalent of nailing the Ninety-Five Theses to the cathedral door and starts the Arrowhead equivalent of the Protestant Reformation. He might be calling for increased emphasis on redemption rather than on destroying evil. After all, if Rellian himself was once a foul sinner, then who knows what potential for good the church's paladins have been smiting all these years?

Or he might just be trying to use the heretic movement as a way to gain power over the Church.

Either way, some regions ally with the heretic movement. Call them the Redemptionists. The Redemptionists believe that even Rellian was once evil and was saved by Creator's grace. Therefore, they claim, any evil can be likewise saved. You can portray them as a bunch of really nice guys who want to convert everyone peaceably, or as a bunch of creepy guys who want to brainwash 'sinners' into touting the Redemptionist line.

Some areas are Redemptionist Rellianists now; others are Orthodox Rellianists. The Orthodox church, including the Exhortiads, gets nastier and nastier in an attempt to quash the Redemptionists. They start organizing inquisitions and military campaigns. They throw their support behind not-so-savory warlords and rulers who promise to bring Orthodoxy back to the Redemptionist lands. The result is something like the wars of religion in Europe during the 1500s and early 1600s- armies marching back and forth, devastating the countryside in the name of their respective Catholic and Protestant (or Orthodox and Redemptionist) causes.

Halcyon_Dax
2007-01-08, 12:20 PM
I like the double-twist that Relian actually was a great guy, and this is a big hoax.

The hoax could have been set up to get the 'extremely zealous group' to clean up some people that might have been troublesome. That guy, for instance, might have made some enemies, the hoax was started, he was killed, along with, perhaps, many others who the zealous group would kill, and the hoax starters would want to be killed.

Name_Here
2007-01-08, 02:08 PM
Maybe you could steer them to some huge celebration of Relian after a series of occurances where the players see all the good that has come of the religion (If any has of course). maybe they have to hide out in an orphanage run by the church or they see church officials going out of their way to help the poor and down trodden.
Then put them in a situation where they can bring down the whole church with this information. Then if they do you have the church descend into chaos and all their good works falling apart as people stop giving to the poor and stop supporting the orphanages. If they decide to keep the secret they might be contacted by a sect of the church that keeps the full and complete history of the church and wouldn't be shaken by the revelation.
*Idea stolen entirely from "The Simpsons"

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-08, 02:13 PM
wow. lots of responses. I didn't actually realise how close I was to The Da Vinci Code. Damn it. I don't have a line of people descended from Rellian, so I earn points there, right?

I like the hoax idea. I might just do that. Although, I was thinking, maybe the professor guy has set it up himself, so that he could send the religious world into termoil in order to ascend in the church hierarchy...somehow. Lets make him a combat chaplain instead, that way I can get a good fight scene out of him.

Question: How could he use the revelation to go up in the world? Im no good at politics.

headwarpage
2007-01-08, 03:15 PM
I have no idea how this sort of revelation could help him get ahead, but I'm no good at politics either. It seems to me that people who make revelations like this tend to end up as martyrs, or sometimes just dead. This sort of thing is much better suited to bringing down the church, as far as I can tell. If anybody gets anything out of it, it's usually the person who stops the chaos, not the one who starts it. Hmm... how about this one:

-The relic is a fake, but it was actually made by a very high-ranking church official. Maybe the head of the Exhortiad, making a play for the top church position?

- This person allowed the professor to 'discover' it, knowing the chaos it would cause. Obviously, none of this can be traced back to him.

- As this knowledge starts to spread through the church, this person spearheads an effort to 'reveal this heresy', taking sometimes drastic measures to prevent this information from reaching the general public and generally expanding his authority. The idea is that this 'heresy' is a tremendous threat to the church, and he's going to be the person who refuses to credit any of it and leads the fight against this threat to the church.

- The culmination of this plot comes when he 'finds' proof that the relic was indeed a hoax, setting himself up as the savior of the church, and the obvious choice for the next head of the church. If the current head of the church is fooled by the hoax, or appears weak during the chaos, he can probably be forced to step down immediately. Alternately, the plotter can try to frame the head of the church (or people close to him) for having a hand in the hoax to begin with.

Gamebird
2007-01-08, 03:29 PM
Another issue is whether your players are up for this sort of game. If you've already asked that, then ignore me. If not, think about it. A game of grey areas and moral ambiguity frustrates and annoys some players. One that plays around with core tenets of real world religions might do more than annoy them.

Tormsskull
2007-01-08, 03:43 PM
My thoughts:

Relian was an evil guy until he found religion/was inspired whatever. From that point forth he did not try to hide his past, only tried to be the best person he could be to his fellow man (assuming that's what the divine inspiration led him to behave like).

After his death the people who first started the religion based on his life preached forgiveness showing Relian as the perfect example of how the Light can find its way into even the darkest heart.

Evil BBEG of now-a-days infiltrated the right-wing extremist sect of the Relian church, turning them from semi-extremists to radical extremists. The BBEG did this in order to divide the church so he could later destroy it/corrupt it to his own uses.

Relian's weapon is a powerful magic item containing part of the dual nature of Relian himself. It contains his anger, hatred, and greed but also his compassion for his fellow man, his helpfulness, and his love. Any spellcaster who has the weapon can try to channel the good side or the bad side of Relian. The bad side has destructive/evil powers and the good side has protective/good powers.

The BBEG wants the weapon so he can initiate the Prime Conflict, which forces the two sides contained in the weapon to combat one another. Using his super evil BBEG powers he is going to influence the outcome of the battle, allowing the evil side to take full control, and then the BBEG plans to use the weapon to unleash a wave of hatred and darkness upon the land never before seen.

In recent years the right-wing side of the church has been searching for the weapon desperately but only recently found where it was. After guy is killed and PCs escape they will be constantly hounded by the agents of the church. The PCs seek to learn more about Relian so they can figure out what they can do with the weapon.

Eventually the PCs are forced to connect to the weapon because they are faced with some kind of life or death situation or alternatively, the weapon reaches out to them when they exhibit strong good or evil emotions. When that occurs tell one of the spellcasting PCs that they feel a resonance within their soul and a surge of magical energy rushes forward (appropriate spell based on emotion displayed).

The PCs will be approached by moderate Relian church members who tip them off as to locations they can visit to learn more about Relian and his divine inspiration.

Through several different adventures to lost libraries or locations Relian himself visited, they discover the Soulwell, a direct link between the mortal world and the BBGG. The BBGG explains the whole story to them, giving them the opportunity to cleanse Relian's weapon of its evil powers, bringing forth its true good powers.

They are then sent to combat the BBEG, but he is undefeatable. The only way to defeat him is to unleash the weapon's once per ever (only works once) power Divine Inspiration. Having done so, the BBEG is either destroyed or sees the light and becomes a servant of good.

Then, depending on how long of a campaign you plan on running, you can have the PCs sent off to defeat lingering groups of the former BBEG who refuse to throw down their weapons, etc.

Add in a "the weapon has been stolen we must track the thieves down before they reach X point" missions along the way and I'd say you have a solid foundation for a campaign.

headwarpage
2007-01-08, 03:56 PM
Another issue is whether your players are up for this sort of game. If you've already asked that, then ignore me. If not, think about it. A game of grey areas and moral ambiguity frustrates and annoys some players. One that plays around with core tenets of real world religions might do more than annoy them.

That's a very good point. You might want to downplay the "Jesus-like" nature of Rellian. Focus on him as a saint, the founder of the religion, or whatever, but try to keep the real-world religion parallels out of it, unless you're sure that your players are up for it.

Even if nobody's offended, be prepared for your players to be frustrated and annoyed by all the ambiguity you're throwing at them, unless you have the kind of group that goes for things like that. It's entirely possible that they may want to wash their hands of the whole thing and go back to ogre-hunting or whatever they were doing before. In that case, it might add some depth to the campaign world to let it all play out without them, but it's going to feel like a lot of wasted effort.

Belkarseviltwin
2007-01-09, 01:10 PM
To all those warning the OP about real-world religions: Arrowflight is a published setting. He's not just making up this Rellian person.

To the OP. re Tormsskull's Post: If you have the BoVD, Rellian's weapon looks the ideal artefact to call down an Apocalypse from the Sky (country-destroying 9th-level spell, that does big damage in a radius of hundreds of miles. Drawbacks: Material component of a corrupted good artefact, and you take unhealable damage just from knowing it).

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-09, 01:34 PM
You own Arrowflight? I thought I was the only person on this board who did. Both times I started a topic on it, no-one replied.

And alas, Arrowflight has no Apocalypse form the Sky, although it would be a good plot point. I'll have a revised plot hashed out soon.

Bouldering Jove
2007-01-09, 01:39 PM
If the Rellianite church is the biggest in the land, it must have some very interesting power relationships with political leaders. Some will probably have close ties with the church, but others may be on bad terms and find their rule hampered with church authority. If the church is basically good, the rulers the church provokes the most antagonism in may be evil.

If that's the case, then the players will have more than church zealots on their trail. Mercenaries and assassins will be sicced to get that weapon at all costs, because holding it means you have the power to blackmail the church or spearhead a "revolution" that will plunge everywhere the church has influence into bloody chaos.

You could play that multiple ways. The PCs could be harried on all sides and desperate to find a safe haven (maybe a high ranking cleric in the church more interested in the truth and doing good than orthodox fanatacism), or they could be sheltered by an evil ruler with seemingly good intentions and only later find out they're in the heart of darkness and need to get the weapon out of there.

The biggest problem I see, regardless of whether my ideas interest you, is that you're crafting the foundations of a gritty, politically-focused campaign that offers no easy choices and no happy endings. If you want to make this genuinely heroic, you need a large evil to fight. Maybe the church is totally corrupt and there'll be a showdown with its evil leaders, maybe this is a hoax and a plot by a crafty BBEG to start a civil war so he can rise to power, but if your players enjoy black-and-white heroism, you need some kind of unambiguous climax in the works.

Falrin
2007-01-09, 01:43 PM
- The weapon gets stolen. Retrieve it.

- The weapon gets destroyed. Some clues lead to a big secret dungeon which Rellian used as a hide-out when on a murdering rampage.

- It's not a secret, it's a big controversy.
One side, the majority, believes he was born a saint. We all know the cliché; virtue & empathy all over. This side believes Evil is irreversible. As they “rule the land” evildoers get punished everywhere with ferocity and severe penalties. Rather 100 innocent dead than let 1 criminal escape.
The other side is pro redemption. They believe he was evil but saw the light. They then to end up on stakes & pitchforks when a local church leader preaches a bit to passionate.

The Guy was one of them and they’ll help the PCs to bring out the evidence while a hardcore faction of the first side tries to silent them.

-There isn’t the slightest rumour of Rellian being evil. Guy is just a treasure hunter specialized in religious artefacts. He doesn’t get killed by a church group but by his new backstabbing party-member that wanted all the loot.

The PCS go after him and recover the artefact. They show this to the church and a big civil war breaks out (Protestants Vs Catholics type of thing). The PCs get some angry church members at them for doing this while preventing an escalating war.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-09, 02:04 PM
Damn it, the ambiguity thing could be a problem. The group has so far been playing plot-less hack-and-slash. This could be a culture shock,

How could I de-ambiguity it? adding fights is easy, although it could prove lethal with how danagerous Arrowflight combat is.

Dragonmuncher
2007-01-09, 02:59 PM
Instead of the Di Vinci Code, you could make it like "Serenity."

The ragtag group of misfits knows The Truth. Or maybe they only have the beginnings of The Truth. They begin a huge chase- only they're being chased. They have to get to... somewhere, where the truth will be broadcasted. Then, a la Wheel of Time, once the truth is revealed, some people accept it, some people go crazy, some people absolutely refuse to accept it and join an army of people who don't accept it... Maybe this secret is one only know to the extreme upper crust of the religion, who have kept it secret for fear of the chaos it might bring if everyone knew.

Maybe they bring it to a high offical they think they can trust. The offical wants more proof, so they somehow go back in time to the days of this Rellian guy, with instructions to get an amulet he supposedly wore that was lost right after his death.

From here we could see that he was really a nice guy, he was really a mean guy, he was really just a normal guy who got caught up in events beyond his control, etc.

Depending on how the time trip goes, maybe the party will have inserted themselves into the histories as "disciples who traveled with The Prophet," or somesuch.


Twist-twist-twist: It's irrelevant if Rellian was a good or a bad guy, the fact remains that his equipment contains a vast amount of power. And now the Trusted Church Official who has been helping the party turns out to be evil, just wanted the equipment for himself-perhaps some sort of ritual that will bond the equipment to him and give him buttloads of Power?


Another idea, similar to that- someone want to offer the items as a sacrifice to some demon or other, in exchange for power. The party could have to swap fake versions of the items (a la Baldur's Gate II, in the Drow City), and the demon would kill this insolant mortal and return to his home plane. Or go on a rampage. Who knows?



Maybe a prophecy, that the reincarnation of Rellian is coming, and the party must get the equipment to him?

Maybe they ignore this stuff, and just use the equipment, but then whoever uses it starts being spoken to/possessed by a supernatural entity, either Rellian himself or some good god or some bad god.


Maybe they use the equipment to ressurect Rellian (somehow?), and he leads them on a crusade to Reform the church. Or maybe he just goes "screw it," and runs off, but then returns to the party months later because people keep trying to kill him.


That's all I've got.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-09, 03:05 PM
I must admit, this plot was pretty much inspired by Serenity. I think time travel is a bit out of the Arrowflight magic systems scope, but its a good suggestion.

Green Bean
2007-01-09, 03:16 PM
Perhaps instead of travelling back in time to find an amulet, they could try to find some sort of an artifact where the party experience the memories of Rellian's fall/redemption. I dunno if it's possible under Arrowflight though.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-09, 03:21 PM
That would be very cool...I suppose I could tweak one of the Divination Theory spells...

I had an idea. To help with the hoax, the perpatrator ot someone to dress up as Rellian, and do all the evil stuff, imprinting the image on the artifact, so it would appear to be Rellian, seeing as the best reference they have of him are woodcuts

headwarpage
2007-01-09, 03:24 PM
If your group isn't accustomed to intrigue-heavy games, I'd say you'd want to stay away from some of the more convoluted suggestions in this thread. Keep this campaign arc relatively simple, and make sure at least one reasonable course of action is immediately apparent at any given time, so that your players don't get indecisive and frustrated. You can pull a plot twist on them, but limit yourself to one, and set it up so that once you've done your big reveal, it's clear what's going on, and who the enemy is. Also, give them the potential to get out of this arc quickly if it doesn't grab their interest - possibly by turning the weapon over to the church.

The 'hoax' scenario works well for this, because once the weapon is revealed to be a fake, the ambiguity clears up. I'd let it play out as follows:

The PCs escape with the weapon, and are pursued by the Exhortiad. There's some potential for ambiguity here, while the PCs try to figure out how to deal with the 'revelation' that Rellian wasn't such a nice guy after all. However, the main thing going on here is that the PCs are trying to evade/fight off the Exhortiad, which will hopefully keep their interest even if they're a little put off by the sudden plot that keeps happening to them.

(This is probably the part where you'll know whether this whole 'plot' thing is working out for your players. If it is, they'll respond to the revelation of the weapon in-character and act accordingly. They'll start making, and even executing, plans based on this revelation, without you having to prompt them. If it's not working for them, they'll fight off the Exhortiad agents and then look to you to throw them a plot hook/something to kill.)

After a little bit of this, either through their own efforts or by you hitting them with the plot stick, the PCs learn that the weapon is a fake. There are half a dozen good ways this could happen, my immediate idea is for them to encounter somebody who was involved in creating the fake weapon. At this point, there is no ambiguity, though there may still be some intrigue. The BBEG is doing this to bring down the church, he's evil, the PCs should stop him.

From there, it plays out fairly simply, as the PCs try to expose the plot. The NPC who tells them it's a fake should have one or two ideas for how to go about this, so that your players don't flounder around too much. Keep it all relatively simple, and mix in some combat where you need to.

The key to making this work is to keep an eye on your players. If they're enjoying all the intrigue and ambiguity, add more, string them along, and embellish as you see fit. If it seems like you're losing them, hit the abort button and throw them a quick, but dramatic, resolution.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-09, 03:32 PM
Hmm. I think I'll build in a few 'RP checkpoints', where I can see how much they're into the plot and such, and act accordingly.