Corrupting a Good Outsider (Pathfinder)

[Muja]

Here is the situation: I am currently hypothesizing over how to corrupt a good aligned outsider (namely a Lillend) into joining my characters cause. The character is Lawful Evil, and has the connections, power, and charisma to be a real threat to their mental well-being.

My question to you playgrounders is this: What steps could I take, either in RAW or roleplay, that would have a reasonable chance of success in converting this outsider to my cause or, if necessary, force them to serve me without a good chance of getting betrayed? Lets assume a reasonable amount of resources, all class abilities available for use, at around 8-10th level for a basic power limitation.

The first thing that comes to mind for me is Severe psychological torture, isolation, followed by being charmed and enthralled into killing increasingly innocent hostages placed in their cell in hope of being released. Its very sloppy, but given how alignment works eventually they would shift in alignment and develop some form of Stockholms Syndrome...or become psychotically enraged, not a great plan but thats why I'm here I think :smallamused:

[Angelalex242]

Well, back in 3.5, the surest way to do so would've been the Vile spell Mindrape, from the book of vile darkness.

However, Mindrape (and the redemption version, Sanctify the Wicked) don't work on Outsiders. A lillend is opposed to you on both the good/evil axis and law/chaos axis...

Frankly, I'm not sure a Pit Fiend could do what you're describing, let alone a mere mortal.

[Giarc]

You do realize that then can just kill themselves and be reformed on whatever plane the came from right?

[hamishspence]

However, Mindrape (and the redemption version, Sanctify the Wicked) don't work on Outsiders.


Where's that stated? I didn't notice it in the description of either power.

However- the Sanctified Creature template cannot be applied to Outsiders.

My guess is that the StW spell works- but the new body is identical to the old one - it doesn't gain the benefits of the template.

Maybe remove the Evil subtype if the DM is feeling generous.

[Muja]

You do realize that then can just kill themselves and be reformed on whatever plane the came from right?

That is definitely an issue that needs to be addressed :smallsigh: Hmm...I realise now that there is also the option of using a helm of opposite alignment on them, but this has two issues behind it. 1) The cursed item doesnt have a listed price, and requires DM approval to find. 2) the DC is 14 I believe, so unless it is rapidly taken on and off it is doubtful to work on them without a bit of luck

Also as much as I am also used to the concept of 3.P, I did mention it being strictly Pathfinder so sadly a scroll of mindrape or morality undone is out of the question I imagine..

[Craft (Cheese)]

The Broken Soul template in Bestiary 4 fits what you want to do almost perfectly. It results from a creature that's been tortured so much it turns Evil and gains special powers from its torment (like increased defensive abilities). A Broken Lillend is even the example creature!

The only problem is that the template turns creatures "Usually Chaotic Evil." Which may be a problem if you want to turn the lillend Lawful Evil instead, depending on how your DM interprets that. By RAW though it should be possible.

EDIT: An older, 3.5 version of the template can be found here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/broken-soul-cr-2), but it doesn't seem the official update has been put on the SRD yet.

[Muja]

The Broken Soul template in Bestiary 4 fits what you want to do almost perfectly. It results from a creature that's been tortured so much it turns Evil and gains special powers from its torment (like increased defensive abilities). A Broken Lillend is even the example creature!

The only problem is that the template turns creatures "Usually Chaotic Evil." Which may be a problem if you want to turn the lillend Lawful Evil instead, depending on how your DM interprets that. By RAW though it should be possible.

EDIT: An older, 3.5 version of the template can be found here (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/broken-soul-cr-2), but it doesn't seem the official update has been put on the SRD yet.

This, this I like :smallcool: It fits very well, and would make sense in context. It has less of the 'give into the fark side' vibe I was hoping for but then again it is way eviller then that as well. I will consult the DM when it is appropriate, though any addition ideas that I can shoot at them as alternative ideas are always welcome