[PF] Clarify casting while grappled

[Barstro]

In a recent adventure, my Witch was grappled by a constrictor snake (CMB +15 grapple). This terrified her, since she was used to staying outside of physical combat and was basically useless.

Since that time, she has wanted to be prepared for an event like this in the future. When she hits 7, she is considering taking Dimension Door, but I want to clarify if this would even be useful.

Casting Spells while Grappled/Grappling:
The only spells which can be cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler's CMB + the level of the spell you're casting) or lose the spell.
DC=10+15+4=29

When you make a concentration check, you roll d20 and add your caster level and the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type.
=d20+7+7 (Int of 24, thanks to Three Fold Aspect)
=d20 +14

So, my Witch would have to roll at least a 15, and succeed only 1/4 of the time? I have trouble believing she would find it worthwhile to keep that spell memorized for such a low chance of success.

Is the above correct, or am I missing something?

[CigarPete]

Concentration is 10+grappler's CMB, so only a 25. There are also traits and feats you can take to boost concentration.

[Psyren]

Concentration is 10+grappler's CMB, so only a 25. There are also traits and feats you can take to boost concentration.

...plus spell level, so OP's calculation is correct - it's DC 29. Higher-level spells are harder to cast in a grapple than lower ones.

@OP: Combat Casting is very important in PF, much moreso than in 3.5. So is hiding behind the meatshields, but they will screw up eventually and you'll be in harm's way.

[Barstro]

I have quoted the SRD where it states that the spell level is included as well (thus the +4). edit; swordsaged

Irrespective of that; barring feats or other special abilities, I am correct about what check needs to be made? If so, I guess she'll start saving up for a magic item or something else that will allow her to escape a bit more easily.

[Barstro]

Combat Casting is very important in PF, much moreso than in 3.5. So is hiding behind the meatshields, but they will screw up eventually and you'll be in harm's way.

Yeah. But she had so much fun going first thanks to her +12 Initiative and needing to get within 30 feet to hex. She'll just have to be more cautious now. Looks like round one will be "activate flight hex" from now on.

[CigarPete]

So apparently that is wrong on my DM screen. I pulled it out to double check as it was closest. That's disturbing. Now I wonder what else is wrong on my DM screen...

[Lord Vukodlak]

So apparently that is wrong on my DM screen. I pulled it out to double check as it was closest. That's disturbing. Now I wonder what else is wrong on my DM screen...
Check the fine print they're probably a little not that says "add the spell's level to these checks."

[Psyren]

Check the fine print they're probably a little not that says "add the spell's level to these checks."

So Asmodeus designed his DM screen? :smalltongue:

[Lord Vukodlak]

So Asmodeus designed his DM screen? :smalltongue:

No but because you almost ALWAYS add spell level to any concentration check its easier to add it once then four times.

[Psyren]

No but because you almost ALWAYS add spell level to any concentration check its easier to add it once then four times.

It was a joke - because he had to read the fine -

nvm

[Spore]

Combat Casting is very important in PF, much moreso than in 3.5. So is hiding behind the meatshields, but they will screw up eventually and you'll be in harm's way.

I was thinking about a witty alternative utilizing the feat defensive combat training and realized that combat casting is superior in most ways.

[CigarPete]

Check the fine print they're probably a little not that says "add the spell's level to these checks."

Nope. Injured while casting, Continuous damage, affected by non-damaging spell all include spell level in the DC calculation. That one has it left off. Well, at least I know it's wrong :smallfrown:

[grarrrg]

There's a Flow Chart (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Grapple) for that.

[JeenLeen]

Since Dimension Door only have vocal components (not somatic) do you need a Concentration check while in grapple?

I thought you only need that if it had somatic or material components, but I could very well be wrong.

[Khantin]

Get yourself some boots of escape http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-of-escape and pay your allies help you after.

[Psyren]

Since Dimension Door only have vocal components (not somatic) do you need a Concentration check while in grapple?

I thought you only need that if it had somatic or material components, but I could very well be wrong.

You do have to concentrate. If it had somatic components, he couldn't do it at all.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Since Dimension Door only have vocal components (not somatic) do you need a Concentration check while in grapple?


You always need to make a concentration check while grappled doesn't matter if it lacks a somatic component. In fact spells with somatic components are impossible to cast while pinned in pathfinder. But you can make the attempt while simply grappled

In 3.5 casting any spell with a somatic component is impossible while grappled or pinned.

So lacking a somatic component just makes casting the spell possible in certain situation's it won't lower or remove the concentration check.

[Spore]

Since Dimension Door only have vocal components (not somatic) do you need a Concentration check while in grapple?

I thought you only need that if it had somatic or material components, but I could very well be wrong.

Try speaking the words of power while a huge cobra squeezes the life out of you :D

[Barstro]

Get yourself some boots of escape http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/boots-of-escape and pay your allies help you after.

Those were on my "items to get" list. I just didn't' have it in front of my when I posted. And, I was trying to find a way to save money.

It seems absolutely ridiculous that an item that costs a mere 8,000gp (not too hard to find at this level) is infinitely better than a level 4 spell slot.

[Psyren]

It seems absolutely ridiculous that an item that costs a mere 8,000gp (not too hard to find at this level) is infinitely better than a level 4 spell slot.

The level 4 slot can hold other things besides Dim Door however. And the boots can be used by anyone, not just spellcasters. So it's perfectly reasonable to me.

[Barstro]

The level 4 slot can hold other things besides Dim Door however. And the boots can be used by anyone, not just spellcasters. So it's perfectly reasonable to me.

One of us is not making sense. Probably me. Let me solidify my stance.

Options as I see them.
1) Keep 8,000 gp, get some other boots
2) Lose 8,000 gp, have a level 4 spell slot available for a utility spell

Option 2 is much better. For just 8,000 gp, I get a spell that works 100% of the time (instead of around 25%) AND I get to prepare another level 4 spell. I would take that any day. The only reason I would ever consider actually preparing Dimensional Door is if I needed it outside of combat or if it were errata'd to not need a concentration check.

edit; or if I had Boots of Infinite Awesomeness That Cannot Teleport at All, and I really really wanted to be awesome all the time. Then I might prepare DD.:smalltongue:

[ArqArturo]

Quickened Still Silent Dimension Door: For when that pesky grappler thinks he can get away with it.

And. An Ode to Grapplers (http://youtu.be/KUwbgGXAdaA).

[Psyren]

Quickened Still Silent Dimension Door: For when that pesky grappler thinks he can get away with it.

Tetori Monk laughs and travels with you, or simply squeezes harder and says no.

[ArqArturo]

Tetori Monk laughs and travels with you, or simply squeezes harder and says no.

:smallfurious:

(Don't let my grappling player see this).

EDIT: I love how they describe the Tetori as a Majestic Wrestler. Since when Mike Haggar and Zangief are majestic?.

[Barstro]

Quickened Still Silent Dimension Door: For when that pesky grappler thinks he can get away with it.


What's that level? 8? And I think you still need to do a check. (please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't have time to look it up right now).

I just think DD is not nearly powerful enough to warrant a Level 4 slot. At least not as a way to *possibly* escape a grapple.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

At that point, isn't Freedom of Movement more efficient? Outside of a Tetori?

[Psyren]

Well, DD isn't a bad choice for Spell Perfection, and you don't really need to silence it, so it would then clock in only at 5th-level.

But personally I would rather Contingency it with the condition "if I'm grappled." (Or just use the boots. Boots are cool.)

[ArqArturo]

Well, DD isn't a bad choice for Spell Perfection, and you don't really need to silence it, so it would then clock in only at 5th-level.

But personally I would rather Contingency it with the condition "if I'm grappled." (Or just use the boots. Boots are cool.)

Boots, eh? Oh, oh, oh. We want to boots to defend ourselves against grapplers, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Dimension Door not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad. When you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal tetori monk with some homebrewed Reaping Mauler prestige class comes after you, don't come crying to me!... (Monty Python quote, btw :smallsmile:).

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Dim Door doesn't have a somatic component. Silenced will do.

[Barstro]

Contingency is not a Witch spell (and not available for a long time, even if it were).

Freedom of Movement is likewise not a Witch spell, but
1) If it were, it would still require a concentration check, but cannot be used while grappled, so...
2) Would still need someone else to cast it on the Witch.

Man, being grappled really sucks for a magic user. I hope my girl can find herself some nice boots.

[Psyren]

Contingency is not a Witch spell (and not available for a long time, even if it were).

I was speaking in general (i.e. responding to the metamagicked Dimension Door strategy) not talking specifically about Witches.



Man, being grappled really sucks for a magic user.

That's sort of the point :smalltongue: