Tarquin with another alignment (regarding Elan)

[AyuVince]

Over the course of the OOTS story, the Giant has always emphasized the idea that a character's alignment doesn't dominate every aspect of their personality and actions.

So I've been thinking... How would Tarquin act if he had a different alignment, but the same idea about his legacy ("my son must be the hero")? If Tarquin were Lawful Good or Chaotic Neutral, how do you think he would promote Elan to a protagonist role?

[Sunken Valley]

An LG or CN Tarquin would not be Tarquin. It would also mean a totally different Nale. Maybe there would have not been a divorce and Elan and Nale would be raised side by side.

[ChristianSt]

I don't think a chaotic "Tarquin" would care that much about Elan being leader or not.

(On another note: I would say Elan is already a protagonist: one of six - but that is not enough for Tarquin)

[AstralFire]

An LG or CN Tarquin would not be Tarquin. It would also mean a totally different Nale. Maybe there would have not been a divorce and Elan and Nale would be raised side by side.

I could very easily see LG Tarquin. Not in the sense that the current guy would progress into him, but a near-equivalent (and even one that raised Nale) makes sense to me very much so. Much of the arc would have gone the same way - LG Tarquin isn't selfish, but he remains extremely self-centered.

No pyre of burning people, but something extremely ostentatious like a Charity Orphanage arranged in the shape of Elan's name that's not very efficiently built to actually use.

This Tarquin still would have declined to directly assist the PCs because "I'm a benefactor, don't you know? We never directly engage the villain except to die. And it would be extremely difficult to keep this coalition going for the better survival and peace of the continent without me." (Life would be better, but not grand, since he'd still have to play the shell game. An LG playing a CN trick for the sake of a pattern of order and instability.)

When Nale rejected him, Tarquin would have had Nale handed over to a fair and just court for execution, and personally funded an excellent lawyer for both sides, so that none could accuse him of unfairness, while also making sure that the mistake of his seed is trampled.

He'd probably still even be friends with Malack, but he'd go behind the scenes constantly to actively hamper Malack's plans, and has contingencies set to assure Malack's death in the event that he actively begins to set up the Nergal processing plants.

The biggest divergence would be in our current mark at the plot arc. This Tarquin would not have done what the actual Tarquin has done. No, he'd appeal to Elan's sense of honor and rightness; that it must be a better man than he, one with greatness behind him, to unite the lands of the Western Continent once and for all. And only a charismatic hero who defeated Xykon could say that. He would say that it's the only way Haley will ever really respect Elan.

And when Elan denies that, this Tarquin gets pretty grumpy. So what does he do instead? He gives his blessing for the rest of the party to leave, but his son is getting one hell of a training montage. They need the best possible chance. And he'd have his support craft expensive magic items that only work on or require Bard class features, so Elan couldn't hope to share them with the rest of the party.

CE Tarquin ... would act identically to LE Tarquin in the broad strokes, I think, but his personal demeanor would be very different.

[dancrilis]

Tarquin: Well son it is great to meet you, I always regretted leaving you with your mother - and I can see that that hurt you and left you unable to raise to your potential. But don't worry I can set you straight.

Pretty much regardless of alignment that could be Tarquin's attitude.

Any Good Tarquin: More concerned with how Elan can help the Empires to ensure a legacy and the promotion of goodness.
Considered Xykon simply a minor diversion where Elan should be learned the ways of state.
Willing to drive a wedge between Elan and the Order by highlighting how much good he could do and how little he has done.

Any Neutral Tarquin: Wants to keep his son close and out of danger, and raise him to be a someone that could make the Empires last longer for his legacy.
Willing to use some underhanded tactics to keep him around and safe while the rest move on - easy quests handed down to help townsfolk etc.

Any Evil Tarquin: See comic (if you accept that he is evil of course).

Sure Chaotic Lawful and Neutral might behave differently in that, and any alignment might be drastically different than the above.

So in answer to your question:
How would Tarquin act if he had a different alignment, but the same idea about his legacy ("my son must be the hero")?

Much the same but using different methods to drive Elan to be a hero (ones that divert him from Roy but don't have Roy dead - baring evil).

[oonker]

I could very easily see LG Tarquin. Not in the sense that the current guy would progress into him, but a near-equivalent (and even one that raised Nale) makes sense to me very much so. Much of the arc would have gone the same way - LG Tarquin isn't selfish, but he remains extremely self-centered.

No pyre of burning people, but something extremely ostentatious like a Charity Orphanage arranged in the shape of Elan's name that's not very efficiently built to actually use.

This Tarquin still would have declined to directly assist the PCs because "I'm a benefactor, don't you know? We never directly engage the villain except to die. And it would be extremely difficult to keep this coalition going for the better survival and peace of the continent without me." (Life would be better, but not grand, since he'd still have to play the shell game. An LG playing a CN trick for the sake of a pattern of order and instability.)

When Nale rejected him, Tarquin would have had Nale handed over to a fair and just court for execution, and personally funded an excellent lawyer for both sides, so that none could accuse him of unfairness, while also making sure that the mistake of his seed is trampled.

He'd probably still even be friends with Malack, but he'd go behind the scenes constantly to actively hamper Malack's plans, and has contingencies set to assure Malack's death in the event that he actively begins to set up the Nergal processing plants.

The biggest divergence would be in our current mark at the plot arc. This Tarquin would not have done what the actual Tarquin has done. No, he'd appeal to Elan's sense of honor and rightness; that it must be a better man than he, one with greatness behind him, to unite the lands of the Western Continent once and for all. And only a charismatic hero who defeated Xykon could say that. He would say that it's the only way Haley will ever really respect Elan.

And when Elan denies that, this Tarquin gets pretty grumpy. So what does he do instead? He gives his blessing for the rest of the party to leave, but his son is getting one hell of a training montage. They need the best possible chance. And he'd have his support craft expensive magic items that only work on or require Bard class features, so Elan couldn't hope to share them with the rest of the party.

CE Tarquin ... would act identically to LE Tarquin in the broad strokes, I think, but his personal demeanor would be very different.

That could not have been better written.

[Mike Havran]

Making Elan the Hero by defeating Tarquin definitely requires Tarquin to be Evil, since just about every classic heroic story was about Good vs. Evil. So Tarquin would be the same as he is now.

There could also be a Lawful Crazy Tarquin that pretends to be the Evil Tyrant (without actually doing the stuff - he would only say that the burning sticks in the distance are slaves, while just litting up a few bonfires; he would only say it's a phoenix pate while serving a spiced up soya slice) for the sake of the Drama. Like the actors that play the bad guys in Hollywood films.

Other alignments would require Tarquin to be a mentor (:smallamused:), or an irrelevant supporting father figure who gives the young boy a few kernels of wisdom (they will come handy later) in the beginning and rejoices the ultimate victory at the end.

[The Pilgrim]

A LG Tarquin would be probably as much obnoxious in trying to force his sons to follow his dictates, but if they refused he would just disown them at most, or just be as annoying as Eugene is to Roy. He would never murder people, much less his sons, or threaten their lives.

A CN Tarquin would give them advices about how to be like himself at every turn, but if his sons ignored him, he would very much ignore them back. The kind of way Tarquin acts with his sons is very much diametrically opposed to CN behaviour. A CN is the ultimate individualist, who also tends to respect other people's individuality. The thing a CN hates most is someone who tells others how to behave, or/and attempts to force his outlook on others - exactly what Tarquin is.

[DaggerPen]

Any Evil Tarquin: See comic (if you accept that he is evil of course).

If you don't accept that he is evil: DEFINITELY see comic.

(More seriously, though, the rest is really solid.)

[Thrawn183]

CE Tarquin would have killed Nale much earlier.

[3WhiteFox3]

CE Tarquin would have killed Nale much earlier.

This, a CE Tarquin would not give anyone second chances, and he wouldn't protect Nale from the consequences of his actions. If Nale got himself killed, he'd just shrug and say that he didn't prove himself worthy of being his son.

[Fish]

So what would a Tarquin look like whose big spiky evil helmet were a Helm of Opposite Alignment?

[AyuVince]

So what would a Tarquin look like whose big spiky evil helmet were a Helm of Opposite Alignment?

Chaotic Good? He'd probably look like Ian Starshine. Big on liberating the oppressed masses, but still a jerk when it comes to family matters ;)

[The Pilgrim]

This, a CE Tarquin would not give anyone second chances, and he wouldn't protect Nale from the consequences of his actions. If Nale got himself killed, he'd just shrug and say that he didn't prove himself worthy of being his son.

I fail to see where in the definition of LE it says "LE gives second chances to minions and protects people from their actions". :smallconfused:

Given that the main reason of the hatred Nale felt for his father was, in fact, Tarquin's stubborness to shape and control his son (which is more a Lawful trait than Chaotic), a Chaotic Evil Tarquin could actually NOT have killed his son at all, since a CE Tarquin wouldn't have paid as much attention to Nale's education, resulting in Nale not being so obsessed with reaffirming himself by denying his father, resulting in Nale's rant in #913 not happening, etc.

[The Oni]

CG Tarquin would, by necessity, still have to be a control freak. He's not himself if he isn't. But rather than forcibly trying to make people follow him, he'd still be an adventurer himself, trying to be the ultimate example. When people didn't live up to his high standards he'd say "f*ck that" and quickly acquire another group that shared his firm belief in goodness.

LG Tarquin...well, is probably a lot like Roy's dad, but suave and charming and probably not dead.

CE Tarquin would have dispensed with the formalities ages ago and PERSONALLY orchestrated the attack on Elan's hometown designed to force him into adventuring. Rather than try to maintain order in the Empire he'd rule with just enough ironfisted grip to keep it from completely falling apart, while meanwhile he is much as before.

There's nothing Neutral about Tarquin. His heroes vs. villains, law vs. anarchy worldview doesn't allow it.

[AyuVince]

And with Julio Scoundrel back in the game, we have an actual CG father figure for Elan.

Oh my, I just had an idea. What if Julio's original crew was the "good" counterpart to Tarquin's adventuring group? It would be hilarious if Team Tarquin had their own Linear Guild once.

[dancrilis]

And with Julio Scoundrel back in the game, we have an actual CG father figure for Elan.

Chaotic Neutral actually.

[Drakilian]

Over the course of the OOTS story, the Giant has always emphasized the idea that a character's alignment doesn't dominate every aspect of their personality and actions.

So I've been thinking... How would Tarquin act if he had a different alignment, but the same idea about his legacy ("my son must be the hero")? If Tarquin were Lawful Good or Chaotic Neutral, how do you think he would promote Elan to a protagonist role?

A LG Tarquin would be Roy's dad.

[AstralFire]

A LG Tarquin would be Roy's dad.

Eugene and Tarquin are extremely different in every way except that both are self-absorbed. :smallconfused:

[drazen]

Sure Chaotic Lawful...might behave differently in that

I don't play D&D, but I've read up on Good/Evil and Law/Chaos.

How could one be Chaotic Lawful? Is that a Miko-like adherence to a black-and-white philosophy... that is as complicated as Elan's mothers waitressing schemes? :)

[dancrilis]

How could one be Chaotic Lawful? Is that a Miko-like adherence to a black-and-white philosophy... that is as complicated as Elan's mothers waitressing schemes? :)

It should have been Chaotic, Lawful and Neutral.

My opinion focused on the moral element rather than the ethical one.

[Drakilian]

Eugene and Tarquin are extremely different in every way except that both are self-absorbed. :smallconfused:

Umm, let me re-phrase that:

A lawful good Tarquin would pester Elan to become a primary protagonist the same way that Roy's dad pesters him to become a Wizard. (Which was, in essence, what the question was: How do you think Tarquin would try make Elan a protagonist his alignment was different?)