[PF] Alchemists and Their Mutagens

[Gorfnod]

I recently posted the following question in the PF Q&A thread...

"What changes, if any, are applied to an Alchemist's bombs and extracts during temporary (less than 24 hour) changes to intelligence? I am primarily concerned with mutagen and cognatogen use."

I recieved some answers that partially answered my question but would like to get some clarification and ask for some additional info.


Temporary bonuses increase the DC and the bonus damage of bombs.

This seems rather straight forward and I assume the inverse to be true. Int penaltys would decrease DCs and bonus damage of bombs and bonus damage to other thrown splash weapons.


The save DC of extracts will increase too, e.g. an extract of Fire Breath, as will the damage bonus to non-bomb splash weapons like holy water.

This one seems clear but is the DC of an extract set at the time of use or the time of creation? If I prepare all my extracts ahead of time and then gain a penalty to Int (from a Strength mutagen) would the DC go down?

In addition a penalty to Int would appear to decrease my bonus extracts per day but if I have already prepared them do they continue to exist or lose their potency?


With bombs I have a similar issue.
If I increase my Int, I increase the number of bombs I can throw. Are these extra bombs consumed first, thus leaving my other bombs available when my Int returns to normal?

If I lose Int, my number of bombs decrease for the time being but if the penalty goes away, do I gain the unused bombs back or are they lost?

[Spore]

As the books state, that extract are totally not spells, I'd say, the DC counts for when the extract was made. Balancewise, the alchemist can use every edge they can get.

[Mr. Whatever]

I would make the argument that because bombs are a daily resource, you would not receive additional bombs unless you received a permanent bonus. But this is just my personal interpretation.

If you did get extra bombs though, I imagine they would function like HP boost from a con bonus, and would not be consumed first.

Going the opposite route, if you only gain bonus bombs for a permanent int boost, then you wouldn't lose bombs except for a permanent int drain. If you do gain extra bombs immediately, then you would lose bombs immediately, and if you lost 1 bomb and only had 1 bomb use left then you would be unable to throw anymore bombs.

[Psyren]

1) Number of bombs do not increase due to a temporary Int increase any more than spell slots do. You need a permanent or at least 24 hour duration increase to do that. All a temporary increase will do is raise the damage and DC.

2) All variables of an extract are determined when it is drunk, not when it is made.

[Gorfnod]

Thanks for setting me straight guys.

[Keneth]

Psyren is correct, only permanent changes to Int, such as from wearing a headband of vast intelligence for 24 hours or ability drain, would affect the number of bombs and extracts an alchemist receives per day. I imagine if the change happens after you prepare them, some of them simply lose potency.

Any temporary changes to Int, such as ability damage or fox's cunning, only affect the variable effects of bombs and extracts (bonus damage, DC, etc.). And yes, these are determined when you throw bombs or drink extracts, rather than when they're made. While this might not make the most sense, consider that both bombs and extracts are still magic, so you ain't gotta explain sh​it. :smallbiggrin:

[Spore]

Psyren is correct

As for my two weeks in this forum: I think this sentence is superfluous.

You are very helpful and always nice. Keep on trucking, Psyren.

[Psyren]

As for my two weeks in this forum: I think this sentence is superfluous.

You are very helpful and always nice. Keep on trucking, Psyren.

*bows*

I learn new things every day here, no joke. Great community!

[Keneth]

Looks like you've got yourself a fan, Psy. :smallbiggrin:

[Spore]

He was the first one to help me here and he put a lot of effort and information in it. Fan isn't the right word but I like your style to comment.

[Chained Birds]

*bows*

I learn new things every day here, no joke. Great community!

You and Grarrrg are pretty good.

It is always funny seeing Grarrrg's name pop up in most Paladin/Oracle threads. :smallbiggrin: