[PF] Mythic Adventures/Characters: Are the rules any good?

[Squirrel_Dude]

The rules for Mythic power are something that I've long been aware of, but haven't been able to gather any desire to really look at. It might just be that I was coming of a 20th level combat-heavy "campaign" (it was basically just playing around with 20th level silliness), and so a greater amount of power-creep didn't interest me. I still don't really see the point of them.


Anyway, I'm asking the playground about them. Have any of you taken time to look through them? If so, what did you think?

[Elderand]

I've seen it suggested to give mythic access to mundane and not casters as a way to balance things out.

[Hylas]

I haven't played mythic, but I've read over it with a focus on "do mundane classes get anything cool?" and mundane classes get some cool things. Right off at mythic tier 1 a champion can swift action to move+attack and increase your base land speed by 30. Other powers I fancy are jumping really high (like a Dragoon from Final Fantasy) and shooting arrows really far. Some of the mythic feats range from awful (furious focus) to awesome (power attack, rapid shot). As a bonus, mythic vital strike works how people often mistakenly think it works.

Trickster gets some good out of combat abilities too. I also like the rules that allow players to be worshiped as a god and grant cleric spells.

I barely bothered to read the magical mythic stuff because I figured that even if they suck then wizards are still awesome. I remember there being some powers that give them effectively more spell slots.

[IronFist]

Wow, Mythic Vital Strike is nifty.

[Psyren]

Some of the mythic spells are fun such as mythic grease being flammable. But like Hylas I focused on the mundane stuff and there are some really nice toys there. I've listed some of the standouts in other threads, I'll see if I can dig them up.

[avr]

For spells, buff spells (prayer, haste etc.) get 50 to 100% better, 1-round debuffs or save-or-suck (like murderous command) tend to make the duration your mythic tier in rounds, and various other spells (but not all) get various powerups.

e.g.

Enervation

The number of negative levels inflicted increases to 1d6, and the target is sickened for 24 hours. An undead creature struck by the ray gains 1d6 × 5 temporary hit points for a number of hours equal to your caster level.

Augmented (3rd): If you expend two uses of mythic power, any creature attempting to remove the target's negative levels must succeed at a caster level check (DC 10 + your caster level + your tier).

Enlarge Person

You can increase the target's size by up to two size categories, to a maximum of Huge. If the target grows two sizes, its weight increases by a factor of 25, it gains a +4 size bonus to Strength, and takes a –4 size penalty to Dexterity and a –2 penalty on attack rolls and to AC because of its increased size. A Medium humanoid creature whose size increases to Huge has a space of 15 feet and a natural reach of 10 feet. Mythic enlarge person counters and dispels mythicreduce person.

Entangle

The spell functions in areas without any vegetation, causing plants to spring up out of the ground. These plants can reach creatures that are up to 10 feet in the air. Plants affected or created by the spell sprout thorns that deal 1d6 points of damage each round to creatures in the area.

[Raven777]

Mythic Vampires can turn off the sun. I am not making this up.

[ZeroSpace9000]

Sadly, like with anything, casters do get the best abilities. One of the Archmage Aracana's, Wild Aracana, lets you pull any spell off of your class list and cast it for 1 point of mythic power. It is stupidly good. Seriously. I'm playing in a mythic game IRL, and our wizard took it and has yet to regret it. Also, Display of Dexterity is pretty nice, since it lets anyone who takes it act in an earlier initiative bracket than people who don't. A +20 boost is real nice. A shame my current DM wouldn't let me take Iajustu Focus. That would've combo-ed so well with Display of Charisma.

The only problem I've seen thus far is that a lot of the abilities are decidedly mediocre, particularly the Trickster's Supreme Stealth replicating only parts of the 3.5 feat Darkstalker. Also, I'm still ticked that Impossible Speed is Champion only. My 3.5-import Factotum Trickster would have loved some of that.

Oh, and Legendary Items (Pathfinder's take on Legacy Items) kinda suck if you don't make a weapon. It's like Paizo is insulted by the idea that you would want to use your Legendary Item to do something other than kill people.

[Pokonic]

Mythic Vampires can turn off the sun. I am not making this up.

To be fair, if your party is fighting a mythic vampire, they should already be expecting something like that to happen.:smalltongue:

[IronFist]

To be fair, if your party is fighting a mythic vampire, they should already be expecting something like that to happen.:smalltongue:
And it is awesome!

[Kudaku]

I haven't really sat down and done a comprehensive read through the list, but some of the archmage abilities strike me as incredibly powerful (compared to what the other paths like champion and trickster are offered) and are available from Mystic tier 1 - Wild Arcana is basically the RAW/RAI version of Paragon Surge, only it's a swift action and you don't need to be level 6.

I've been toying with the idea of putting some of the trickster path abilities on the rogue talent list... Things like Supreme Stealth, Trap Taker, Unwavering Skill or This Might Just Work would be interesting as talents or advanced talents that really helps the rogue stand out in the 'skill monkey' role.

[Stux]

The general consensus seems to be that there is a lot of awesome stuff in the mythic rules, but that no one would ever really use the system as written.

As others have said, a lot of the mythic feats for mundanes are actually pretty balanced in a non-mythic game. Obviously a lot stronger than what a fighter say would normally get, but hardly game breaking. It would just help keep mundanes a bit more relevant at higher levels in parties with full casters.

[Crustypeanut]

I'm currently running a homebrew Mythic campaign.. so I'll let you all know how that goes once my players are mythic. They're level 2 right now.. and not yet mythic. XD

As to what they'll be fighting.. I look forward to throwing Mythic Fallen angels' at em. ;0

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Some of the Grappling abilities that the Champion can take are, if not powerful, per say, but they are really awesome. In fact, one of the illustrations in of the barbarian pregen throwing an ankylosaurus at a tyrannosaurus. While the monk is flying through the air ready to punch out the other tyrannosaur. Perfect Strike is pretty cool for a Magus, too.

Trickster gets some fun abilities, like Wall-Run (move across any surface as if moving normally. You can scale a 50-foot building in one round), Combat Trickery (feels like a rogue talent, but a very powerful one, given that you have probably twinked out your Bluff), and Deadly Dodge (burn 1 MP to get +4 dodge for 1 turn. Lame. Any attacks made against you provoke an AoE. Ok. Can force the attacker to shift the attack to something else he threatens. Friggin awesome.)

[Crustypeanut]

Some of the Grappling abilities that the Champion can take are, if not powerful, per say, but they are really awesome. In fact, one of the illustrations in of the barbarian pregen throwing an ankylosaurus at a tyrannosaurus. While the monk is flying through the air ready to punch out the other tyrannosaur. Perfect Strike is pretty cool for a Magus, too.

Trickster gets some fun abilities, like Wall-Run (move across any surface as if moving normally. You can scale a 50-foot building in one round), Combat Trickery (feels like a rogue talent, but a very powerful one, given that you have probably twinked out your Bluff), and Deadly Dodge (burn 1 MP to get +4 dodge for 1 turn. Lame. Any attacks made against you provoke an AoE. Ok. Can force the attacker to shift the attack to something else he threatens. Friggin awesome.)

I have that scene as my wallpaper! Love it! The Monk just looks too bad ass.

[IronFist]

Slayer's Cyclone is also a very badass ability Tricksters get. Basically, as a full-round action, move up to twice your speed attacking everyone you can reach. Consider how well this interacts with Master Strike or the trickster attack abilities and it gets very awesome very fast.

[Alleran]

To be fair, if your party is fighting a mythic vampire, they should already be expecting something like that to happen.:smalltongue:
And be prepared to fight in the shade.

[Unbalanced]

We introduce the mythic playtest to our 3.5 game and I hated it.
It was so OP and broken.

Now we're playing a PF game and we took on the mythic "template" (if you will) at level 5. The revised and published mythic book however is pretty cool.
Much more scaled and our party of 2 level 5 characters are taking on CR6+ enemies.

As far as I can tell its a way to add a little extra power and a little extra variation into a game. I wouldn't have any problems recommending it.

P.S. I took the Guardian path and it's provided some serious upgrades to my character.

[Nightraiderx]

And be prepared to fight in the shade.

"Their Vampires can blot out the sun...-"
"Then we shall fight in the darkness."

[The Random NPC]

I haven't really sat down and done a comprehensive read through the list, but some of the archmage abilities strike me as incredibly powerful (compared to what the other paths like champion and trickster are offered) and are available from Mystic tier 1 - Wild Arcana is basically the RAW/RAI version of Paragon Surge, only it's a swift action and you don't need to be level 6.

I've been toying with the idea of putting some of the trickster path abilities on the rogue talent list... Things like Supreme Stealth, Trap Taker, Unwavering Skill or This Might Just Work would be interesting as talents or advanced talents that really helps the rogue stand out in the 'skill monkey' role.

FYI Wild Arcana has been semi-errattaed, now it takes a standard action (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gl#v5748eaic9r83).

[Chained Birds]

FYI Wild Arcana has been semi-errattaed, now it takes a standard action (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gl#v5748eaic9r83).

And it would appear Vampires don't block out the sun.

[Tanuki Tales]

And it would appear Vampires don't block out the sun.


Eclipse (Su)

At 10th rank, a mythic vampire can expend one use of its mythic power to blot out the power of the sun in a 1-mile radius. This entire area is affected by the spell deeper darkness for 1 hour. The mythic vampire's can see through this darkness.

Um...

Stupid 10 character limit.

[Psyren]

I honestly don't see the big deal about vampires; any run of the mill vampire could cast (deeper) darkness on a rock and move around in broad daylight anyway. And they're not shutting off the sun, they're just casting a bigass haze to hide from it under.

[Manly Man]

Besides, it'd be even more fun, as well as evil, if they just went Legacy of Kain on it and built furnaces to belch smoke into the sky and block the sun's poisonous rays.

[Craft (Cheese)]

The more math I run with it, the more I'm starting to think the most overpowered thing in the entire Mythic Adventures book is: Mythic Spell Focus.

For the cost of two feats, you get +2 to spell DCs with one school (+4 with Greater Spell Focus). Here's the kicker though: You can expend one usage of Mythic Power to make the enemy roll their save twice and take the lower result.

As far as I can tell, the wording of the feat makes it compatible with Persistent Spell, making your enemy have to roll their save 4 times.

If your enemy had a 50% chance of saving before? Now their chance is only 6.25%. 40% chance? Now it's ~2.6%. 60%? ~13%. Combined with miscellaneous DC min-maxing (like taking Enhanced Ability (Intelligence) and putting all of your mythic ability increases into INT), suddenly saving throws no longer matter because pretty much any level-appropriate enemy is all but guaranteed to fail, even on a strong save.

("Spell Resistance", you say? Eldritch Breach. Seriously, that's an almost-automatic pick for any mythic spellcaster.)

[CockroachTeaParty]

So... so the Mythic guide that I've been writing is pushing 80 pages long. I'm not even finished with Mythic Feats yet (I'm somewhere in the 'S's). I've still got Mythic spells and items to go...

Should... should I stop? Is there a point where it's too much information? WHY DO I LIKE TO DO THIS?

[Manly Man]

So... so the Mythic guide that I've been writing is pushing 80 pages long. I'm not even finished with Mythic Feats yet (I'm somewhere in the 'S's). I've still got Mythic spells and items to go...

Should... should I stop? Is there a point where it's too much information? WHY DO I LIKE TO DO THIS?

Because THAT IS YOUR PURPOSE, COCKROACH, TO FIND THE HOLY GRAI- I mean, TO WRITE A MYTHIC HANDBOOK.

[3WhiteFox3]

So... so the Mythic guide that I've been writing is pushing 80 pages long. I'm not even finished with Mythic Feats yet (I'm somewhere in the 'S's). I've still got Mythic spells and items to go...

Should... should I stop? Is there a point where it's too much information? WHY DO I LIKE TO DO THIS?

No! You're doing it so that I don't have too... :smallwink:

Seriously though, I was actually thinking about going through the material, but it just doesn't keep enough interest for me to actually do it.

EDIT:

Because THAT IS YOUR PURPOSE, COCKROACH, TO FIND THE HOLY GRAI- I mean, TO WRITE A MYTHIC HANDBOOK.


Sip my cup 'till it runneth over... Optimization Guide.

[137beth]

I've also seen people suggest using them in an E6/E8/E(X) game, and having the players gain mythic tiers instead of feats. Mythic abilities aren't really as overwhelming as high level abilities, so it may work out nicely...

[IronFist]

I've also seen people suggest using them in an E6/E8/E(X) game, and having the players gain mythic tiers instead of feats. Mythic abilities aren't really as overwhelming as high level abilities, so it may work out nicely...

That looks like a very good idea.

[Corlis]

Also, I'm still ticked that Impossible Speed is Champion only. My 3.5-import Factotum Trickster would have loved some of that.
It's worth pointing out that Tricksters effectively get to pick one ability from another path for free via their Path Dabbling ability, so if you want can grab that one pretty easily.

Path Dabbling (Su): Select one path ability from another mythic path. You must meet any other requirements that path ability has, including a minimum tier restriction.

[Hylas]

It's worth pointing out that Tricksters effectively get to pick one ability from another path for free via their Path Dabbling ability, so if you want can grab that one pretty easily. Also you can get the feat "Dual Path" and start picking path abilities from two different paths.


I've also seen people suggest using them in an E6/E8/E(X) game, and having the players gain mythic tiers instead of feats. Mythic abilities aren't really as overwhelming as high level abilities, so it may work out nicely... Yeah, if I ever ran mythic it would also be E6, which I think would put more emphasis on being extra special compared to E8.

[CockroachTeaParty]

Yeah, Dual Path (Trickster) pretty much opens up all abilities for everyone. The only difference between the paths is their 1st Tier unique powers, the bonus hp provided, and the Tier 10 capstones. Dual Path becomes something of a feat tax in this case, but the flexibility is almost too good to pass up.

[Psyren]

So... so the Mythic guide that I've been writing is pushing 80 pages long. I'm not even finished with Mythic Feats yet (I'm somewhere in the 'S's). I've still got Mythic spells and items to go...

Should... should I stop? Is there a point where it's too much information? WHY DO I LIKE TO DO THIS?

I for one am looking forward to it. Don't stop!

As a sidenote, my Occultist handbook is at 64 pages and counting...

[Epsilon Rose]

The general consensus seems to be that there is a lot of awesome stuff in the mythic rules, but that no one would ever really use the system as written.

Do you know what changes are normally suggested or what parts are considered problematic?

[Squirrel_Dude]

From what been said in this thread, and the few dev commentaries that I've read, it would appear that mythic tiers are a way to boost a character's power without continuing to level them up? Am I too off base in this claim? I want to say I know that PFS play doesn't go much, if at all, farther than 15th level.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

They are a non-level way of advancing power, similar to true levels, with perks like path abilities, bonus hit points, mythic feats (not sure if you can take them in place of normal feats), and ability increases. They work like levels, but instead of XP, you have to complete mythic trials, which are actual challenges you can set. Mythic goes basically by speed of plot.

[Unbalanced]

We introduce the mythic playtest to our 3.5 game and I hated it.
It was so OP and broken.

Now we're playing a PF game and we took on the mythic "template" (if you will) at level 5. The revised and published mythic book however is pretty cool.
Much more scaled and our party of 2 level 5 characters are taking on CR6+ enemies.

As far as I can tell its a way to add a little extra power and a little extra variation into a game. I wouldn't have any problems recommending it.

P.S. I took the Guardian path and it's provided some serious upgrades to my character.

Just to further my point:

Fast Healing (Ex)
As a swift action, you can expend one use of mythic power to gain fast healing 5 for 1 minute. This ability can be taken a second time at 3rd tier or higher and a third time at 6th tier or higher. Each additional time you take this ability, the fast healing increases by 5.


In a team of two with no healer this ability has increased the potency of my character tenfold!

[Psyren]

From what been said in this thread, and the few dev commentaries that I've read, it would appear that mythic tiers are a way to boost a character's power without continuing to level them up? Am I too off base in this claim? I want to say I know that PFS play doesn't go much, if at all, farther than 15th level.

Yes, and also you can add them to level 20 characters to create an "epic" system.

What I really would like to try though is E6 + Mythic.