Qin : The Warring States

[Cikomyr]

Hi there! I have been looking for a Wuxia-themed rpg for a while, and I discovered today the existence of Qin. Reading reviews over the internet seemed rather positive. The rule set appear relatively easy to pick up, the character-creation seems very thematic, and the setting is obviously pretty rich.

Any one of you tried it and can relate your experience?

[Terraoblivion]

I don't personally have experience with it, but from everything I've seen it operates at the low-powered end of wuxia. You won't get to parry the arrows from an entire army and such. That doesn't mean that it's bad or anything, just a point to keep in mind. It also has a pretty specific setting as far as I know.

Also, I know about a few other wuxia-themed rpgs if you end up finding that Qin doesn't provide what you're looking for. Legends of the Wulin is all around excellent and goes for a more magical form of kung-fu, as well as various narrative rules. The setting is very focused on the generalities of culture and theme, rather than the particulars of places and politics, which can be a strength or a weakness depending on taste. It can also pretty easily be changed for something radically different, I'm in a game set in a high school in modern Japan for example. There is also a wuxia-themed add-on for Fate that is currently being kickstarted known as Tianxia, which seems decent enough, even if there isn't much to say other than just wuxia Fate and that I've seen several hardcore wuxia fans drool over it.

[Cikomyr]

When you get to mid and then high levels, how "epic" is the eventual power levels? You say you are low-level Wuxia, but does it always stay the same?

[Terraoblivion]

I only have second hand knowledge, but as far as I can tell, you never really get to the army-smashing level or the one that requires truly extreme wirework. You're not going to do the stuff you see in Hong Kong comic books and even Hero is probably pushing it quite a bit if it's possible at all. However, I'd need the book and time to read it to say for certain.

In any case, checking some reviews of Qin on rpg.net might be the simplest solution here. That or picking up the free demokit (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/11926/Qin-The-Warring-States-free-demo-kit?it=1).

[Cikomyr]

Hum.. just learned there is an expansion named Qin : Legends, which is meant for very high-powered Wuxia experience. Basically the "Epic Level Wuxia" for the system, deeper combat systems for weapons, etc...

Some of the highest-level magic even allows you to petition the Celestial Bureaucracy to pass judgement on Outsiders. :smallbiggrin:

[Terraoblivion]

Ah, okay. I didn't know that. All I really know is what I said and that the demo didn't impress me much, but that was more a matter of taste and Chinese history nerdery.

[Knaight]

I actually quite like Qin, but I wouldn't use it for anything beyond the lower end of the wuxia spectrum even with Legends. Still, the history is reasonably well presented, and the game handles fairly well.

[Terraoblivion]

Yeah, it seems pretty low powered compared to most wuxia and otherwise seems like a perfectly solid, decent game. I just don't see anything that makes me want to play it. I already love Legends of the Wulin for wuxia and if I want low'ish-powered fantasy with deep, complex past and history I'm already a huge L5R fan and in a lot of ways Qin seems to fall between the two.

Also, I'll admit to being a bit irritated by how they represent the wu xing and cann the Shang dynasty the Yin dynasty after an alternate name for the very end of its existence. And kinda oversimplify what yin and yang are. Basically, it makes the Chinese history nerd in me vaguely irritated.

[Knaight]

I already love Legends of the Wulin for wuxia and if I want low'ish-powered fantasy with deep, complex past and history I'm already a huge L5R fan and in a lot of ways Qin seems to fall between the two.

I can't say that Legends of the Wulin ever really appealed to me all that much (though there is stuff in it I consider really cool), and ancient Japan and ancient China are different enough culturally that L5R really doesn't fill the same niche.

[Cikomyr]

Yeah, it seems pretty low powered compared to most wuxia and otherwise seems like a perfectly solid, decent game. I just don't see anything that makes me want to play it. I already love Legends of the Wulin for wuxia and if I want low'ish-powered fantasy with deep, complex past and history I'm already a huge L5R fan and in a lot of ways Qin seems to fall between the two.

Also, I'll admit to being a bit irritated by how they represent the wu xing and cann the Shang dynasty the Yin dynasty after an alternate name for the very end of its existence. And kinda oversimplify what yin and yang are. Basically, it makes the Chinese history nerd in me vaguely irritated.

Come on. They clearly stated, for L5R, that it wasn't a Japanese RPG, but the Westerner's view of what a Japanese RPG would be. Couldn't the same be applied for Qin? :-P

Btw, bought the book in French, since its the original language anyway (I always prefer to have original languages as most as possible). The rule system really sounds straightforward. We'll add cool-narrative superpowers and our own Tao/WeaponStyles/Magic as we feel like it.

Now, I need a special overall plot for a good campaign. Something with villainous allies, noble antagonists, down-and-true villains, innocent bystanders, etc...

I was thinking of setting the story mainly in the Kingdom of Han, since it seems to be the one "in the middle of things", if you know what I mean. It's the gateway to invade Qin, it's a potential backdoor threat to Wei, and is part of the Former Jin-alliance. Hence many potential players getting mingled in the story and tack on as my players' wishes (when GMing, keep all your options open to suit your player's preferences as you go). But I still need some sort of overarching plot..

Maybe the Zhou Long's remnants have managed to escape the grasp of Qin and is seeking refuge in Han clandestinely?

[Terraoblivion]

They seem to be trying for something actually Chinese, unlike L5R which has never attempted to have anything to do with actual Japan. Also, pretty much everything I really dislike about L5R stems from westerners projecting racist assumptions on Japan, so...

Also, I'm more of a Chinese history nerd than a Japanese history nerd anyway.

And Knaight, it wasn't cultural similarity that made me compare it to L5R. It's that it seems to have relatively similar mechanical goals in a lot of ways and that it combines mechanics and setting in a similar way. Qin just seems to do both in far less interesting ways. Also, I would never give a game a second look if all it had as a hook was a national culture, I can more easily read up on that myself and make a game of a generic system for it, and that's basically the problem with Qin to me. It comes off as a very generic game that tries to sell itself purely on being about China, while also appearing to completely ignore everything that makes the Warring States period different from later, more typical periods.