Leagues and Legends: Building Thresh, the Chain Warden

[tuesdayscoming]

Hello again, Playground!

I recently got back in to League of Legends, and fell in love with the champion Thresh. As his kit is pretty distinct, I thought it might be fun to build him in 3.5!

Thresh is a tanky, dark-themed character who fights at moderate range with a kusarigama. He seeks to soften-up his enemies before throwing himself directly into the fray, or before dragging enemies out of position and into the arms of his teammates. I'll talk about his in-game abilities below, and would really like some help fleshing out the character!

His Abilities
• Damnation: Collects souls of fallen enemies, which he stores in a lantern. Each soul increases both his offense and defense.
• Death Sentence: Throws out his kusarigama, hooking an enemy. Can then drag the enemy towards himself/and or drag himself towards the enemy.
• Dark Passage: Throws his lantern on the ground. Allies nearby it are shielded from damage. If an ally touches the lantern, they are teleported to Thresh's current position.
• Flay: Winds up his kusarigama, hitting all enemies within a short range, both in front of and behind Thresh. Enemies who are hit are "pushed" in the direction of the strike (so enemies hit behind Thresh are dragged towards him, and enemies in front of him are knocked away).
• The Box: Thresh creates a 'pentagon' of five walls around him. If an enemy passes through a wall, they take damage and their movement is slowed. After an enemy passes through, the individual wall is broken.

Build Ideas!
• Damnation could be simulated somewhat by either the Necrocarnate or Soul Eater prestige class. Necrocarnate is somewhat underpowered, sadly, but it does capture the feel of Thresh's passive quite nicely. Soul Eater is a nice option, but drains souls of still-living enemies, and does not benefit you much for collecting multiple souls. Kind of a toss-up here, as both have pros and cons.
• Death Sentence and Flay could largely be duplicated by the Setting Sun line of maneuvers from Tome of Battle. This school is available only to Swordsages.
• Dark Passage is somewhat difficult. He's not really a spellcaster, so I'd like to avoid explicit magic if possible. Still, need to find a method for both shielding allies and providing them with short(ish) range teleportation...
• The Box: Really not sure how to duplicate this one, unfortunately. Will likely have to come down to spellcasting...

So, does anyone have any other ideas that could refine this concept? How to fit it all together in one build?

As always, thanks, Playground!

[Just to Browse]

Make him ghost/steel with ally switch, king's shield, scary face, and parting shot.

Oh wait. Wrong homebrew.

Seriously though, thresh is tough. You can't quite use the setting sun maneuvers because they mostly require melee range and thresh's abilities are all ranged (including his attacks, so I actually recommend spiked chain as a weapon).

I'd honestly homebrew this one 'cause I don't have many ideas, but I'll be watching this thread.

[chronomatophobe]

I have a few ideas.

Dark Passage can, to a degree, be simulated by the Benign Transposition spell. Maybe stick a Shield Other on top of it.

The Box could be simulated to another degree by Fell Drained Freezing Fog comboing with the Extraordinary Spell Aim feat to exclude himself from the negative levels, and the slipping, and the not being able to move. Or he could just take it like a man and be undead so he doesn't have to worry about it. The Box is about not getting out alive, and the spell level is suitable of an ultimate ability (until Thresh gets miracle at level 17 huehue)

I also recommend you swap the Kusarigama for a harpoon. Death sentence is almost as easy as a ranged attack, though there's no great way to pull yourself in to meet your victim. More teleportation is probably the right answer.

Flay is probably the hardest thing to simulate. All I can really say because I'm AFB is good luck with that one. Dx Best that comes to mind is having the Greater Dislocator ability on your harpoon, but that's pretty limited in its scope of use.

I kinda recommend you use Profane Lifeleech feat to simulate his passive. It takes a turning attempt (and an action you're better off using on other things) but it'll be there if you need it.

In terms of chassis, I'd recommend Cleric for that reason. The issue then becomes gaining access to Benign Transposition and Freezing Fog. I'm not sure that any domains grant spells that specific. Talk to your DM or ignore it if this is for an NPC build. I just don't think ToB is the way to pursue it, thematically or mechanically. In my opinion (and I guess this is true of most fan builds anyway) you're better off being a full caster.

Anyway, there's my 2 cents. Hope I helped a little!

[A Tad Insane]

His lantern is probably a wondrous item, and he definitely needs an undead template. I also feel that flay would be more of a trip when translated into d&d, but that's just how I feel

[Kennisiou]

So some general stuff, not sure how to accomplish it, but...

He needs spiked chain proficiency.
Try to get him capable of wielding spiked chains one or two size categories up.

That should help with his "ranged" theming and also his weapon. You could also try using the Kusari Gama from Oriental Adventures, since it's more accurate to the weapon type he uses.

[Lyndworm]

Hello again, Playground!
I know little to nothing about League of Legends, having never played it, but I do know a little about D&D 3.5. Let's see what we can do, eh?


• Damnation: Collects souls of fallen enemies, which he stores in a lantern. Each soul increases both his offense and defense.
Having any kind of real control over souls in D&D is rare, but this bares a certain resemblance to the Cleric spell dconsumptive field (http://dndtools.eu/spells/libris-mortis-the-book-of-the-dead--71/consumptive-field--1472/) (and/or greater consumptive field (http://dndtools.eu/spells/libris-mortis-the-book-of-the-dead--71/consumptive-field-greater--1473/), both of which are basically death knell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deathKnell.htm) as an area effect). Mix in DMM (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-divine--56/divine-metamagic--660/): Persist (http://dndtools.eu/feats/complete-arcane--55/persistent-spell--2140/) to taste and you're set.


• Death Sentence: Throws out his kusarigama, hooking an enemy. Can then drag the enemy towards himself/and or drag himself towards the enemy.
Well, I can think of two ways to do this, but only kind of. It's tricky stuff.

First up, honorable mention to the harpoon (from Stormwrack, p107). It's an exotic thrown weapon (1d10|20/x2, 30ft range) that has a special ability allowing it to impale any creature to which it deals damage. An opposed Strength check allows the wielder to limit the impaled creature's movement so that it must stay within 30ft of the wielder, but you can theoretically pull the rope towards yourself. Ask your DM, because that's not 100% legal.

OK, on to the shenanigans... The Bloodstorm Blade prestige class (from the Tome of Battle, p100) allows you to treat attacks with thrown weapons as melee attacks. This is helpful primarily for Strength to attack rolls, initiating maneuvers, and the ever-popular Power Attack feat. However, it also allows you to trigger special attacks like the Improved Grab (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#improvedGrab) ability of the Spiritual Totem Bear Barbarian ACF (Complete Champion, p46). Basically, you can now throw a weapon at a creature at least one size category smaller than you and immediately pull them into your space and start a grapple, regardless of distance. The feat Scorpion's Grasp (http://dndtools.eu/feats/sandstorm--85/scorpions-grasp--2524/) lets you pull the same trick in reverse, moving into your enemy's space, but you have to attack with a light or one-handed weapon (a thrown weapon may or may not qualify; ask your DM).

You actually don't need Bloodstorm Blade, but it increases your effective reach greatly. It's perfectly viable to get expanded reach some other way and just use a spiked chain or kusari-gama (exotic light melee, 1d6|20/x2, Dungeon Master's Guide, p145) to double it and still threaten nearby squares. Large size is a good start; I recommend the half-ogre race (from Races of Destiny, p97) for a balance between playability and cheese. Otherwise, the spells enlarge person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/enlargePerson.htm) or righteous might (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/righteousMight.htm) are good buffs to have on hand (note that they don't stack with each other, and enlarge person doesn't effect non-humanoids like the half-ogre). Also, the psionic power expansion (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/expansion.htm) is worth mentioning, especially in connection with the half-giant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/halfGiant.htm) race.


• Dark Passage: Throws his lantern on the ground. Allies nearby it are shielded from damage. If an ally touches the lantern, they are teleported to Thresh's current position.
Hmm... I was reminded of the spell regroup (http://dndtools.eu/spells/players-handbook-ii--80/regroup--2934/), but that's not perfect. I'm at a loss, sorry.


• Flay: Winds up his kusarigama, hitting all enemies within a short range, both in front of and behind Thresh. Enemies who are hit are "pushed" in the direction of the strike (so enemies hit behind Thresh are dragged towards him, and enemies in front of him are knocked away).
I immediately thought of pairing Whirlwind Attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#whirlwindAttack) with Knock-Down (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown) and/or Knockback (http://dndtools.eu/feats/races-of-stone--82/knockback--1724/) (ask your DM if half-giants qualify for Knockback by virtue of their powerful build racial trait, ala goliaths). Again, it's not perfect, but it's all I've got right now.


• The Box: Thresh creates a 'pentagon' of five walls around him. If an enemy passes through a wall, they take damage and their movement is slowed. After an enemy passes through, the individual wall is broken.
I have no idea, really, but Chronomatophobe had a decent suggestion.



Hopefully you'll find something in my ramblings helpful. :smallbiggrin: