Is Tarquin stealing the show? What does this mean?

[MrBanana]

Tarquin has been getting a lot of exposure in this book - possibly more than Xykon ever did in one sitting (outside of SoD). I'd say the mixture of his meta-savvy senses and intelligence make him a far more interesting villain than Xykon (so far - he is most likely smarter than he seems).

Do you think he'll survive this encounter and continue to be a player in the Great Gate Game? Or has his time run out, and will he be killed in this juncture through Elan's secret plan?

I'd say that the last is more likely. It seems to be an appropriate time for an unusually prepared villain to finally lose, especially

[Harbinger]

Either he dies now, or the Order escapes and TT follows them, finally catching up with them at Kraagor's Gate... where Xykon proceeds to steamroll over all of them.

In all seriousness, Tarquin has been getting a lot of exposure because it's part of Elan's arc. This is Elan's -and by extension, Tarquin's,- book. Assuming he survives this book, I don't think he'll be getting half as much screen time.

[NerdyKris]

I really don't see Tarquin continuing in the story. I did before, but as this scene goes on, it's becoming more clear that his role in the story is completed. The Order is working together and playing to their strengths to take on a stronger enemy. They're using their class skills and complimenting eachother's abilities. And Elan is having a definite impact on the battle.

This is Tarquin's swan song. He wasn't the main villain, but he is forcing the Order to grow as a team to defeat him. Having him continue as an antagonist after this point seems like an unlikely direction.

[Mike Havran]

Do you think he'll survive this encounter and continue to be a player in the Great Gate Game? Or has his time run out, and will he be killed in this juncture through Elan's secret plan?

I'd say that the last is more likely. It seems to be an appropriate time for an unusually prepared villain to finally lose, especially
I hope he'll survive this book, but won't go to the Western Continent. He'll remain, waiting for the final confrontation with the (remaining) heroes.

Or he'll die today and if that's the case, the whole story will be wrapped up in the north. Which is fine as well, since at least half of his team will survive. :smallsmile:

[colanderman]

Tarquin can't die yet! We still need to find out what Laurin's favor is, and what Shoulder Pad Guy's name is.

[JessmanCA]

Tarquin = Darth Vader

He's gonna die.

Although maybe not yet. He might catch a wormhole out of there just in time. I think this scene is climactic enough for him to die in though. I mean a gate blew up, he killed his other son, and then there was a dinosaur chase scene through wormholes.

[Gift Jeraff]

I see him being like Miko: main villain of their debut book, then straggles on for the next book but with a diminished role (in terms of screentime, not necessarily impact as Miko demonstrated with Shojo and the Gate). They even both had a 2-panel cameo in Book 1!

[Reddish Mage]

I agree Tarquin is stealing the show. He is very appealing as a villain and he distracts us from the real main plot. That means he has to go, and fast.

I think the signs include his attempt at total derailment by killing PCs, and the fact he ignores the gates, and the fact that he is getting way too much screentime.

Basically he is too big for his role. He must die, so that the plot may live.

[Bulldog Psion]

Tarquin was a bit more impressive to begin with. He's rapidly degenerated from his calm, commanding "rational tyrant" act into an older version of Nale. As such, I'd say he is reaching the end of his rope, both in terms of plot and in terms of being at all interesting.

The dive from monumental overlord to petty, frantic jackass isn't a pretty one, but Tarquin made it.

[Jade_Tarem]

Also, it's in Tarquin's nature to actively try to steal the show. He's attempting it in-universe, and if he ever becomes meta enough to know about the comic strip, well, that's not going to make him change his ways.

[Evandar]

I've found Tarquin more interesting than Xykon as he was presented pre-Darth V. His speech on power and subsequent punishment of Redcloak made me begin to actually take him seriously.

Then I read SoD and they are both horrifying villains in their own unique ways.

I have to confess that Tarquin's genre-savyness was beginning to grind on my nerves just a tiny bit, but that's irrelevant.

But yeah, Xykon seems sooo much more terrifying after SoD.

[Zevox]

I'd say Tarquin is likely going to die here. Quite a bit recently we've seen attention drawn to his biggest mistake - thinking that he's the main villain of the story and Elan the main character. It's why he thought his army could easily kill Elan's friends, and why he's so confident going into battle with them now - he thinks that as long as he doesn't try to take Elan down, this won't be his big, climactic battle.

I suspect he's soon enough going to find out the hard way that he's merely the latest major side-villain, and that that means that the Order needs to resolve his sub-plot before moving on with their chase of the real main plotline and main villains, which he has mistaken for a sub-plot and side-villains.

[137beth]

My initial guess at this fight was that Miron would be knocked out, V would disintigrate him, and Laurin would say "okay, Tarquin, we're leaving now. You're coming with me or you walk out of the desert alone".

Obviously that didn't happen. There's really two ways it can go: either Tarquin will die here, or he won't.

If he does die here, I expect the order to destroy his body as quickly as possible if Laurin is still there. And that will be it.


If he doesn't die here, something will need to cause him to retreat. Likely, that would mean Laurin either dieing or leaving. If Tarquin ends up alone, though, he would be smart enough (probably) to realize that he couldn't keep anyone in the order dead without either destroying their body magically (which he may not be able to do without Laurin or Miron--I'm guessing he won't use my preferred method for body disposal in actual D&D which is to put it in a bag of holding and let it overflow/break, since that is much less known among non-D&D players), or killing all of them, which he doesn't want to do. At that point, he may just run. Possibly he has boots of teleportation or something, and could use those to get away, and walk the rest of the way home. In this scenario, I would expect him to survive part way through book 6, and die an anticlimactic death in the middle of the book, as a minor villain, rather than at the climax of a book in which he is the primary antagonist (book 5).

[Evandar]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind him getting his climactic battle because I'm in the audience, and it would be friggin' awesome to read.

[gerryq]

I really don't see Tarquin continuing in the story. I did before, but as this scene goes on, it's becoming more clear that his role in the story is completed. The Order is working together and playing to their strengths to take on a stronger enemy. They're using their class skills and complimenting eachother's abilities. And Elan is having a definite impact on the battle.

This is Tarquin's swan song. He wasn't the main villain, but he is forcing the Order to grow as a team to defeat him. Having him continue as an antagonist after this point seems like an unlikely direction.

Agreed.

There is still the loose ending of Haley's father on the run in Bleedingham, but it may be that things get tidied up with Tarquin dead, Miron and Laurin having no further quarrel with the Order and indeed agreeing as a favour to Tarquin's remaining son to get him off the wanted list and also get the Order ported to Kraagor's Gate. They would be hot on Xykon's heels, and out of their hair.... though the remainder of Tarquin's team may be willing to call time on the game at this point anyway).

Of course that's just one way it could go.

[gerryq]

Tarquin can't die yet! We still need to find out what Laurin's favor is, and what Shoulder Pad Guy's name is.

If Laurin lives, we may find out the former. As for the other, he may well remain as Mr. Shoulder P. Guy...

[Trillium]

Tarquin can't die yet! We still need to find out what Laurin's favor is, and what Shoulder Pad Guy's name is.

He's a barbarian, so his name is actually Shoulderpad Guy. Primitive barbarians are primitive.

[dps]

In all seriousness, Tarquin has been getting a lot of exposure because it's part of Elan's arc. This is Elan's -and by extension, Tarquin's,- book. Assuming he survives this book, I don't think he'll be getting half as much screen time.

Yeah, that pretty well sums up my view.

I'd guess that next book is mostly Durkon's arc. Tarquin probably doesn't really have any role to play in that, so he'll either be dead, or mostly off-screen.

[b_jonas]

There is still the loose ending of Haley's father on the run in Bleedingham, but it may be that things get tidied up with Tarquin dead, Miron and Laurin having no further quarrel with the Order

Possible for Laurin, but no way for Miron. Tarquin called in his favor, Miron accepted the terms. Tarquin's death wouldn't cancel that, because Tarquin had already payed his part. Miron would still need to have a quarrel with Roy and his friends. If the Order is overpowering him, he might leave, but he will have to act on his promise later.

[ChristianSt]

I think this whole Tarquin-business will be resolved soon (probably in this book). I can't imagine that:
Tarquin stops to try to promote Elan to party leader
Elan wants to be party leader (He just doesn't want it and Roy is clearly the leader in his eyes)

How this gets resolved I don't know, imo the most likely outcome is Tarquin's death.
In his current "out-of-control"-state, I can't imagine he will stop this try until either he has succeeded or has failed.
But there is the wild card in form of Elan's plan, which might shake things up a bit (it is possible he does find a way to thwart Tarquin without killing him).

[Trillium]

Possible for Laurin, but no way for Miron. Tarquin called in his favor, Miron accepted the terms. Tarquin's death wouldn't cancel that, because Tarquin had already payed his part. Miron would still need to have a quarrel with Roy and his friends. If the Order is overpowering him, he might leave, but he will have to act on his promise later.

What? He cares only for clearing that favor off books. Tarquin dead = favor cleared. There will be no one to call on it, ever.

[Xelbiuj]

Possible for Laurin, but no way for Miron. Tarquin called in his favor, Miron accepted the terms. Tarquin's death wouldn't cancel that, because Tarquin had already payed his part. Miron would still need to have a quarrel with Roy and his friends. If the Order is overpowering him, he might leave, but he will have to act on his promise later.

You're assuming a level of lawfulness that Miron hasn't demonstrated yet.

[hagnat]

I think Laurin is going to put an end to this madness in this re-round.
She has seen that Tarquin really care only for himself, since he rushed for the Order and scolded Miron for leaving, even though he was badly wounded.
Tarquin has already caused the death of Malack and, if they are not careful, he will cause the death of them.

[Gift Jeraff]

Tarquin can't die yet! We still need to find out what Laurin's favor is, and what Shoulder Pad Guy's name is.

We can find out his name from his tombstone.

[Nimin]

Possible for Laurin, but no way for Miron. Tarquin called in his favor, Miron accepted the terms. Tarquin's death wouldn't cancel that, because Tarquin had already payed his part. Miron would still need to have a quarrel with Roy and his friends. If the Order is overpowering him, he might leave, but he will have to act on his promise later.

No, he won't. The "favour" Tarquin asked him was for Miron to back him up in the battle with the Order, which he did. Just because the battle didn't pay off the way they expected it doesn't mean that Miron didn't clear it off the book.

[Chessgeek]

The way Tarquin has degenerated lately, I'd be rather surprised to see him survival this book's finale. Unless Elan and Tarquin have a good ol' son-father please-stop trying-to-kill-my-friends talk and somehow convinces Tarquin that he doesn't need to kill off Roy and others and instead he just fades into the background, there is basically no other resolution. Tarquin could easily outrace the order if he needed to, and with his full team could pretty easily curb stomp them.

Unless Tarquin succeeds, of course. Although I do not think this would be well received by anyone who actually enjoys the comic.

[erikun]

I doubt that Tarquin will die, but I don't see him being relevant in the strip for much longer. Once the Order leaves and chases after Xykon, Tarquin will likely resume his "Evil Overlord Awaiting The Final Battle" position he assumes he is in. Why do I think this?

Because it makes it that much sweeter when he turns out to be wrong.

I mean, I rather suspect that something important will happen if all the gates are destroyed. This doesn't seem like it would be fatal to people who crossed over, but it would likely cause problems for everything else - like buildings, landmasses, and kingdoms. I'd suspect that Tarquin would just be placed benignly in this new world... and have nothing to show for it. No kingdom, no memorial, no group of slaves to build anything up - just a grouchy old man who's upset that things didn't go his way.

Or if the Order does preserve the last gate, then it wouldn't be the epic showdown of Tarquin vs Elan on a clifftop. It would be every good-aligned kingdom stopping by and forcing a total surrender from the Kingdom of Blood (or whatever it's called). Because that's how epic Bards fight battles. And also because it's Elan fighting a battle on Elan's terms and winning on Elan's terms, not on Tarquin's. I think that would be a nice way for Elan to show up his father, and get things done on his own merits.

[Orm-Embar]

Yeah, that pretty well sums up my view.

I'd guess that next book is mostly Durkon's arc. Tarquin probably doesn't really have any role to play in that, so he'll either be dead, or mostly off-screen.

Yes, this. I keep thinking Durkon is going to step up and take over the battle, but right now it's really Elan's turn to be center stage and hopefully overcome some family issues. Too bad his mom is off screen for this.

Tarquin needs to be neutralized or converted to an ally somehow, so the Order can get back to saving the world. But how? I wonder if Tarquin has a big death scene coming, complete with expository speech and reconciliation with Elan, in keeping with all the SW themes so far. Or if that will be yet another expectation subverted in the best way. :smallbiggrin:

[Lombard]

I take the unrevealed Laurin's favor and, to a lesser extent, the fact that Miron got away, as signs that Tarquin lives through this

On the othet hand that enraged look from a strip or two ago fits the classic trope of a baddy who is about to make some critical mistake and probably bite it.

[halfeye]

I suspect that Team Tarquin have tried to research Xykon, failed to get through Cloister, then found Xyklon, and Xyklon is a lesser villain than them, so they think that's the story, not knowing about Xykon or Redcloak. I think once they find out about the existence of Xykon, who may not have cast Cloister yet in his new location (but can be described even if he has), it will all change.

[Giggling Ghast]

He's been a pretty decent Arc Villain (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArcVillain), but his role is swiftly going to come to an end.

[Fish]

Tarquin is stealing the show, or trying; I do not give him healthy long-term prospects as a villain. And "stealing the show" is a bang-on description of Tarquin's motivation. One might also say "upstaging" or "stealing the spotlight." He's taking a piece of work that isn't about him, and trying to make it so.

That's why I don't give him long as a villain. His enemy isn't the Order. Tarquin's enemy is the narrative causality of the universe. He can't win. His delusion will never be true, no matter whom he kills or threatens. When he finds out that he is the sub-boss, that'll be his Sunday-come-to-meetin' moment* and we find out whether he can accept it.

I can see the possibility that Tarquin survives, humbled and defeated, to attempt to help the Order, but it's not looking good for that.

We know Sabine is furious at Tarquin for killing Nale. If Tarquin dies here, Sabine probably won't get a chance for her revenge. So, perhaps Tarquin lives on, to die later at her hands.

It would be perfect, and convenient: a defeated Tarquin still wants Elan to save the world, and would lend him anything to achieve it. Sabine would be there for her revenge, killing Tarquin; that would prevent the Order from getting any help.

*The moment of fervent divine revelation suggested by revivalist preachers and boisterous church settings.

[AstralFire]

It'll be so weird for Elan to no longer have an antagonist specifically motivated by him. But it'd make sense because we're also at the point where the big bads are starting to take notice of the party.

[Gift Jeraff]

Tarquin is stealing the show, or trying; I do not give him healthy long-term prospects as a villain. And "stealing the show" is a bang-on description of Tarquin's motivation. One might also say "upstaging" or "stealing the spotlight." He's taking a piece of work that isn't about him, and trying to make it so.

That's why I don't give him long as a villain. His enemy isn't the Order. Tarquin's enemy is the narrative causality of the universe. He can't win. His delusion will never be true, no matter whom he kills or threatens. When he finds out that he is the sub-boss, that'll be his Sunday-come-to-meetin' moment* and we find out whether he can accept it.

I can see the possibility that Tarquin survives, humbled and defeated, to attempt to help the Order, but it's not looking good for that.

We know Sabine is furious at Tarquin for killing Nale. If Tarquin dies here, Sabine probably won't get a chance for her revenge. So, perhaps Tarquin lives on, to die later at her hands.

It would be perfect, and convenient: a defeated Tarquin still wants Elan to save the world, and would lend him anything to achieve it. Sabine would be there for her revenge, killing Tarquin; that would prevent the Order from getting any help.

*The moment of fervent divine revelation suggested by revivalist preachers and boisterous church settings.

Maybe Sabine will kill Tarquin off-screen, and then the audience learns about it when she brags about it to Elan.

:sabine: I killed your father, Elan!
:elan: Cool, one less thing for us to worry about. Thanks!

Personally, I'm hoping she destroyed the TV after Tarquin implied Sabine didn't care about Nale, that way she heard the touching things Elan had to say and not want to antagonize him anymore. At least not on a personal level.

[AstralFire]

Maybe Sabine will kill Tarquin off-screen, and then the audience learns about it when she brags about it to Elan.

:sabine: I killed your father, Elan!
:elan: Cool, one less thing for us to worry about. Thanks!

Personally, I'm hoping she destroyed the TV after Tarquin implied Sabine didn't care about Nale, that way she heard the touching things Elan had to say and not want to antagonize him anymore. At least not on a personal level.

Sabine getting some genuine development would be great.

[bguy]

I take the unrevealed Laurin's favor and, to a lesser extent, the fact that Miron got away, as signs that Tarquin lives through this.

Other factors for Tarquin surviving this book:
1) There are at least 2 other members of TT still at large (I can't really imagine the series wrapping with Tarquin's allies still controlling a large part of the Western Continent, so all of TT is going to have to be dealt with at some point);
2) We've got the Ian Starshine plot to resolve which means we probably aren't done with the Western Continent yet;
3) We've got Sabine wanting revenge on Tarquin to resolve;
4) We've got Amun-Zora wanting revenge on Tarquin to resolve;
5) I doubt Elan's mystery plan involves killing his dad;
6) The Giant has said there are at least 2 more books after this one, so he's probably going to need more villains that just Xykon, Redcloak and the IFCC to fill that much story, and its getting a little late in the game to be introducing new villains.


On the othet hand that enraged look from a strip or two ago fits the classic trope of a baddy who is about to make some critical mistake and probably bite it.

My guess is that Laurin will soon realize this is a losing battle what with Miron being gone, Tarquin being almost wholly ineffective, and her starting to run low on Power Points (as well as now being the Order's number one target), so she'll soon force Tarquin to retreat with her. Once Tarquin is back in Bleedingham and has a chance to calm down, he'll probably come to the conclusion that the fact that he wasn't able to beat the Order shows that he is not currently the Big Bad of the story afterall. Being Tarquin he will of course insist on remedying that, and he'll decide that the best way to do so is by jumping into the Gate quest and taking out Xykon. He then just has to convince the rest of TT to accompany him, and we have a 3 way battle for the final Gate.

[Clistenes]

Maybe Sabine will kill Tarquin off-screen, and then the audience learns about it when she brags about it to Elan.

:sabine: I killed your father, Elan!
:elan: Cool, one less thing for us to worry about. Thanks!

Personally, I'm hoping she destroyed the TV after Tarquin implied Sabine didn't care about Nale, that way she heard the touching things Elan had to say and not want to antagonize him anymore. At least not on a personal level.

:sabine: I killed your father, Elan!
:elan: Cool, one less thing for us to worry about. Thanks!
:sabine: If you are so grateful, pay me with sexytimes.
:elan: eer...
:haley: NO!
:ian starshine: Come on, pumpkin, we owe her big time! Let her have him just a little...:smallwink:
:haley: You just want her to drain all of his lifeforce and kill him!
:ian starshine: No daughter of mine will marry a son of Taquin! :smallfurious:

[mimhoff]

What if he pulls it off though? What if it was the Giant's plan all along to lead us along with the Xykon plot for years, and then introduce a new character who declares "this story is now about ME!"?

[Clistenes]

What if he pulls it off though? What if it was the Giant's plan all along to lead us along with the Xykon plot for years, and then introduce a new character who declares "this story is now about ME!"?

Nah. Not with Redcloak's and Xykon's awesome backstory...that CAN'T be pushed aside. It Tarquin knew about Redcloak's and Xykon's backstory, he would fall on his knees weeping and acknowledge that he's just a secondary villain.

[Boogastreehouse]

I think it looks nice with a little space

I think Tarquin has to be a scene-stealer. Any villain who shows up late in the story has to make a big impact so the audience will take them seriously and not just complain that they want the story to get back to the main villain.



Maybe Sabine will kill Tarquin off-screen, and then the audience learns about it when she brags about it to Elan.

:sabine: I killed your father, Elan!
:elan: Cool, one less thing for us to worry about. Thanks!

Personally, I'm hoping she destroyed the TV after Tarquin implied Sabine didn't care about Nale, that way she heard the touching things Elan had to say and not want to antagonize him anymore. At least not on a personal level.

Sabine getting some genuine development would be great.

Sabine is a really interesting character, despite Haley's efforts to dismiss her as being merely a one-dimensional skank.

I can't wait for her to try and bring Nale back from Hell by hiding him in the skin of his still-living brother, Elan. (yes, yes. I know. It's the plot from Hellraiser. Sue me.)

I think it looks nice with a little space

[Bulldog Psion]

What if he pulls it off though? What if it was the Giant's plan all along to lead us along with the Xykon plot for years, and then introduce a new character who declares "this story is now about ME!"?

Redcloak's got too big of thing going with the fate of the whole goblin race. Tarquin is just about Tarquin. The sheer differences in scale indicate that Elan's dad is not going to supplant the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle as one of the main villains. And Xykon has enough cold, violent malice to make Tarquin look like an older Nale-wannabe, IMO. I never get tired of quoting the Oracle, especially since reading SoD -- "dude is frickin' scary."

[rodneyAnonymous]

:sabine: I killed your father, Elan!
:elan: Cool, one less thing for us to worry about. Thanks!

I don't think Elan wants Tarquin dead, and would be upset about it.

[KillianHawkeye]

I don't think Elan wants Tarquin dead, and would be upset about it.

Yeah, if he didn't want Nale dead after everything they've been through, there's no way he'd be okay with somebody killing Tarquin.

[Bulldog Psion]

Yeah, if he didn't want Nale dead after everything they've been through, there's no way he'd be okay with somebody killing Tarquin.

He'd definitely be upset, but the rest of the Order would be cheering.