So I just realized something about the Sylvan language....

[Randomocity132]

Apparently it doesn't allow you to speak to animals, and instead there's a spell that does that. Who knew?

Certainly not anyone I've ever played D&D with.

It seems like we've been unknowingly house-ruling that Sylvan = animals as well. It's certainly nice for flavor on a druid, and not game-breaking by any means, but I was surprised to find this out.

Anyone else houserule that druids can speak to animals?

[Jlerpy]

Only for comedic effect.

[nedz]

I've seen it ruled that it allowed you to speak with vegetables :smallbiggrin:

And yes, the DM was being a bit silly.

[ArcturusV]

Nah, but there's been times I've kitbashed and had people with SLAs of Speak with Animals have it at will instead of the usual "one minute per day" that it ends up being. Like Bamboo Spirit Folk.

[Darrin]

Sylvan is for talking to fey. Some fey don't even speak Common.

When we first started playing 3.x, I thought Wild Empathy was for talking to animals. Maybe it was just our group, but it just never did anything useful.

[TuggyNE]

Centaurs and Sirrushes speak Sylvan, but not Common. (Centaurs also speak Elven, and Sirrushes also speak Draconic, so it's probably not that big a deal, but hey.)


When we first started playing 3.x, I thought Wild Empathy was for talking to animals. Maybe it was just our group, but it just never did anything useful.

Nah, as far as I know it really is kind of a lame feature. Unless you go to great lengths to gather an animal army, anyway, but how would you even optimize that check?

[KillianHawkeye]

I have never heard of Sylvan being used to talk to animals, mostly because animals are not listed as speaking that (or any other) language.

[Red Fel]

I've never played in a game where Druids spoke to animals by default.

But I agree with Jlerpy, being able to do so can create a certain "Disney Princess" effect, which could be comedy gold in the right circumstances.
And in before someone mentions the fox.

[Chronos]

On the other hand, forest gnomes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnome.htm#forestGnome) can learn "a simple language that enables them to communicate on a very basic level with forest animals (this replaces the rock gnome’s speak with animals ability)".

[Crake]

I remember initially reading somewhere in the druid bonus language entry that sylvan was "The language of the woodland creatures" or something, which is where I initially got the same mis-assumption, but I soon found out that Sylvan was for fey creatures, not animals.

[TuggyNE]

On the other hand, forest gnomes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gnome.htm#forestGnome) can learn "a simple language that enables them to communicate on a very basic level with forest animals (this replaces the rock gnome’s speak with animals ability)".

Well, yes, but this is notably listed separately from their ability to speak Sylvan. :smalltongue:

[Diovid]

Nah, as far as I know it really is kind of a lame feature. Unless you go to great lengths to gather an animal army, anyway, but how would you even optimize that check?
Optimizing is probably not possible but you could have a look at this handbook: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302815

[hymer]

Nah, as far as I know [Wild Empathy] really is kind of a lame feature. Unless you go to great lengths to gather an animal army, anyway, but how would you even optimize that check?

It does mean that druids and rangers after a while can confidently go about natural areas without needing to run from or kill every bear, tiger and shark they come across. Which sort of fits their shtick, I'd say. :smallsmile:

[PersonMan]

It does mean that druids and rangers after a while can confidently go about natural areas without needing to run from or kill every bear, tiger and shark they come across. Which sort of fits their shtick, I'd say. :smallsmile:

They can already do that, though. Wild Empathy + don't be threatening = no problem.

EDIT: Also, if your DM is playing wild animals properly, then they'll probably avoid attacking in 90% of situations and even then the Druid/Ranger will know what's up ("With my 10 ranks in Knowledge (Nature) I realize that I'm getting close to this bar's cubs and will go around to avoid provoking it"). Plus, even if they attack, a single swing at them will probably tell them that the weird thing with tough armor is painful and they should run, which they will.

'Cause they're animals and not kill-machines that fight to the death.

[ArcturusV]

Ssssh. That sort of insanity will remind people of the days of Morale Checks! Everyone knows everyone fights to the death over any slight, real or imagined! :smallbiggrin:

[Chronos]

Quoth PersonMan:

They can already do that, though. Wild Empathy + don't be threatening = no problem.
So you're saying that even if they didn't have Wild Empathy, they'd still at least have Wild Empathy?

(aside: New avatar?)

[SassyQuatch]

Ssssh. That sort of insanity will remind people of the days of Morale Checks! Everyone knows everyone fights to the death over any slight, real or imagined! :smallbiggrin:
New rules make it so much easier. If they run away it's a trap.

[Pluto!]

I read the OP just thinking "no, of course I've never heard of anyone playing like this." But that's probably because even the Speak With Animal spells rarely work in my group, since it's kind of become a running theme that even if animals or plants can talk, they don't ever have anything interesting to say.

It's been more than a little bit frustrating at times. The two examples I can think of session where the party bard stole an EvilBadGuy's pet cat to interrogate, only to be entirely ignored and left doubtful whether the cat even knew who the EvilBadGuy was, and where the party questioned a fern regarding foot traffic along a nearby trail only to be kindly informed that ferns don't have the sensory organs to recognize that sort of thing.

[PersonMan]

So you're saying that even if they didn't have Wild Empathy, they'd still at least have Wild Empathy?

...No? I don't see how you're getting this from what I said.


(aside: New avatar?)

The same one I've had since I registered. You sure you're not confusing me with someone else? *See below*

[Clistenes]

Centaurs and Sirrushes speak Sylvan, but not Common. (Centaurs also speak Elven, and Sirrushes also speak Draconic, so it's probably not that big a deal, but hey.)

Nah, as far as I know it really is kind of a lame feature. Unless you go to great lengths to gather an animal army, anyway, but how would you even optimize that check?

Wild Empathy can help you make the Warbeast Direworlf mount of the orc chieftain you just killed into YOUR mount.

Or to make the warbeast riding dogs you just bought loyal and obedient to you (yes, I know many people would say that Handle Animal is enough, but I think Wild Empathy is faster; if you use Handle Animal you will have to spend a lot of time making the beasts slowly coming to trust you).

[Jlerpy]

I read the OP just thinking "no, of course I've never heard of anyone playing like this." But that's probably because even the Speak With Animal spells rarely work in my group, since it's kind of become a running theme that even if animals or plants can talk, they don't ever have anything interesting to say.

It's been more than a little bit frustrating at times. The two examples I can think of session where the party bard stole an EvilBadGuy's pet cat to interrogate, only to be entirely ignored and left doubtful whether the cat even knew who the EvilBadGuy was, and where the party questioned a fern regarding foot traffic along a nearby trail only to be kindly informed that ferns don't have the sensory organs to recognize that sort of thing.

Which is fine, as long as we play it for laughs and don't pretend they're worthy 1st or 3rd level spells.

[hymer]

...No? I don't see how you're getting this from what I said.

Let me try to explain:

Tuggy said something to the effect of "Wild Empathy is kinda lame."

I replied something to the effect of "Wild Empathy at least fits rangers and druids, they can go about natural environments with it."

You replied to me with something to the effect of "Well, even without it, they still have Wild Empathy to do that."

Chronos then nudged you, asking something to the effect of "You sure you mean that?" because what you said seems to indicate exactly what he said: Without Wild Empathy, rangers and druids would at least still have Wild Empathy.

Hope that clears something up. :smallsmile:

[Gnaeus]

and where the party questioned a fern regarding foot traffic along a nearby trail only to be kindly informed that ferns don't have the sensory organs to recognize that sort of thing.

Indeed. My sorcerer just picked up Speak with Plants from his bloodline, and i am having a really hard time finding any plants that combine:
1. Have intelligence and sensory organs to have something to say
2. Are not predators that just attack whatever comes nearby and
3. Do not already speak common or sylvan.

[Spuddles]

They can already do that, though. Wild Empathy + don't be threatening = no problem.

EDIT: Also, if your DM is playing wild animals properly, then they'll probably avoid attacking in 90% of situations and even then the Druid/Ranger will know what's up ("With my 10 ranks in Knowledge (Nature) I realize that I'm getting close to this bar's cubs and will go around to avoid provoking it"). Plus, even if they attack, a single swing at them will probably tell them that the weird thing with tough armor is painful and they should run, which they will.

'Cause they're animals and not kill-machines that fight to the death.

Unless they're hungry, like the wolves of paris, led by packlord Courtard.

[Ruethgar]

Forest Gnomes(as mentioned before) can speak with animals, Tibbits can speak with cats, and their is a human race that can speak with snakes in Champions fo Ruin I think, but Sylvan has never equated to animal in my games. Occasionally, anatomy permitting, I would allow a character to take an animal language as a normal language(such as an anthropomorphic dog learning canine).