PDA

View Full Version : Creating a Fantasy World



Clover
2007-01-08, 03:34 PM
Hey all,

I've begun work on a Fantasy World of my own for any and all purposes I may need; Stories, D&D, Comics and whatever else...

I just need advice on what would be best and also suggestions for what could be used... cheers :smallsmile:

So far I've decided that their will be 12 Main Kingdoms, 1 for each of the main races; Human, Elf, Drow, Dwarf, Orc, Goblin, Halfling, Troll, Ogre, Gnome, Kobold, Hobgoblin

I'm also working on a parallel world known as the Kingdom of Fae to go along side it, which should be treated as just another part of the world even though it is seperate from it, with all magic shiny mushrooms and enchanted forests and stuff... just classic fairy tale stuff there...

Once I've sorted out whats where Im going to create a map, hopefully with colour or something (any tips on that, specifically a Tolkein style way to make em)

Each Kingdom has its own religion (except Gnome) and some share religions with neighbouring Kingdoms...

Kobolds and Hobgoblins are pure evil and Orcs aren't Good, otherwise everything is open...

This world also has Magic and Undead and everything Fantasy... just imagine everything fantasy ever and it'll more than likely be there (except really obvious stuff)...

But how do I make this beleivable? I also need tips on how to make this world beleivable (even if it is unbeleivable)

I also have an official religion (what actually happened) in the works but am unsure whether to post due to forum rules... cheers :smile:

Premier
2007-01-08, 03:58 PM
Hi there,

worldbuilding is a great thing, but it's such a vast topic that no one can just point to an exhaustive how-to FAQ. With that in mind, let me offer just a few specific pointers:

First of all, decide what's going to make your world interesting to the reader/player. Making the world believable is important, but making it interesting is even more important. And no offense, but based on what little has been said so far, I don't see anything interesting in this world. It's got the same races as every other staple fantasy world, it has racial pantheons as every other staple fantasy world, it has a Faerie like many other staple fantasy worlds, and it's got magic and undead that's assumably identical to every other staple D&D fantasy world.

Before you proceed any further, come up with an idea for making it interesting. Perhaps your take on the races is very different from the standard. Perhaps magic works completely differently. Perhaps the cultures are very unique and exciting. Perhaps the world has a different 'feel' to it, like Planescape, Eberron, Spelljammer, or Dark Sun. Whatever.

Only start worrying about 'believability' after you've figured out your selling line. As for the specifics of making the world credible, I suggest you check out some of the many "world building checklists" available on the Internet, those will be a good place to start.

Clover
2007-01-08, 04:12 PM
Thanks... dont suppose you have any good links for such a checklist? I'm kind of unable to find anything suitable... it all seems like gibberish for some reason, cheers :smile:

As for what makes it special, while yes my main races are pretty standard there are going to be hundreds of sub-races (most will be unnames as hundreds is a lot) which move between the kingdoms as do the main races themselves... its more that the Kingdom's are where the races originate from is all...

Another thing is how the Universe came to exist... seeing as how its to do with religion I'm not sure wether I should post it or not... any idea on what counts as posting religion and stuff (its a fake religion and I'm not promoting it in any was a a cult or anything)?

cheers again :smile:

EDIT: Also want to point out that Magic comes from life force (not in the sense of the Force like Star Wars or anything... it actually makes you physically weaker when you use it and will increase your aging, but only a little... it can also be channeled through other beings, causing little or no harm to the caster... familiars and expendable creatures are good for this...

amanodel
2007-01-08, 04:29 PM
Check the giant's articles under the gaming section right here (http://www.giantitp.com/Gaming.html). There are some useful stuff.


Is it going to be a setting for the d&d ruleset, or you are goint to make up your own?

For your second idea: If you're going d&d, then you might consider spellcasting variants or psionics. You can find alternate rulesets here (http://www.d20srd.org/). There was a thread were someone mentioned a homebrewed spellcasting wariant which drained HP (it was using the WP/VP system).

Clover
2007-01-08, 04:33 PM
Thanks... I did think about checking that out, but it just seemed a bit confusing when I first saw it... might take another look though...

Yeah... It'll be for the standard D&D, however I'm a bit behind on times so all I've got are the slightly older D&D books (They're quite old) which I got from my Dad...

As above I have older books which don't really setail what Psionics are, cheers for all the help so far guys :smile:

amanodel
2007-01-08, 06:39 PM
www.d20srd.org has everything you need rules-wise, including psionics an variants.

Basically, as I see it psionics are a more jedi-like way of spellcasting.

Clover
2007-01-09, 01:57 PM
I think I've seen that site before... cheers :smile:

hmm... so far they're not really seming my sort of thing...

I'm working on a map at the moment... but its not going how I originally wanted it...

Matthew
2007-01-10, 01:59 PM
Try this link:

http://www.sfwa.org/writing/worldbuilding1.htm

Triaxx
2007-01-10, 09:31 PM
You might also try the articles on this site under gaming, about creating a world.

Clover
2007-01-11, 12:09 PM
Try this link:

http://www.sfwa.org/writing/worldbuilding1.htm

Thanks :smile: I must have been there before cos half the links are purpleised... should be helpful though :smile:

Lord Iames Osari
2007-01-11, 12:26 PM
You're allowed to talk about in-game religions. It's just RL religions that are prohibited.

Yakk
2007-01-11, 12:46 PM
Do it one step at a time. Having 100s planned of subraces is one thing -- writing them all so they are interesting and balanced is another.

Start with an isolated part of a larger world. Leave the larger world to sketches of detail. Write up your chunk of the world, your local subraces, and then go from there.

Clover
2007-01-11, 01:05 PM
okay thanks... I'll start with one of the other kingdoms then... I don't want to do the more interesting ones first as I'll lose interest when it comes to the others... maybe I'll do Humans, they're kinda bland... silly humans... I'll make 'em special...

As for the religion (thanks for clearing that up Iames) it basically involves Gods 'and' the Big Bang... its a work in progress so please dont be too picky about the odds and ends...



Before the beginning there was an everlasting colourless plane of nothingness known as the Infinite. The Infinite was the home of two beings made of pure energy, one of negative and one of positive. The negative being took the form of a dark, strong male humanoid whilst the positive took the form of a beautiful and alluring female humanoid. After many centuries, millenniums or perhaps even eons, the two developed a way to use their energy in the form of emotion, and they fell in love.

But it would not last, as they held each other in the Infinite there negativity and passivity fled away from them, and soon only neutral energy was left, but as it twisted in the Infinite, a place of pure impossibility its own logic destroyed it, sending it to an empty plane of space before it errupted outwards in all and every direction creating the stars and the planets, the moons and the suns, the galaxies and the universe itself. It created life and death, fear and joy, love and hate.

Whether by coincidence or intent, this plane was not large enough for the energy to fully create all it could, and the remaining energy formed into beings of pure energy, though not as powerful as the Negative and the Positive they became godly beings of all kinds.


Short and (hopefully) sweet... any comments?

P.S. Only the Elves (cliche :biggrin:) know that this actually happened... the Gnomes know of the Big Bang and believe only in science... thats why their unreligious...

Matthew
2007-01-11, 01:08 PM
Thanks :smile: I must have been there before cos half the links are purpleised... should be helpful though :smile:

Glad to be of service. I am pretty sure I was directed to that site via this Forum... might have been Role Playing Tips (http://www.roleplayingtips.com/index.php/), though, which is also a great resource for world building and role playing in general.

Clover
2007-01-11, 01:23 PM
Glad to be of service. I am pretty sure I was directed to that site via this Forum... might have been Role Playing Tips (http://www.roleplayingtips.com/index.php/), though, which is also a great resource for world building and role playing in general.

thanks :smile: hmm... I know what a DM is... whats a GM?

Matthew
2007-01-11, 01:26 PM
Games Master, same as Dungeon Master except more generalised (i.e. not just referring to D&D)

Clover
2007-01-11, 01:28 PM
hmm... how did I not get that... im losing my bran... ness... aah!! thanks :smile:

Morty
2007-01-11, 02:00 PM
Kobolds and Hobgoblins are pure evil and Orcs aren't Good, otherwise everything is open...
If I were you, I wouldn't define whole intelligent race as 'good' or 'evil'. That makes the world less flexible.
Anyway, seems interesting so far. Have you got any specific ideas what races look like?

Clover
2007-01-11, 03:06 PM
If I were you, I wouldn't define whole intelligent race as 'good' or 'evil'. That makes the world less flexible.

But... there's a reason why they evil... they live on the border of The Dark Lands (original I know :smallwink:) which is the home of Evil (yeah... originalty at its best), like where it exudes from and stuff... so thats why their evil... they've lived there for years and its dug intself deep into their blood and genes and wont leave without a fight...


Anyway, seems interesting so far. Have you got any specific ideas what races look like?

Humans look like humans...

Elves are gonna be like humans, but naturally taller and with cat-like ears and eyes as well as reflexes...

Drow are the same as Elves but with sort of grey skin (not too dark though, just not light grey)

Kobolds are only about a foot tall and covered in thick ochre yellow scales...

Goblins are varying shades of yellow and very human-like in appearance apart from a very low hunch and large hands and feet...

Orcs - Just think Elves but with built in super-muscles and dark blue skin... also very flared nostrils and sharp fangs...

Hobgoblins are darker skinned goblins... the older they get, the darker their skin...

Dwarves are your average short-bearded-men but are immortal, and as they age their skin becomes tougher and more like rock until they eventually become frozen in statue-like forms (very sad)

Halflings are gonna be like Tolkein's Hobbits (yeah, same thing I know) but also have a military force as well... and are much shorter as well (about 1 and a half feet)

Gnomes are on average about 4 feet tall and exude oil from their pores at an alarming rate... they also delve deeply into scientific study... they use magic but do not have religion (therefore no Clerics)

Ogres are huge (like 12 foot huge) greyish brown man-like creatures that grow layers of muscle and fat to protect them from harm to vital organs as they lack a strong enough ribcage to protect themselves... this also enables them to live in their scorching desert home land...

Finally, Trolls used to live in the southern mountains, using them as readily prepared and fortified homes... they were however driven out when the goblins moved in and were forced to migrate further south into the icy wastes which they found to be even better for defending... They acclimatised quickly with thanks to their regenerative capabilities... EDIT: that doesn't actually say what they look like... Trolls are big (8foot on average) and have varying shades of grey and brown flesh as well as bones as hard as adamantium... They are also incredibly skinny and digest food over long periods of time (like snakes)

thats it so far... enjoy

Morty
2007-01-11, 03:08 PM
But... there's a reason why they evil... they live on the border of The Dark Lands (original I know ) which is the home of Evil (yeah... originalty at its best), like where it exudes from and stuff... so thats why their evil... they've lived there for years and its dug intself deep into their blood and genes and wont leave without a fight...
Ah, I see. Never mind then.

Clover
2007-01-11, 03:11 PM
Ah, I see. Never mind then.

lol :smile: (I cant believe I said that out loud the other day)

Devils_Advocate
2007-01-11, 05:04 PM
What do you mean when you say that the gnomes aren't religious?

(1) That they don't believe in the existence of deities at all?

If so, that limits how active the gods can realistically be in your world. It also raises the question of how the gnomes explain divine magic and the like.

(2) That they don't believe that the gods created the world?

I wouldn't call that "not religious" by itself. It certainly wouldn't prevent them from following/worshipping the gods.

(3) That the gods aren't worthy of their worhip and obedience, and maybe aren't truely "divine"?

I find this to be the most interesting possibility. "The gods are a bunch of jerks and idiots who aren't nearly as wise, knowledgeable, or powerful as they pretend to be. They're mysterious only because they're secretive, not because they're fundamentally incomprehensible to mortal minds." The gnomes could have made the collective decision that paying tribute to a patron god is just more trouble than it's really worth, and that divine "gifts" ultimately have the effect of holding a people back and making them dependant. They could lead the world in innovations in science, engineering, arcane magic, and technology, providing for themselves what the other races rely on the gods for. So e.g. where other cultures pray to the gods to bless their crops and send rain, the gnomes irrigate, fertilize, and do their best to control the weather themselves.

And their viewpoint is a pretty viable one towards most fantasy gods, who tend to be rather petty and immature. So long as the gods don't smite the gnomes, or set the other races against them -- perhaps as a pointed way of saying that gods don't need to silence their critics -- the gnomes could be a stable, prosperous, hard-working society and maybe even a source of global progress, as their discoveries and inventions work their way out into the world at large through trade, etc.

Triaxx
2007-01-11, 06:08 PM
Perhaps it's more of 'Gods? No thanks, we have science instead. Pass the Sulfur.'

Triaxx
2007-01-11, 06:08 PM
Perhaps it's more of 'Gods? No thanks, we have science instead. Pass the Sulfur.'

Clover
2007-01-12, 04:17 PM
The reasoning with the Gnomes is somewhere between Devils Advocate and Triaxx... they've always been advanced with their technology and science due to their natural supply of oil as well as living in element infested mountains... They simply believe that all things occur through logic and they have no reason to believe in gods if they have seen no proof... mainly because the gods have never shown up...

This (unnamed) planet is just one of millions in the plane that they are on... and the gods don't really pay attention to all of them... just the ones they need to... they hear and sometimes answer prayers to them or non-exitent gods that are of the same domains... This is why Clerics work... but Gnomes constantly argue abpout it and find ways to duplicate the affects of 'divine intervention' with science...

However... one of the key features which I want to do in a campaign for this world is that a single god (Immensis: God of Domination and Aggression) is trying to gain access to this world and use his minions to take it over through force...

Zaggab
2007-01-13, 09:29 AM
Why does Immensis want to take over the world? Will he become more powerful than the other gods so that he can kick their asses? Do the other gods also have own worlds? Is he just evil? What do the other gods think about Immensis' plan?

Clover
2007-01-13, 12:59 PM
Why does Immensis want to take over the world?

Because he represents a specific element of sentience, the megalomaniacle and forceful part to be more specific. He only does it because it is his purpose as a god of his domain to do these things.


Will he become more powerful than the other gods so that he can kick their asses?

No. It is only his goal to rule this world through force, it will make him no more or less powerful and he has no qualm with the other gods either.


Do the other gods also have own worlds?

certain others will have or will try to gain their own worlds due to similar or entirely different reasons. Just try and think of all the possible reasons someone could have to want to rule the world (whether justified or not) and there will be a god trying to do such a thing.


Is he just evil?

No. He is effectively neutral but could be interpreted as being Evil by some, it al depends on your point of view.


What do the other gods think about Immensis' plan?

Same as above... the only ones who care are those who either wish to stop him or other gods from such a thing, or who wish to save this world, or merely want it as their own... it all depends on which portion of sentience or raw energy they are.

Clover
2007-01-16, 01:56 PM
yay... what now? please... need... Mission Goo!

Clover
2007-01-17, 02:24 PM
A bit big... but here's the map of the main continent for this world

http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=map2md0.jpg

EDIT: Well, it seems too bog to let me put it on the forums... but if you follow the link and click the image it'll come up in full... enjoy :smile:

Devils_Advocate
2007-01-22, 12:12 AM
What do you mean when you say that the gnomes believe that all things occur "through logic"? :smallconfused: Logic isn't a physical substance or process or property... unless you're talking about how the brains of rational intelligent beings behave, anyway.

I think maybe what you mean is that the gnomes are skeptics.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 12:59 AM
I can't believe no one has commented on your races yet. They seem quite interesting.


But... there's a reason why they evil... they live on the border of The Dark Lands (original I know :smallwink:) which is the home of Evil (yeah... originalty at its best), like where it exudes from and stuff... so thats why their evil... they've lived there for years and its dug intself deep into their blood and genes and wont leave without a fight...


I like that idea in general, but what if an Orc was raised far from the Dark Lands? He would still have the evil in his genes, but not have the influence of it. I'm talking like, his parents moved away before he was even conceived.

Or what if he was raised by humans far away?



Humans look like humans...


All right, no problem with this.



Elves are gonna be like humans, but naturally taller and with cat-like ears and eyes as well as reflexes...


So are the ears going to be on the top of their heads then?



Drow are the same as Elves but with sort of grey skin (not too dark though, just not light grey)


Makes sense, I suppose. Certainly skin color can vary some, though?



Kobolds are only about a foot tall and covered in thick ochre yellow scales...


Again, can the color vary?



Goblins are varying shades of yellow and very human-like in appearance apart from a very low hunch and large hands and feet...


Human-like goblin appearance should be interesting. I like that varying shades thing, too.



Orcs - Just think Elves but with built in super-muscles and dark blue skin... also very flared nostrils and sharp fangs...


Blue is a neat color, as well as fangs, and super-muscles. I guess this supports the "Orcs come from Elves" theory too.



Hobgoblins are darker skinned goblins... the older they get, the darker their skin...


Another interesting color scheme. It would be a neat way of telling what sort of hobgoblin you're facing. Though, shouldn't they be related to goblins?



Dwarves are your average short-bearded-men but are immortal, and as they age their skin becomes tougher and more like rock until they eventually become frozen in statue-like forms (very sad)


Immortal? Finally, dwarves are the longest-lived race! Show those elves. I think that the idea of them slowly turning into rock is interesting. I may have heard it before, but that by no means doesn't preclude you from using it. So, are they still sentient as statues? That would be sad...maybe. Maybe dwarves always wanted to be pure rock. Maybe they like sitting around and listening to stuff for ages.



Halflings are gonna be like Tolkein's Hobbits (yeah, same thing I know) but also have a military force as well... and are much shorter as well (about 1 and a half feet)


That's very small, but other than that I can't say much about them.



Gnomes are on average about 4 feet tall and exude oil from their pores at an alarming rate... they also delve deeply into scientific study... they use magic but do not have religion (therefore no Clerics)


Wait, but in the D&D rules, it says you can be a Cleric of a Cause. I don't know if this is a D&D setting yet, but either way it might be interesting. What if gnomes had Clerics of Logic, or Clerics of Science?

Wait...from where would they get spells? Ha! Scratch that idea.



Ogres are huge (like 12 foot huge) greyish brown man-like creatures that grow layers of muscle and fat to protect them from harm to vital organs as they lack a strong enough ribcage to protect themselves... this also enables them to live in their scorching desert home land...


Why does a lot of muscle enable you to live in hot deserts? Wouldn't it cause you to retain more heat? And generally use more energy?



Finally, Trolls used to live in the southern mountains, using them as readily prepared and fortified homes... they were however driven out when the goblins moved in and were forced to migrate further south into the icy wastes which they found to be even better for defending... They acclimatised quickly with thanks to their regenerative capabilities... EDIT: that doesn't actually say what they look like... Trolls are big (8foot on average) and have varying shades of grey and brown flesh as well as bones as hard as adamantium... They are also incredibly skinny and digest food over long periods of time (like snakes)

thats it so far... enjoy

All right, I like these ones too.

See, I think there's your gimmick, your races are different-ish.

Morty
2007-01-22, 08:46 AM
Yes, races are fine, though halflings and kobolds being one foot tall seems a bit strange.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 09:23 AM
True, it kind of turns them from Halflings to Quarterlings

Yakk
2007-01-22, 11:56 AM
The Hall of Dwarf Heros contains, well, the Dwarven Heros. It is a location of festivity and the most sacred rites. The Heros themselves are protected with magic against the occasional drunken idiot.

Most other Dwarves who live to rock-state are placed into echo chambers deep under the ground. A silent army of Dwarves, who will awake and defend the Dwarven race in the final war.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 12:42 PM
The Hall of Dwarf Heros contains, well, the Dwarven Heros. It is a location of festivity and the most sacred rites. The Heros themselves are protected with magic against the occasional drunken idiot.

Most other Dwarves who live to rock-state are placed into echo chambers deep under the ground. A silent army of Dwarves, who will awake and defend the Dwarven race in the final war.

Like the terracotta armies that were buried with Chinese Emperors!

Clover
2007-01-22, 02:14 PM
What do you mean when you say that the gnomes believe that all things occur "through logic"? :smallconfused: Logic isn't a physical substance or process or property... unless you're talking about how the brains of rational intelligent beings behave, anyway.

I think maybe what you mean is that the gnomes are skeptics.

hmm... I suppose it does need more than just 'logic' to describe... they basically beleive that everything can be explained through science

Clover
2007-01-22, 02:24 PM
I like that idea in general, but what if an Orc was raised far from the Dark Lands? He would still have the evil in his genes, but not have the influence of it. I'm talking like, his parents moved away before he was even conceived.

Or what if he was raised by humans far away?.

Its in their blood... Evil is like a disease, and its contagious!


So are the ears going to be on the top of their heads then?.

Not right on top, they're higher and further back then a humans though.


Makes sense, I suppose. Certainly skin color can vary some, though?

Again, can the color vary?.

yeah... skin colour will vary somewhat, just like with all races...


Human-like goblin appearance should be interesting. I like that varying shades thing, too..

The reason I mentioned varying shades here, is because they have a lot more variantion than the other races..


Blue is a neat color, as well as fangs, and super-muscles. I guess this supports the "Orcs come from Elves" theory too..

yeah, thats what I used as a base for coming up with the orcs for this particular world...


Another interesting color scheme. It would be a neat way of telling what sort of hobgoblin you're facing. Though, shouldn't they be related to goblins?.

technically they are just goblins... but the Evil is so deep that they are actually physically changed by it...


Immortal? Finally, dwarves are the longest-lived race! Show those elves. I think that the idea of them slowly turning into rock is interesting. I may have heard it before, but that by no means doesn't preclude you from using it. So, are they still sentient as statues? That would be sad...maybe. Maybe dwarves always wanted to be pure rock. Maybe they like sitting around and listening to stuff for ages. .

No! I thought I was onto something new... oh well... yeah, they remain Sentient. But it stops being fun when your body begins to crumble over the ages, it still hurts...


Wait, but in the D&D rules, it says you can be a Cleric of a Cause. I don't know if this is a D&D setting yet, but either way it might be interesting. What if gnomes had Clerics of Logic, or Clerics of Science?

Wait...from where would they get spells? Ha! Scratch that idea..

Magic is scientifically explainable here (I dont know how yet) and wouldn't a cleric of science just be called a scientist?


Why does a lot of muscle enable you to live in hot deserts? Wouldn't it cause you to retain more heat? And generally use more energy?.

I dont know 'how,' but I was told by my science teachers that a fat person would survive longer than a skinny person in extreme heat.


See, I think there's your gimmick, your races are different-ish.

yay! Im different!

Clover
2007-01-22, 02:25 PM
The Hall of Dwarf Heros contains, well, the Dwarven Heros. It is a location of festivity and the most sacred rites. The Heros themselves are protected with magic against the occasional drunken idiot.

Most other Dwarves who live to rock-state are placed into echo chambers deep under the ground. A silent army of Dwarves, who will awake and defend the Dwarven race in the final war.

I love this idea!!! :smallsmile: but why does that last bit make me think of Ragnarok?

Yakk
2007-01-22, 02:47 PM
I recently got pretty inspired by a dwarf-quote.

From here:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9776630

"Our people have fought with their people since the ancient days. It is stupid and wasteful. This cycle must end, which is why I must take up the sword as my ancestors did."

The Stone Ledger: The Dwarves Remember

Deep in the mountains, the Dwarf people have records that go back to when most of the other races were learning about fire. Second only to the Aboleth themselves, the racial memory of the Dwarves extends to days beyond reckoning. At least, beyond reckoning to anyone who isn't a Dwarf. Dwarves keep their records chiseled into stone and preserved for all time with mystical might. While the spellbooks of the Elves eventually crumble into dust, the Ledgers of the Dwarves will stand in mute testament to their triumphs and failures for as long as day follows night and night follows day.

The Ledgers of the Dwarves measure in exact terms the location of all the cool things that the Dwarven people have found, they give tips for dealing with problems that Dwarves have overcome in the past, and they record in excruciating detail every bad thing that anyone has ever done to the Dwarven race. Remember that when you consider the implications of the fact that every group has at one time or another been at war with any other race you care to name. So the fact that sometimes goblins commit atrocities against Dwarf settlements means that each and every Dwarf child grows up reared on vivid and gory stories of generations of conflicts with goblins – and goblins really don't. From the goblin perspective… nothing is happening at all. Goblins don't live nearly as long as Dwarves do, and that means that they don't have a war with Dwarves even every generation.

This discontinuity leads to Dwarves being much better at the eternal war they are fighting with the Orcs, the Giants, and the Goblins than their opponents. That's because noone else really has the perspective to see that it is an ongoing conflict. The other races see it as a series of separate conflicts that are all individually about something, and mostly their poor record keeping techniques leave them often unable to even recollect the previous conflict. So really, the Dwarves keep winning because they are the only ones playing.

You may be tempted to ask "If these wars kill thousands, and the only reason they're being kept alive is because of the Dwarf Ledger, doesn't that make the Dwarves the bad guys?" And honestly, that's a pretty good question. The Dwarves are Lawful Good and are the only race involved that understands the epic scale of the over-conflict. But that doesn't mean that they bear sole responsibility. Indeed, while the average Goblin on the street doesn't even know that there's an ancient rivalry between his people and the Dwarves, the list of usual suspects for evil overlords is a laundry list of people who actually also know the whole deal. Liches, Fiend Lords, and of course Maglubiet and Hruggek all know that Dwarves spend large amounts of time training and preparing for battle with the goblin people, and they don't tell the goblins. The thought is that by not telling the goblins that the Dwarves are totally ready for them and have been for thousands of years, that goblins will fight more bravely – they literally don't know how very unlikely each individual goblin is to make it out alive from any conflict.

So life is pretty weird for a Dwarf. As a Dwarf you know that you are in an eternal struggle with the Goblin people. You also know that several times in your life, goblinoids are going to behave towards the Dwarven people as if nothing was wrong and have flourishing trade relations instead. But you also know that once every couple of goblin generations (which is to say several times in your life if you happen to be a Dwarf) some warlord is going to arise and send hordes of goblins to destroy your family. So if Dwarves come off as being intolerant jerks, that's why.

A special note has to be made about Dwarves and Arcane Magic. They like it. They are really good at it and have tremendous supplies of wizardly goods down in the depths. They can read spellbooks in the dark, and they are encouraged to do so. In some previous editions of D&D the Dwarven people were not allowed to use Arcane Magic because Gimli wasn't a spellcaster (the actual reasoning, I'm not even making that up), thereby ignoring the Dwarven magicians in many source legends (the Ring Saga for one), and even the Dwarven Magic from the Lord of the Rings. Fortunately, the bad old days are behind us, and Dwarves are back where they are supposed to be – slinging spells, scribing runes, and crafting magic items in their mountain halls.

Wonderful, eh? It even works if your goblinoids are true evil. Dwarves probably have to deal with some human king, emperor or warlord trying to invade them every century of two -- so the Dwarven relationship with human kingdoms is once of a "cease fire" not of "peace".

The Dwarves don't know peace, not like other races can. They live too long.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 03:15 PM
The Dwarves don't know peace, not like other races can. They live too long.

For some reason, I love this quote.

TheThan
2007-01-22, 03:33 PM
You could make your gnomes unable to be healed by divine magic, a result of their heresy. After all what self-respecting DND god(ess) would allow an entire race to go unpunished for such disrespect and foolishness.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 03:36 PM
You could make your gnomes unable to be healed by divine magic, a result of their heresy. After all what self-respecting DND god(ess) would allow an entire race to go unpunished for such disrespect and foolishness.

Or funnier yet, make them take damage as per undead. Except that inflict spells would also do damage.

Hehe, poor gnomes.

Clover
2007-01-22, 03:39 PM
Deep in the mountains, the Dwarf people have records that go back to when most of the other races were learning about fire. Second only to the Aboleth themselves, the racial memory of the Dwarves extends to days beyond reckoning. At least, beyond reckoning to anyone who isn't a Dwarf. Dwarves keep their records chiseled into stone and preserved for all time with mystical might. While the spellbooks of the Elves eventually crumble into dust, the Ledgers of the Dwarves will stand in mute testament to their triumphs and failures for as long as day follows night and night follows day.

The Ledgers of the Dwarves measure in exact terms the location of all the cool things that the Dwarven people have found, they give tips for dealing with problems that Dwarves have overcome in the past, and they record in excruciating detail every bad thing that anyone has ever done to the Dwarven race. Remember that when you consider the implications of the fact that every group has at one time or another been at war with any other race you care to name. So the fact that sometimes goblins commit atrocities against Dwarf settlements means that each and every Dwarf child grows up reared on vivid and gory stories of generations of conflicts with goblins – and goblins really don't. From the goblin perspective… nothing is happening at all. Goblins don't live nearly as long as Dwarves do, and that means that they don't have a war with Dwarves even every generation.

This discontinuity leads to Dwarves being much better at the eternal war they are fighting with the Orcs, the Giants, and the Goblins than their opponents. That's because noone else really has the perspective to see that it is an ongoing conflict. The other races see it as a series of separate conflicts that are all individually about something, and mostly their poor record keeping techniques leave them often unable to even recollect the previous conflict. So really, the Dwarves keep winning because they are the only ones playing.

You may be tempted to ask "If these wars kill thousands, and the only reason they're being kept alive is because of the Dwarf Ledger, doesn't that make the Dwarves the bad guys?" And honestly, that's a pretty good question. The Dwarves are Lawful Good and are the only race involved that understands the epic scale of the over-conflict. But that doesn't mean that they bear sole responsibility. Indeed, while the average Goblin on the street doesn't even know that there's an ancient rivalry between his people and the Dwarves, the list of usual suspects for evil overlords is a laundry list of people who actually also know the whole deal. Liches, Fiend Lords, and of course Maglubiet and Hruggek all know that Dwarves spend large amounts of time training and preparing for battle with the goblin people, and they don't tell the goblins. The thought is that by not telling the goblins that the Dwarves are totally ready for them and have been for thousands of years, that goblins will fight more bravely – they literally don't know how very unlikely each individual goblin is to make it out alive from any conflict.

So life is pretty weird for a Dwarf. As a Dwarf you know that you are in an eternal struggle with the Goblin people. You also know that several times in your life, goblinoids are going to behave towards the Dwarven people as if nothing was wrong and have flourishing trade relations instead. But you also know that once every couple of goblin generations (which is to say several times in your life if you happen to be a Dwarf) some warlord is going to arise and send hordes of goblins to destroy your family. So if Dwarves come off as being intolerant jerks, that's why.

A special note has to be made about Dwarves and Arcane Magic. They like it. They are really good at it and have tremendous supplies of wizardly goods down in the depths. They can read spellbooks in the dark, and they are encouraged to do so. In some previous editions of D&D the Dwarven people were not allowed to use Arcane Magic because Gimli wasn't a spellcaster (the actual reasoning, I'm not even making that up), thereby ignoring the Dwarven magicians in many source legends (the Ring Saga for one), and even the Dwarven Magic from the Lord of the Rings. Fortunately, the bad old days are behind us, and Dwarves are back where they are supposed to be – slinging spells, scribing runes, and crafting magic items in their mountain halls.

hehe. cool :smallbiggrin:

Clover
2007-01-22, 03:40 PM
Or funnier yet, make them take damage as per undead. Except that inflict spells would also do damage.

Hehe, poor gnomes.

I dunno... seeing as how the gods only pay attention when being prayed too or are in need of something, the probably wouldn't care that much... I suspose some gods might care... ill have to work on that... cheers :smallsmile:

Matthew
2007-01-22, 06:23 PM
Like the terracotta armies that were buried with Chinese Emperors!

Just one, I think, the first one... The Terracotta Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terracotta_Army)

Lithgon the Crazy
2007-01-22, 06:29 PM
Magic is scientifically explainable here (I dont know how yet) and wouldn't a cleric of science just be called a scientist?

You could make them Clerics with arcane magic instead of divine? But that would make them a wizard/sorcerer. Could possibly make them a variant.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-22, 07:55 PM
Just one, I think, the first one... The Terracotta Army (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terracotta_Army)

Ah, all right. I thought there were at least two.

Anyway, "Like the Terracotta Army buried with the Chinese Emperor!"

Eighth_Seraph
2007-01-22, 10:24 PM
Anyway, Clover, there still needs to be an underlying basis that makes your world, well, your world.

For example, in my work-in-progress world of Pseudelity, everything is based around the sun and moon. The sun is the embodiment of law and organization, she's generally depicted as a powerful, Valkyrie-esque Human figure with shining, tan skin and holding her signature weapon, the halberd. The Sun created Humans, and later Dwarves in her own image, imbuing them with strength and a warlike attitude. The Sun is also responsible for the laying of laws governing nature and the way that creation would run, as well as the foundations and raw earth of the world. In essence, she created the world.

However, the Sun being the very essence of law, she would make existence for her followers miserable her infinitely demanding ways, which is where the Moon comes in. The Moon is the embodiment of Chaos and freedom and is usually depicted as a small and merry Gnome with loose, comfortable clothes and a flute always in hand. He's the creator of the Gnomes and later Elves and infused in his creation a love of music and a necessity for freedom much like his own. The moon created the seas and the forests and the unnecessarily beautiful things of the world: flowers and waterfalls and the birds in the trees. Essentially, he made life worth living.

That's the rundown, but all of that led to a massive and bloody racist war due to each race declaring their creator superior, despite the fact that the Sun and Moon are on very friendly terms. So this led to a break of the ties between races and the heavenly bodies, to presserve the world of Pseudelity. From then on, Any creature born during the day was encouraged to show the Sun special respect, and any born at night to the Moon.

Of course, this leads to a necessity for an antagonist. This comes in the form of the Shadow, which is what happens when something steps in and blocks the Sun and Moon's light.


The thing is, to think of all of that, I started with "I want a low magic campaign." Then went on to "Well, the sun and moon have lots of historical implications" and everything worked from there. Bottom line is: Find something to base your campaign on.

Yakk
2007-01-22, 10:43 PM
In the world of www.epicrpg.net there are 6 branches of magic.

Alchemy and Metaphysics are "science-like" magic.

Metaphysics workers understand the laws of physics, and through that understanding change them.

Alchemists do the same via chemistry.

Spell lists, for inspiration, are linked from:
http://www.epicrpg.com/downloads.htm

imworlds
2007-01-22, 10:47 PM
Hey Clover,

Hopefully it's okay to shamelessly plug in these forums. If it's not, I'm sure someone will let me know. But I recently started a podcast that addresses world building for roleplaying and storytelling. I'm an English teacher, so I focus on literary concepts and terms and how they relate to collaborative gaming, and I use films, comics and books to elaborate on the concepts. The overall idea is to make the world story-centered first (developing a premise, thematic elements, cohesive characters, and making the mix unique). I'd love feedback, as your questions are the kind that I have attempted to address in the past, and will attempt to address in the future.

And again, please let me know if posting this shameless plug here is a huge no-no...

Paul at imaginaryworlds.net

Eighth_Seraph
2007-01-22, 10:54 PM
Heh, you even got the sig covered, AND your name. Either way, it's on topic and helpful, so I'm thinking that it's okay. Not sure if the Giant will appreciate it, but then again, I haven't seen him on the forums in a while. Beware the mods, Paul, beware.

Clover
2007-01-24, 09:21 AM
You could make them Clerics with arcane magic instead of divine? But that would make them a wizard/sorcerer. Could possibly make them a variant.

Yeah maybe... but what would be different about them? Maybe using chemicals and stuff to 'enhance' their magic? hmm...

Clover
2007-01-24, 09:22 AM
The thing is, to think of all of that, I started with "I want a low magic campaign." Then went on to "Well, the sun and moon have lots of historical implications" and everything worked from there. Bottom line is: Find something to base your campaign on.

erm... wow :smalleek: you've put a lot of thought into that, nice. hmm... I keep meaning to make notes whenever I see something that inspires me, but i always forget...

Clover
2007-01-24, 09:24 AM
In the world of www.epicrpg.net (http://www.epicrpg.net) there are 6 branches of magic.

Alchemy and Metaphysics are "science-like" magic.

Metaphysics workers understand the laws of physics, and through that understanding change them.

Alchemists do the same via chemistry.

Spell lists, for inspiration, are linked from:
http://www.epicrpg.com/downloads.htm

Looks interesting... I'll have to take a longer look when I've got more time. cheers :smile:

mikeejimbo
2007-01-24, 02:04 PM
Yeah maybe... but what would be different about them? Maybe using chemicals and stuff to 'enhance' their magic? hmm...

Smoking gnomes.

"Dude, like seriously, the universe is all OUT THERE. And like, we can tap into this energy thingy with our MINDS. Pass me more of that...whoa"

Clover
2007-01-24, 02:47 PM
Smoking gnomes.

"Dude, like seriously, the universe is all OUT THERE. And like, we can tap into this energy thingy with our MINDS. Pass me more of that...whoa"

Holy- erm... Dookie! That rocks! Must - Use! thankies! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

mikeejimbo
2007-01-24, 06:38 PM
Holy- erm... Dookie! That rocks! Must - Use! thankies! :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

Heheh, I'm glad you like it. I just thought gnomes using chemicals sounded funny.

Hey, would a gnome on drugs see people?

Clover
2007-01-25, 01:54 PM
Heheh, I'm glad you like it. I just thought gnomes using chemicals sounded funny.

Hey, would a gnome on drugs see people?

lol :smalltongue:

Gnome1: "I see people,"
Gnome2: "I see pink people,"
Gnome3: whisper "I see dead people,"

Morty
2007-01-25, 02:57 PM
By the way, are these races going to have D&D stats, or not?

Clover
2007-01-25, 03:03 PM
nope... I'll be creating stats for them