Variant Spell Lists

[Xuldarinar]

Looking over the DMG, among other things I note that it discusses modifying character classes via modifying their spell list. Some examples of which include the cantor (A divine bard with the cleric spell list), and the witch (which isn't specific what it is a variant spell list for, but seems geared towards the sorcerer).

Given DM permission, as you need with all things, one could easily swap one's spell list with that of another, even so far as to change systems (such as swapping the wizard's spell list with the psion's powers and point system). That said, what advantages could come of this? Any class/spell list combinations that would be particularly flavorful? For this, of course, one should limit spell levels as normal. For instance, a ranger or paladin swap should retain the limit and progression for 4th level spells.


Example ideas:

Cleric + Mysteries (shadowcaster)
Learn mysteries as shadowcaster, uses as shadowcaster, but cast via wisdom. Still acquire domains but only having the domain spell slot for them to use.

Paladin + Cleric spell list or Ranger + Druid spell list
Retain spell progression, just a swap of lists.

Bard + Psion (Seer) power list
Learn powers in numbers as bard, but convert to spell point system for bard.

Druid + Binder Vestiges
Replace spellcasting with the ability to bind vestiges. Do not acquire increased number of vestiges that can be bound at once, nor other similar class features of the binder.

[Blackjackg]

Your thinking on this seems pretty solid to me, but you've got to remember that not all spell lists are created equal. Some have more spells, some have more varied spells, and some just have straight-up better spells. As a slightly overblown example, imagine if the warmage or beguiler (with the ability to spontaneously cast any spell from the entire list) got handed the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list.

When creating variant spell lists, it's important to recognize how altering the spell list can vastly change the power of the class. Not that this is always a bad idea... giving the paladin a more versatile list might make it more powerful, but then a paladin in a mixed party could often use a little more power.

[Xuldarinar]

Your thinking on this seems pretty solid to me, but you've got to remember that not all spell lists are created equal. Some have more spells, some have more varied spells, and some just have straight-up better spells. As a slightly overblown example, imagine if the warmage or beguiler (with the ability to spontaneously cast any spell from the entire list) got handed the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list.

When creating variant spell lists, it's important to recognize how altering the spell list can vastly change the power of the class. Not that this is always a bad idea... giving the paladin a more versatile list might make it more powerful, but then a paladin in a mixed party could often use a little more power.

Granted. Now in some cases one should change the means of casting as well as the list. For instance; Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, or Warmage could receive the wizard spell list and not be necessarily over-powered if one were to make it so they learned and prepared spells as a wizard, and likely it is best that they be specialists towards their respective focus for this purpose.

Giving the paladin the cleric spell list would certainly expand their options, and perhaps make them in some ways more consistent with the prestige paladin variant in terms of spell access.

[Pluto!]

Example ideas:

Cleric + Mysteries (shadowcaster)
Learn mysteries as shadowcaster, uses as shadowcaster, but cast via wisdom. Still acquire domains but only having the domain spell slot for them to use.

Paladin + Cleric spell list or Ranger + Druid spell list
Retain spell progression, just a swap of lists.

Bard + Psion (Seer) power list
Learn powers in numbers as bard, but convert to spell point system for bard.

Druid + Binder Vestiges
Replace spellcasting with the ability to bind vestiges. Do not acquire increased number of vestiges that can be bound at once, nor other similar class features of the binder.

It's kind of funny that those last two are things my group's basically used from 3rd party materials (Keith Baker's Thoughtsinger and the Secrets of Pact Magic Druid variant). Both were very cool.

I kind of want to paste the Lexicon of the Evolving Mind over the Factotum's spell mechanic, but I suspect someone would throw something at me for it.

[Xuldarinar]

It's kind of funny that those last two are things my group's basically used from 3rd party materials (Keith Baker's Thoughtsinger and the Secrets of Pact Magic Druid variant). Both were very cool.

I kind of want to paste the Lexicon of the Evolving Mind over the Factotum's spell mechanic, but I suspect someone would throw something at me for it.
Never heard of those before. They sound cool.

I'd say go for it.