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View Full Version : Expanding Racial Templatitude... thoughts?



Zain_Thorngallow
2007-01-08, 04:38 PM
Being in the midst of playing in a Savage Species campaign, I've been thinking about the topic of Templates to no small degree.

As is oft-mentioned, I think, nothing can cause havoc in a campaign more then Level Adjustment.

(Spellcasters in particular suffer too much for what they gain from it. Specialists can become near unstopable (or at least undetectable) with the right templates. Front-Line Fighters start off near-unmanageably fragile and need a forgiving DM to survive starting out but, assuming nice Con bonuses, can become quite workable and effective once some hit dice are under their belt.)

But, ignoring that particular part of the topic, the customizing aspects introduced by Racial Templates can be pretty darned entertaining, I find.

What occured to me, and I'm curious about what others think, is the following:

- Remove Half-Elf and Half-Orc from the Race list.
- Add a Half-XYZ for each Race, each a +1 Level Adjustment Template and bestowing perks thematically appropriate, like for example:
Half-Dwarf: Gain 60ft Darkvision + Stonecunning
Half-Elf: Gain Sleep Immunity + Auto-Search on Secret Doors
Half-Goblin: +10' Movement, +4 Ride Checks
Half-Gnome: Gain Gnome Spell-like Abilities
Half-Halfling: +1 to all Saving Throws, +2 vs Fear
Half-Human: +1 Skill Point per Level, +4 at 1st.
Half-Kobold: +1 Natural Armour, Gain 60ft Darkvision
Half-Orc: +2 Str, -2 Int, Gain 60ft Darkvision.The result? Instead of a cookie cutter Half-Elf race you could have a Human Half-Elf, or an Elf Half-Human, with non-trivially different traits between them. Likewise a Human Half-Orc or an Orcish Half-Human.

The change, as I see it, still provides benefits for those who stay a full race (no level adjustment) while likewise allowing those who want some extra flavour to go a little exotic without unbalancing the general power level of the party substantially.

Plus, it would resolve the question that always kind of bugged me about why only Humans, Dragons, Angels, and Fiends seem to commonly cross-breed. (A half Gnome Dwarf, for example, would seem an understandable occurance.)

Anyway... perspectives?

Fhaolan
2007-01-08, 04:41 PM
Pretty much what I was thinking of doing at some point when I'm bored. I just haven't gotten around to it.

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-08, 04:44 PM
I like this idea what about duplicate abilities would a half kobold dwarf gain any extra darkvision or is that just lost on him?

Zain_Thorngallow
2007-01-08, 05:00 PM
I like this idea what about duplicate abilities would a half kobold dwarf gain any extra darkvision or is that just lost on him?


Good point. I would ammend, perhaps, the Darkvision bonus to instead grant 60' Darkvision OR increase the range of existing Darkvision by... I dunno... 30'?

As a side note, a comely Dwarven lass bringing a strapping young Kobold home to "Meet the Parents" is a mental image that shall amuse (and disturb) me for some time. :smalltongue:

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-08, 05:03 PM
Good point. I would ammend, perhaps, the Darkvision bonus to instead grant 60' Darkvision OR increase the range of existing Darkvision by... I dunno... 30'?

As a side note, a comely Dwarven lass bringing a strapping young Kobold home to "Meet the Parents" is a mental image that shall amuse (and disturb) me for some time. :smalltongue:

Yeah I don't see that being a common union. :smallsmile:

MrNexx
2007-01-08, 05:06 PM
Good point. I would ammend, perhaps, the Darkvision bonus to instead grant 60' Darkvision OR increase the range of existing Darkvision by... I dunno... 30'?

I would say that it would simply overlap... there's really no reason the two would stack.

However, I'm not so sure about them being +1 LAs. They need some sort of drawback, to be sure, but a +1 LA is too much. Maybe make them feats?

Diggorian
2007-01-08, 05:12 PM
I like the rules design of these templates, each well reflecting the +1 LA. Although, I'd dislike the variations this hybridization could create. Just me, a halfling half-kobold would give nice complementary bonuses but ... I couldnt reconcile a parent not destroying said abomination.

Which parent determines the base? Female orc taking pity on a human slave makes a Orc Half-human? Drunk chubby-chaser elf fellow accidental sires an Elf Half-dwarf?

Scorpina
2007-01-08, 05:13 PM
Hmm, I'm not really sure those would be worth the hit you'd take with the +1 LA, for me anyway.

Not that the idea isn't just awesome with pink socks on, mind you.

CuthroatMcGee
2007-01-08, 05:19 PM
The logistics of some of these unions is a truly horrific image. The goblin half-elf, for example, or the halfling half-orc. And, of course, many of these abominations would quickly be stamped out.
When I saw the formats at the top, what I assumed was that you combined the two of them. For example, a half-human half-elf would get sleep immunity, door detection, and all the skill points. If those got beefed up a fair amount, then maybe I'd try to do that.

Halcyon_Dax
2007-01-08, 05:22 PM
I like the idea of these bonuses replacing the first level feat. Sounds much more worth it than +1LA.

MrNexx
2007-01-08, 05:31 PM
Of course, if it's a feat, you need to make sure you include "You cannot take your own race as the race you a hybrid of."

I can see the half-human, half-human, humans already. ;-)

Zain_Thorngallow
2007-01-08, 05:50 PM
Of course, if it's a feat, you need to make sure you include "You cannot take your own race as the race you a hybrid of."

I can see the half-human, half-human, humans already. ;-)


What, and miss-out on the opportunity to be "more human then human"? :smallsmile:

Seriously, I had that thought as well but didn't want to bog down the first "concept" post down *too* badly.

As for having this as a First Level Feat rather then level adjustment, I can understand the perspective (level adjustment is really, really painful) but when you compare what you could get to, say... Weapon Focus, its a bit too much.

I mean, a Halfling Rogue could take Weapon Focus: Sling, and get a +1 to hit with the weapon... or take Half-Dwarf, and no longer need a light to see where he's going in the dark AND auto-search for stonework traps. A powergamer would be silly to NOT take it.

Whereas I do sort of see that sort of useful stuff not otherwise available from Class Features as being worth 1 Hit die, even considering all the vast stuff class levels will tend to give you.

(Unless you are a caster, of course. In which case being a level behind will probably hurt forever. On that front, no argument that such characters would be hard-pressed to benefit from such a setup.)

BCOVertigo
2007-01-08, 06:05 PM
Good idea, it's definitely much better than the current half races and eating a feat instead of a level makes them much easier to consider. Only one problem, you just created the Quarterling...
Invest in a construct bane weapon, the Inevitables are on their way.

Zain_Thorngallow
2007-01-08, 06:06 PM
I like the rules design of these templates, each well reflecting the +1 LA. Although, I'd dislike the variations this hybridization could create. Just me, a halfling half-kobold would give nice complementary bonuses but ... I couldnt reconcile a parent not destroying said abomination.

Which parent determines the base? Female orc taking pity on a human slave makes a Orc Half-human? Drunk chubby-chaser elf fellow accidental sires an Elf Half-dwarf?


I understand what you are saying here, definately. On the other hand, the system implies that Dragons, Angels, and Fiends knock-up folks on a non-irregular basis. I can see how Half-Celestials would be kept around, and Half-Fiends under dramatically different family structures, but Half-Dragons, particularly of Chromatic varieties, would face the same "parental abomination destroying" urges you imply above, yet seem relatively common as such things go.

So I'd personally leave such a topic as to how the child survived up to the player... maybe their parents actually somehow got along well with each other, perchance? *shrug* :smallredface:

As for choosing the Base Race, I had largely been thinking to simply set that as the Mother for sake of expediency, though logically that probably doesn't make so much sense. (Blame... I don't know... magic, I guess.)

I'd probably, again, leave such decisions in the hand of the player, with the advice to favor the side that raised him. (Thus the various Cultural traits, like Dwarven Dodge Bonuses, Elven Weapon Proficiencies, and Halfling Thrown Weapon ability, all of which exist on the Base side rather then the template.)

Zain_Thorngallow
2007-01-08, 06:21 PM
Only one problem, you just created the Quarterling...




Technically it should be pointed out that a Human Half-Halfling or Halfling Half-Human would be a Three-Quarterling.

They get REALLY angry when you confuse them with their actual Quarterling cousins, the Nixie Half-Halflings. :smallbiggrin:

Diggorian
2007-01-08, 06:53 PM
I can see how Half-Celestials would be kept around, and Half-Fiends under dramatically different family structures, but Half-Dragons, particularly of Chromatic varieties, would face the same "parental abomination destroying" urges you imply above, yet seem relatively common as such things go.


Very true. The very few times I've seen half-chromantic draconic, half-fiend character backstories, Mommy or Daddy was very evil. :smallamused: The kid was kept for a dark purpose, never a casual 'oops' child. Nale and Sabine could have a half-fiend, but is it Nales? :smalltongue:

The first goblin born with stubby legs and a full beard aint no wonderchild. And what dwarf would do this? I think the +1 to hit goblins stands for something else :smallwink: Half orcs and elves using this system I've got no inhibitions about. There must be support groups for these parents by now.

I'd agree with the matrilineal base race. Females tend to raise young in their native culture, so the outsider influence gets the half label.

I still think the +1 LA is good idea, these abilities are too strong to be feats. But if you're in doubt, I'd beef'em up rather than make a feat.