General DnD (and Pathfinder) lore thread

[123456789blaaa]

Cause why not? :smallbiggrin:

A question: who is the creepiest dnd deity? I'd have to give my vote to Yurtus White Hands (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Yurtrus). He never speaks, has no mouth, and is completely covered is sores and boils except for his hands which are perfectly white. No one knows what his divine realm looks like because nothing has been inside it and lived. Even Gruumsh is creeped out by him. Very freaky.

EDIT: I would highly recommend Afroakuma's Planar Question threads (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299450)for seekers of DnD knowledge.

Afro and his thread are extremely good. Heck, I'm the second most frequent poster in the thread besides Afro himself. However:

While he'll handle all DnD lore (as long as it's not a crunch question) but he will never ever handle pathfinder or 4e lore. Come here if you want to ask questions about that them.

He is never interested in breaking down sources. In his own words:


If it's something quick then I don't mind directing people in the right direction, but if it's an actual challenge to the veracity of my research, I'm not going to go back and do it twice to satisfy someone who's already gotten their question answered.


Sometimes he simply won't answer or gets sick of answering some questions. He doesn't really do it often (unless you're in the habit of bugging him even after he brings out the :smallannoyed: smiley's. I would strongly recommend you not do that).

Come to this thread if you want any of that stuff.

Also, before asking any lore question about a being in dnd, I'd recommend checking both normal Wikipedia and the Greywiki (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Greyhawk) to see if they hold the answer.

[Brookshw]

I can't say I'm surprised that you off all people started this thread :smalltongue:

I'm pretty creeped out by Daruth Winterwood, a mad elf living on the far plane and a brain literally filled with spiders is bad enough, him wanting to return is even worse.

[123456789blaaa]

I can't say I'm surprised that you off all people started this thread :smalltongue:

I'm pretty creeped out by Daruth Winterwood, a mad elf living on the far plane and a brain literally filled with spiders is bad enough, him wanting to return is even worse.

Really? Why?

I've never heard of Daruth. Where can I find more info on him?

The Patient One is pretty creepy. A many-mouthed, many-eyed, tentacled creature that waits in the darkness, contunally whispering to itself and eating people. It's temples are towers, often built on high hills in isolated areas. At the apex of each tower is a stone altar, carved to appear as a mouth surrounded by eyes, stained dark red with blood.

There seems to be a connection with the beings Ghaunadaur, the Elder Elemental God, and Tharizdun. I'll post the connections in a bit. For some reason I don't see much theorizing on dnd lore that much. If anyone has any theories though, this thread is the place to post em.

[MikelaC1]

Juiblex, a disgusting pile of slime that spits slimes and puddings at people isnt exactly high on the nice list.

[Karnith]

I've never heard of Daruth. Where can I find more info on him?
He's mentioned in the description of the Far Realm in Manual of the Planes.

There's honestly not much to know about him, though. He was an elven wizard who led an expedition into the Far Realm by transporting an entire keep, called Xaxox, there. It ended poorly, and now he spends his time trying to get Xaxox back to our reality.

[Brookshw]

He's briefly mentioned in the description of the Far Realm in Manual of the Planes.

I'm afb atm but he has a research institute named Xaxox iirc, was part of a doomed expedition of wizards that went to the far plane to set up shop. Afro pegged it in the 3rd layer of his headcanon I believe. There really isn't much known about him. Someone wrote up some home Canon about him coming from FR somewhere near Myth Dranor. Other than elf, spiders, his home there isn't really any "official" info on him.

Personally I'm using him as one of the bbeg's in my current campaign and started him as a level 28 wizard/urpriest mystic thurge with a few other prestige dips. I don't know if the players or I are more scarred to fight him.

Edit: ninja editted!

[123456789blaaa]

Juiblex, a disgusting pile of slime that spits slimes and puddings at people isnt exactly high on the nice list.

Juiblex is pretty cool. I'm split on whether I like the style of his old pictures:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8b/Juiblex.JPG

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2481/3798531562_d6fa267bd2.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9xzvqH-1A4o/Tnx1o6_94_I/AAAAAAAADKA/eEEv-0zDHTs/s320/Demon-Juiblex-Drawing.jpg

Or his newer portrayals better:

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/alumni_Juiblex_fc1.jpg

http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/images/7/78/Juiblex03.jpg

The more recent ones fit the fact that Juiblex is a Prince (of Nothing but still). He rules atop the biggest mound of garbage in the multiverse over an infinite sea of mindless slimes and oozes. That's kind of awesome.

The older ones are just so delightfuly disgusting and mindless though. Look at all of those black eyeballs and spewing mouths. They emphasize the NOTHING part while the newer pictures emphasize the PRINCE part.

[Trickquestion]

So, I've had a rather burning lore question for some time now, and this seems just the place to ask it.

How are evil people sorted when they die? In the various settings I've seen, their is a clear distinction between divine gods of evil alignments, who have realms of their own design, and the diabolic creatures that inhabit various incarnations of hell. The thing that I've never been given a straight answer on is how the souls of the wicked are divided up, as I've seen reference to evil gods taking souls into their realms, as well as evil souls being cast into hell.

[Dsurion]

Vecna: I know nothing about him other than that he was a Lich who ascended to godhood. Anybody feel like sharing a bunch of details?

[Brookshw]

Plenty of info on Vecna's available. Here's a good starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vecna. He started off in Greyhawk as a shmuck, his mother got killed. He vows revenge and goes off to obtain power and does so. Eventually it goes on to getting chucked into Ravenloft, through some divine trickery nabbing divine power and almost destroying the planes and pissing of the Lady of Pain (though really Die, Vecna, Die never needed to happen). Did you have something specific you were wondering?

Also to note, Afro's the scholar of D&D fluff, I cannot recommend his thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299450) enough.

[Eldan]

So, I've had a rather burning lore question for some time now, and this seems just the place to ask it.

How are evil people sorted when they die? In the various settings I've seen, their is a clear distinction between divine gods of evil alignments, who have realms of their own design, and the diabolic creatures that inhabit various incarnations of hell. The thing that I've never been given a straight answer on is how the souls of the wicked are divided up, as I've seen reference to evil gods taking souls into their realms, as well as evil souls being cast into hell.

It's the same for pretty much any alignment: if you are devoted to a god and that god wants to take you, you go to their realm. If you arne't, you go to the plane that most closely fits your alignment and then get the standard treatment for that plane.

[Big Fau]

So, I've had a rather burning lore question for some time now, and this seems just the place to ask it.

How are evil people sorted when they die? In the various settings I've seen, their is a clear distinction between divine gods of evil alignments, who have realms of their own design, and the diabolic creatures that inhabit various incarnations of hell. The thing that I've never been given a straight answer on is how the souls of the wicked are divided up, as I've seen reference to evil gods taking souls into their realms, as well as evil souls being cast into hell.

It varies:


Chaotic Evil beings end up in the Abyss, and if they worshipped a Demon Prince they will usually turn up on that Prince's layer. If not they end up on the 1st layer, wherein Pazuzu's servants may or may not gut them for sport. If they survive, they can attempt to navigate the 1st layer's portals to see if they can find their patron's realm.
CE creatures that worship a deity end up directly in that deity's realm upon death. In Lolth's case, any evil-aligned Drow that worships her ends up in the Demonweb Pits in the Abyss.
NE characters go to whereever their deity is, as Yugoloths don't garner worship the way Demons and Devils do. If the petitioner has no deity, they end up in the Bleak Eternities or an equally appropriate realm.
LE characters go straight to Baator. Do not pass the Gods, do not collect 50 Evil Points. All LE petitioners end up in Avernus, the 1st layer, and are sorted by the Baatezu into where they go.
If a LE soul would go to a deity, the Baatezu put the petitioner on a boat and ship them down the Stix to whatever lower plane the petitioner belongs on (in Kurtlumak's, Tiamat's, and Set's cases this means just being transported to another layer of Hell, or taking a hike across Avernus to get to the Dragon Queen).
People who are in a Faustian Pact or who worship one of the Archdevils end up undergoing the process to become a Lemure, and once that's done they are shipped off to wherever they belong in the Hierarchy.
A final group, who bargained a Faustian Pact and escaped the contract (by not becoming LE upon death) are judged by the Pit Fiends. If they can't reach a proper verdict, the soul is sent to Dis or Cania and kept in a "prison" until either a verdict is reached (usually by outside intervention from an Inevitable or an adventuring party) or until the victim converts. The safest option is Cania, as Levistus' "prison" is cryostasis.
In Eberron, nothing specific happens unless an Evil Outsider directly intervenes and takes your soul after death. Evil characters go to either Dolurrh or to the Silver Flame (the latter requires you to worship it to end up a part of it). Once in Dolurrh the soul starts gradually losing its memories and will to do anything.
In Faerun you either follow the above (non-Eberron) rules or you end up in the Wall, which sucks.

[123456789blaaa]

Plenty of info on Vecna's available. Here's a good starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vecna. He started off in Greyhawk as a shmuck, his mother got killed. He vows revenge and goes off to obtain power and does so. Eventually it goes on to getting chucked into Ravenloft, through some divine trickery nabbing divine power and almost destroying the planes and pissing of the Lady of Pain (though really Die, Vecna, Die never needed to happen). Did you have something specific you were wondering?

Also to note, Afro's the scholar of D&D fluff, I cannot recommend his thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299450) enough.

I would also recommend the Greywiki. (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Vecna) for Vecna info. Actually before asking any lore question about a being in dnd, I'd recommend checking both wiki's to see if they hold the answer.

Afro had an interesting theory about The Serpent:


Vecna and his mother were among the last of the Ur-Flan, a tribal people practiced in secret ways who were driven to extinction by witch hunters. This suggests to me that they might have been soul-sharers rather than just regular mages, and that young Vecna might have subconsciously been working with a bound vestige. It would also explain the transgressive nature of the knowledge and powers he employed to flee Ravenloft, which defied conventional planar metaphysics.

Afro and his thread are extremely good. Heck, I'm the second most frequent poster in the thread besides Afro himself. However, he assumes Planescape when it comes to questions, he's almost never interested in breaking down sources, and sometimes he simply won't answer or gets sick of answering some questions (he really doesn't like continual follow-ups). He's not interested in debates either. So come here if you want any of that stuff. Oh yeah and he also doesn't take Pathfinder questions. I know this thread is called the DnD lore thread but why shouldn't it also be about Pathfinder too?

A lot of this should probably be in the OP. Edited.


It varies:


Chaotic Evil beings end up in the Abyss, and if they worshipped a Demon Prince they will usually turn up on that Prince's layer. If not they end up on the 1st layer, wherein Pazuzu's servants may or may not gut them for sport. If they survive, they can attempt to navigate the 1st layer's portals to see if they can find their patron's realm.
CE creatures that worship a deity end up directly in that deity's realm upon death. In Lolth's case, any evil-aligned Drow that worships her ends up in the Demonweb Pits in the Abyss.
NE characters go to whereever their deity is, as Yugoloths don't garner worship the way Demons and Devils do. If the petitioner has no deity, they end up in the Bleak Eternities or an equally appropriate realm.
LE characters go straight to Baator. Do not pass the Gods, do not collect 50 Evil Points. All LE petitioners end up in Avernus, the 1st layer, and are sorted by the Baatezu into where they go.
If a LE soul would go to a deity, the Baatezu put the petitioner on a boat and ship them down the Stix to whatever lower plane the petitioner belongs on (in Kurtlumak's, Tiamat's, and Set's cases this means just being transported to another layer of Hell, or taking a hike across Avernus to get to the Dragon Queen).
People who are in a Faustian Pact or who worship one of the Archdevils end up undergoing the process to become a Lemure, and once that's done they are shipped off to wherever they belong in the Hierarchy.
A final group, who bargained a Faustian Pact and escaped the contract (by not becoming LE upon death) are judged by the Pit Fiends. If they can't reach a proper verdict, the soul is sent to Dis or Cania and kept in a "prison" until either a verdict is reached (usually by outside intervention from an Inevitable or an adventuring party) or until the victim converts. The safest option is Cania, as Levistus' "prison" is cryostasis.
In Eberron, nothing specific happens unless an Evil Outsider directly intervenes and takes your soul after death. Evil characters go to either Dolurrh or to the Silver Flame (the latter requires you to worship it to end up a part of it). Once in Dolurrh the soul starts gradually losing its memories and will to do anything.
In Faerun you either follow the above (non-Eberron) rules or you end up in the Wall, which sucks.


It's important to note that unlike the other soul journeys, souls joining with the Flame hasn't actually been proved.

In FR, you have to worship a deity or you get stuck in the Wall. However, demons and devils reproduce by stealing from the Wall. You don't go to their realm or the Abyss on your own.

[Karnith]

It varies:
In addition to all of that, Dragonlance handles the afterlife very... differently. As part of the DL cosmology, spirits of the dead travel through the River of Souls as part of the cycle of life and death. On the way, they go through the Hall of Souls Passing, where Chemosh (the resident god of death) gets his chance to snatch up souls who served evil gods in life, who were evil in life, or who did not believe in the gods (also, the very foolish). Chemosh delivers the souls of mortal servants of the evil gods to their divine masters in the Abyss (note that the DL Abyss is very, very different compared to other D&D versions). When dealing with other evil souls and with faithless individuals, Chemosh can either entice them into his service, or trick them and throw them into the Abyss.

Good and neutral deities can bless souls, even evil souls or those who don't believe in the gods, before they enter the Hall of Soul's Passing to protect them from this fate. Souls of the innocent, such as infants, are also protected. Mortals who "had learned life's lessons" can resist his temptations, as well. What exactly this means is unclear, though given how DL deals with alignment it's probably just "they weren't evil."

[123456789blaaa]

At the beginning of time, Zon-Kuthon was known as Dou-Bral, a good deity who shared the portfolio of beauty, love and the arts with his half-sister Shelyn. Dou-Bral abandoned Golarion for the dark places between the planes, though, and was tormented there and possessed by an alien being. Upon returning to reality, Dou-Bral as he had been known was gone, replaced with the twisted, malevolent soul known as Zon-Kuthon.

This is from the Wiki entry of the Pathfinder diety Zon-Kuthon (duh :smalltongue:). I bring this up because I actually have an idea as to which alien being it was: Tharizdun.

Think about it. Tharizdun is accociated with Darkness (which is in ZK's portfolio and domains as well). Tharizdun's corruption of the Queen of Air and Darkness (through his gem that was given to her) seems to be similar as well:


The Queen of Air and Darkness is the ruler of the Unseelie+Faerie+Court in Pandemonium, a court of twisted, evil elves, fey, and undead. An invisible husk of a being, she is driven to drive the Seelie+Court and the fey into darkness and destruction, leaving only the shells of their bodies remaining.

Once upon a time, the Queen was a princess of Ladinion, the original home of the fey. When her sister Titania was away, a group of dwarves presented her with a mysterious, ten-faceted black diamond as a well-intentioned gift. The gem, thought now to have been created by the dark god Tharizdun, corrupted the queen and destroyed Ladinion, forcing the Seelie+Court to become the wandering thing it is today.


It's not really a theory as much as an interesting thought. Anyone have any comments?

[peacenlove]

My vote actually goes for Faerun's 13 Shadowkings. They are alien enough, predating the creation of Realmspace, want to plunge Creation into darkness, there was a novel detailing how one of them possesed a human, so they are into this. Also they are confined into a prison dimension by Gond so there is that.
Only thing against them is the lack of BDSM theme.

Lastly I want them to play a bigger role than Shar's underused lackeys.

[Khedrac]

This is from the Wiki entry of the Pathfinder diety Zon-Kuthon (duh :smalltongue:). I bring this up because I actually have an idea as to which alien being it was: Tharizdun.
Sorry, doesn't work - Pathfinder uses a totally different cosmology to Dungeons and Dragons so Tharizdun and Zon-Kuthos cannot by canon interact.
(Little matter of Copyright and Trademarks and intellectual property etc.)
Pathfinder contains nothing of D&D that's not in the SRD - all personal names have been removed from the SRD so Tharizdun simply is not part of the Pathfinder universe.

[123456789blaaa]

Anyone have any favorite obscure DnD/Pathfinder gods and monsters?


My vote actually goes for Faerun's 13 Shadowkings. They are alien enough, predating the creation of Realmspace, want to plunge Creation into darkness, there was a novel detailing how one of them possesed a human, so they are into this. Also they are confined into a prison dimension by Gond so there is that.
Only thing against them is the lack of BDSM theme.

Lastly I want them to play a bigger role than Shar's underused lackeys.

When I search for "shadowkings", I only find this guy (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Larloch)and this guy (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/King_of_Shadows). Can I get a link to the 13 shadowkings?


Sorry, doesn't work - Pathfinder uses a totally different cosmology to Dungeons and Dragons so Tharizdun and Zon-Kuthos cannot by canon interact.
(Little matter of Copyright and Trademarks and intellectual property etc.)
Pathfinder contains nothing of D&D that's not in the SRD - all personal names have been removed from the SRD so Tharizdun simply is not part of the Pathfinder universe.

While they aren't "officially" connected, the Pathfinderverse and DnDverse share a LOT in common:

http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Asmodeus

http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Baphomet

http://www.pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Orcus

I could go on but I think you get the idea. There are differences but a ton of the characters are basically the same. It's not a stretch at all to connect the two.

"Theories" I suggest for TTRPG's are basically ideas for people to use in their own gameworlds. I'm not trying to suggest it's what the designers will go with. That's the difference between when I suggest theories for TTRPG's and other forms of fiction.

[peacenlove]

When I search for "shadowkings", I only find this guy (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Larloch)and this guy (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/King_of_Shadows). Can I get a link to the 13 shadowkings?



They were richly detailed in 2nd edition books, namely a paragraph in faiths and avatars.

After Lord Ao created Realmspace, there was a period of timeless nothingness, a misty realm of shadows before light and dark were separate entities. Within this dim chaos stalked 13 Shadowkings, progenitors of shadow magic and children of the Plane of Shadows itself.
The Shadowkings were amoral travelers who preferred night to blinding light and who stalked the Realms seeking to meld light and dark into shadowy chaos once again. They shared Shar’s plans and motivation; however Shar's plot to reform the world after her own desires was undone when Azuth, the High One found a way to imprison the Shadowkings in a pocket-sized crystal sphere located beyond the edges of the world by creating the illusion of a realm of shadows. The Lords of Shadow were drawn to investigate, and before they discovered the trick, Azuth imprisoned the Shadowkings with the Shadowstar, a key of shadows forged by Gond. The High Lord then hurled the key into the endless reaches of the cosmos allowing life to flourish on in Chauntea's loving hands.
From the Wiki:

Shar brooded for aeons, striking against her sister whenever she saw the opportunity but unlike Selûne, Shar did not have allies. At least, not until she was courted by the shadevari - 13 chaotic lords of shadow who had witnessed the births of Shar and Selûne and much preferred Shar's ideal of a realm of darkness. They helped her grow stronger but then Azuth sealed her allies away in another crystal sphere, foiling her plans.

[Brookshw]

Huh, the only time I used FR was in 2e and I don't think I ever came across these guys. Thanks for mentioning them :smallsmile:

[123456789blaaa]

You know...considering how diverse the Planescape/DnD universe is, would their really be much racism (the RL kind) or homo/trans phobia? I mean, when you're next to a literal embodiment-of-evil scaly demon on one side and a sapient blob of acidic ooze on the other, is that kind of environment really conductive to prejudice towards others of your own species? I'm not sure...?

[afroakuma]

Afro and his thread are extremely good. Heck, I'm the second most frequent poster in the thread besides Afro himself. However, he assumes Planescape when it comes to questions

Which usually means you get a better/actual answer as opposed to working with the undetailed planes of FR, for instance. :smalltongue:


he's almost never interested in breaking down sources

No no: never. Never interested. I have university for demanding tedious citation work of me. If it's something quick then I don't mind directing people in the right direction, but if it's an actual challenge to the veracity of my research, I'm not going to go back and do it twice to satisfy someone who's already gotten their question answered.


and sometimes he simply won't answer or gets sick of answering some questions.

Yes, you do annoy me that much. :smalltongue:


He's not interested in debates either.

Again not true; I'm just not interested in debates with you, most of he time. :smalltongue: And I'll remind you that I have had them regardless.

I still handle all D&D lore, including things that don't fit the Great Wheel cosmology and things which have nothing to do with Planescape, provided that it's not a crunch question. You're right that I don't cover Pathfinder, nor 4E, and I won't, full stop. As for the rest, see above. Don't scare people off from my thread just because you're a nuisance when it comes to slime gods. :smalltongue:


It varies:

This list has a serious error: it omits four further destinations for evil souls. Technically more but I'm sticking with four. Evil souls can also end up in Acheron, Gehenna, Carceri or Pandemonium naturally. They don't need to go through one of the big three first or be aligned to a deity to reach these planes.

[Alleran]

They were richly detailed in 2nd edition books, namely a paragraph in faiths and avatars.

From the Wiki:
Hang on, was Azuth engaging in some time travel? That paragraph seems unclear.

Azuth was a mortal who ascended on the sponsorship of Mystra (and was the first Magister/a former Chosen). This was long after the formless nothingness. After life began under/on Toril and under Chauntea's guidance. Azuth didn't even exist way back in the pre-Toril period of Realmspace, unless he used a time travel spell to go back and change history to allow life to begin/flourish, thereby producing him (allowing him to go back and ensure that history happened as it needed to), creating a stable time loop.

Well, Mystra/Mystryl does watch over the Time portfolio, I suppose.

[asnys]

Can anyone recommend a good source on the (Demi)Plane of Shadows that goes into more detail than the 3E Manual of the Planes? 1E, 2E, or 3E.

[peacenlove]

Hang on, was Azuth engaging in some time travel? That paragraph seems unclear.

Azuth was a mortal who ascended on the sponsorship of Mystra (and was the first Magister/a former Chosen). This was long after the formless nothingness. After life began under/on Toril and under Chauntea's guidance. Azuth didn't even exist way back in the pre-Toril period of Realmspace, unless he used a time travel spell to go back and change history to allow life to begin/flourish, thereby producing him (allowing him to go back and ensure that history happened as it needed to), creating a stable time loop.

Well, Mystra/Mystryl does watch over the Time portfolio, I suppose.

Azuth binding the Shadowkings is a recent event. Don't remember details but it was shortly before the Time of Troubles. And yes that paragraph doesn't specify this but the novel describing them took place then so...


Can anyone recommend a good source on the (Demi)Plane of Shadows that goes into more detail than the 3E Manual of the Planes? 1E, 2E, or 3E.

The city of Balefire in Dragon Magazine 318 describes a planar metropolis in that plane.
Tome of Magic describes creatures, adventures and many related information about the Plane.
Planar Handbook should have some info too.

[afroakuma]

Can anyone recommend a good source on the (Demi)Plane of Shadows that goes into more detail than the 3E Manual of the Planes? 1E, 2E, or 3E.

Come to the other thread with specific questions and I'll be glad to help you out.

[asnys]

The city of Balefire in Dragon Magazine 318 describes a planar metropolis in that plane.
Tome of Magic describes creatures, adventures and many related information about the Plane.
Planar Handbook should have some info too.


Come to the other thread with specific questions and I'll be glad to help you out.

Thanks. :smallsmile:

[Clistenes]

Since Afroakuma hates so much when we ask him about sourcebooks, could you people help me find all the sourcebooks that give us information about the Far Realms and Dreamheart/Plane of Dreams (the Great Wheel version, not not Dal Quor).

[afroakuma]

Oh for the love of Pete, how many questions here are going to start with "Since Afro..." or "Because Afro..." :smallsigh:

Sources involving the Far Realm (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Far_Realm#Bibliography)

Sources involving the Region of Dreams (http://www.planewalker.com/encyclopedia/region-dreams)

I told you there weren't many. Nightmare Lands isn't even a good citation. Dragon # 287 has alternative ideas for dream planes, but they're substitutions for the canonical one as detailed in the Manual of the Planes, which simply does not have much information linked to it.

[Clistenes]

Oh for the love of Pete, how many questions here are going to start with "Since Afro..." or "Because Afro..." :smallsigh:

Well, this thread is basically and adjunct for things that don't fit in your thread.



Sources involving the Far Realm (http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Far_Realm#Bibliography)

Sources involving the Region of Dreams (http://www.planewalker.com/encyclopedia/region-dreams)

I told you there weren't many. Nightmare Lands isn't even a good citation. Dragon # 287 has alternative ideas for dream planes, but they're substitutions for the canonical one as detailed in the Manual of the Planes, which simply does not have much information linked to it.

Thank you very much, Afro.

[123456789blaaa]

Which usually means you get a better/actual answer as opposed to working with the undetailed planes of FR, for instance. :smalltongue:



No no: never. Never interested. I have university for demanding tedious citation work of me. If it's something quick then I don't mind directing people in the right direction, but if it's an actual challenge to the veracity of my research, I'm not going to go back and do it twice to satisfy someone who's already gotten their question answered.



Yes, you do annoy me that much. :smalltongue:



Again not true; I'm just not interested in debates with you, most of he time. :smalltongue: And I'll remind you that I have had them regardless.

I still handle all D&D lore, including things that don't fit the Great Wheel cosmology and things which have nothing to do with Planescape, provided that it's not a crunch question. You're right that I don't cover Pathfinder, nor 4E, and I won't, full stop. As for the rest, see above. Don't scare people off from my thread just because you're a nuisance when it comes to slime gods. :smalltongue:



This list has a serious error: it omits four further destinations for evil souls. Technically more but I'm sticking with four. Evil souls can also end up in Acheron, Gehenna, Carceri or Pandemonium naturally. They don't need to go through one of the big three first or be aligned to a deity to reach these planes.

What better way to attract customers than to slander my opponents product? :smalltongue:

I'll make changes. One thing though:


Again not true; I'm just not interested in debates with you, most of he time. :smalltongue: And I'll remind you that I have had them regardless.

What I mean is the huge thread clogging debates with 10 split quotes and replying to each individually. While you engage in the smaller ones, I'd think you'd dislike those that are in the vein of a certain someone from the first APQ thread. I'm trying to get that across but having trouble with the phrasing.

EDIT: Changes made.

[Findpathfencer]

What is the most powerful monster or thing in pathfinder and dnd

[Findpathfencer]

Well this is dead