Mundanes defeating magic

[Cybris75]

Hello playground,

I'm pondering homebrewing some feats to give martial characters some options to defend against magic.
I've been thinking about some obvious defenses against spells, but before I introduce new options, I want to check the vast existing options in 3.5 so that I don't invent something that has been done before.

My question is, which feats, rules or class features enable a character to do the following:

- block a ray with a shield
- block a ray with a weapon
- evade a ray (besides AC)
- redirect a ray
- block an emanation with a shield
- evade an emanation (besides evasion and mettle)
- negate a magical effect (besides mettle and iron heart surge)
- let a magical effect backfire on the caster
- prevent a caster from casting (besides readied actions and mageslayer feats)
- negate touch attacks (besides readied actions and high AC)

[mabriss lethe]

There are some useful things that already exist.

-Mage Slayer feat line from Complete Arcane.

-Tome of Battle has several options. The Diamond Mind Discipline has maneuvers that will let you replace each of your saves with a concentration check. Ironheart has the infamous Ironheart surge which can negate a lot of magical effects, and it also has Wall of Blades, which allows you to effectively parry an incoming attack, even something like a ranged touch attack.

-Tome of Magic has the 5 level Witch Slayer PrC. Its capstone ability allows you to subject a foe to the effects of an antimagic field 1/5 rounds. It also has a monk PrC called Disciple of the Word that would let you replace saves with a Truename skill check. Though I wouldn't recommend it for many reasons.

-There are a couple of feats that will let you add your shield bonus to touch AC, but I forget where they're at. Edit to add: Parrying Shield from Lords of Madness will let you add your shield bonus (+ enhancements) to touch AC. Shield Ward in PHB2 does the same thing along with additional effects but has higher prerequisites.

Edit: Because I'm dumb and didn't pay enough attention to the OP before I started writing.

[Maginomicon]

You could change the nature of saving throws to make them gradual defenses instead of binary defenses (if you're curious, I'll elaborate).

You could also homebrew that any metal masterwork shield is mirrored and thus provides the benefits of the spell deflection rogue ACF.

[Silva Stormrage]

Well, its chesesy but Martial Monk lets you take any fighter bonus feat without qualifying for the prerequisites. This includes epic feats. Exceptional Deflection and Infinite Deflection would certainly be good at deflecting rays and the like.

[Curmudgeon]

You could also homebrew that any metal masterwork shield is mirrored and thus provides the benefits of the spell deflection rogue ACF.
Spell Reflection is available to Monk, Ranger, Rogue, or Scout; it replaces evasion. And we've got a mirrored shield in the RAW already:
Reflecting

This shield seems like a mirror. Its surface is completely reflective. Once per day, it can be called on to reflect a spell back at its caster exactly like the spell turning spell.

[Ortesk]

Hello playground,

I'm pondering homebrewing some feats to give martial characters some options to defend against magic.
I've been thinking about some obvious defenses against spells, but before I introduce new options, I want to check the vast existing options in 3.5 so that I don't invent something that has been done before.

My question is, which feats, rules or class features enable a character to do the following:

- block a ray with a shield
- block a ray with a weapon
- evade a ray (besides AC)
- redirect a ray
- block an emanation with a shield
- evade an emanation (besides evasion and mettle)
- negate a magical effect (besides mettle and iron heart surge)
- let a magical effect backfire on the caster
- prevent a caster from casting (besides readied actions and mageslayer feats)
- negate touch attacks (besides readied actions and high AC)

Its not really a feat, but a certain spell can do all that. Just have a cleric cast it on you, make it permanent, and honestly you shouldnt have an issue with mages

[Morithias]

Create Device from Legacy of blood. It lets you make mundane versions of magical items.

Dm: He puts up an anti-magic field.

Mage: I casually disjunction it.

Dm: It doesn't work.

Mage: what?

DM: That anti-magic field is generated via a mundane device, your disjunction effect only ends MAGICAL effects.

[Ortesk]

Create Device from Legacy of blood. It lets you make mundane versions of magical items.

Dm: He puts up an anti-magic field.

Mage: I casually disjunction it.

Dm: It doesn't work.

Mage: what?

DM: That anti-magic field is generated via a mundane device, your disjunction effect only ends MAGICAL effects.

You can dysjunction AMF? Lear something new daily

[Morithias]

You can dysjunction AMF? Lear something new daily

I thought you could, or there was some spell that did it.

I think you can disjunction it form the outside of it at least.

[Ortesk]

I thought you could, or there was some spell that did it.

I think you can disjunction it form the outside of it at least.

Doesnt AMF create a dead zone for magic though? I know a chosen of mystra cleric could pull it off, or iron heart surge it.

[Frog Dragon]

AMF:s aren't dead magic zones. Actually, you can even block the line of effect of an AMF while still in it. This is what the shrink item lead hat wizard strategy is based on (AMF unshrinks lead hat, hat falls and surrounds wizard, AMF line of effect broken, wizard is free to cast in the safety of his lead cone).

[Killer Angel]

You can dysjunction AMF? Lear something new daily

Yes, but you only have a chance of success. "You also have a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field"

it's right in the spell's description. :smallwink:

[Kelb_Panthera]

Disjunction has a chance of breaking through AMF, it's uncertain though.

RAW, it should be equally effective on the mundane AMF since the effects of disjunction vs AMF are listed specifically in disjunction's description, as opposed to it being covered by the general disruption of magical effects described before it.

[Ortesk]

Yes, but you only have a chance of success. "You also have a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field"

it's right in the spell's description. :smallwink:

Ah, well i did say i learned something new :P My mages dont live long...falling rocks and stuff. I never get the shiny spells

[Ailurus]

Check the Shield Ward feat in PHB2 - it lets you add your shield AC bonus to a whole host of things, including your touch AC.

[Morithias]

Disjunction has a chance of breaking through AMF, it's uncertain though.

RAW, it should be equally effective on the mundane AMF since the effects of disjunction vs AMF are listed specifically in disjunction's description, as opposed to it being covered by the general disruption of magical effects described before it.

I would argue that although it may destroy the anti-magic, field, the generator would not be destroyed.

There's also the problem of the spell's area.

"Area: All magical effects and magic items within a 40-ft.-radius burst"

RAW, it has no effect on mundane items.

[Brookshw]

If the percentage killed the amf it would then nuke the items (forget, will save for attended I believe). Item would survive, just wouldn't be magic.

[Morithias]

If the percentage killed the amf it would then nuke the items (forget, will save for attended I believe). Item would survive, just wouldn't be magic.

Create Device.

The items aren't magical to BEGIN with.

[Brookshw]

What book is that? Don't think I've heard of create device before.

[Ruethgar]

The book was already stated in the original mention of Create Device, it is Legacy of Blood from Ravenloft.

Technically Lucid Dreaming is a mundane way to break everything in the game and could counter wizards. It is like an infinite free wish machine(if you think creatively enough) that also puts you in x10 time plane so your are more deadly than a cheesed incantrix with a metamagic time stop or an STP Erudite with access to a Chameleon.

[ImaDeadMan]

Hello playground,

I'm pondering homebrewing some feats to give martial characters some options to defend against magic.
I've been thinking about some obvious defenses against spells, but before I introduce new options, I want to check the vast existing options in 3.5 so that I don't invent something that has been done before.

My question is, which feats, rules or class features enable a character to do the following:

- block a ray with a shield
- block a ray with a weapon
- evade a ray (besides AC)
- redirect a ray
- block an emanation with a shield
- evade an emanation (besides evasion and mettle)
- negate a magical effect (besides mettle and iron heart surge)
- let a magical effect backfire on the caster
- prevent a caster from casting (besides readied actions and mageslayer feats)
- negate touch attacks (besides readied actions and high AC)

So as far as deflecting and redirecting rays, mundane characters can prestige as Arcanopath Monks from the Dragon Compendium. These monks get "Deflect Spell (Su): At 4th level, the arcanopath monk learns to deflect incoming ray and energy missile spells. The arcanopath must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this ability. Once per round when the arcanopath would normally be hit with a ray or energy missile spell the character can make a DC 20 Reflex saving throw (if the ray or energy missile has a magical bonus to attack, the DC increases by that amount). If the arcanopath succeeds, he deflects the spell. The arcanopath must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Attempting to deflect a ray or energy missile doesn't count as an action.
A ray is a spell that produces a ray effect.
An energy missile is a weaponlike spell that produces something physical that the spell projects or the caster can hurl, such as Melf's acid arrow or produceflame. Fireball, magic missile, and the like are not energy missiles."

[Psyren]

Create Device from Legacy of blood. It lets you make mundane versions of magical items.

What book is that? My searches keep leading me to the Diablo novel and I doubt you mean that.

EDIT: Oh, 3rd party from the Ravenloft creators.

[Menzath]

well as far as touch AC,
Shield Specialization(PH2) + Shield Ward(PH2) +shield Parry(LoM).
Your shields bonus is one higher and applies to your touch AC... Twice.
Meele Evasion lets you use an attack roll as your AC (Also PH2)

And from CWar their is a class called Occult Slayer that allows you to Re-bound spells and some other effects.

Edit: me type gud, mis-named feat