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QuixTen
2013-11-08, 05:33 PM
I have altered the template fairly drastically, and made it into a full class. For posterity, I have preserved the original post here:

I'd like to get some feedback on a template I've been working on. Any feedback would be welcome. The idea is a character who has an in-born gift for magic like a sorcerer, but instead of just winging it, they take pains to study magic like a wizard does, and gains versatility as a result. I especially need ideas for drawbacks, because sorcerers are already crazy powerful even with their abysmal versatility.

Template: The Studious Sorcerer

Prerequisites:

Any non-Lawful
Any spontaneous casting class, bard excluded
A spellbook
Scribe Scroll

Description:

A Studious Sorcerer (or Favored Soul/Spirit Shaman/etc) is a spontaneous caster who supplements his natural magical prowess with inquisitive study. After taking this template, the caster no longer gains spells per level as he usually would. Instead, at each level, he chooses one spell of each level that he can cast, and makes an Intelligence (or Wisdom, if the base class casts Divine spells) check against a DC of 15 + the spell's level. If he succeeds, he learns the spell, and if not, he chooses another spell of that level and rolls again. If after 3 attempts, he has failed to learn a spell of that level, he learns no spells of that level until he next levels up. Carrying a scroll of the spell he is trying to learn, or having copied the spell into a spellbook that he carries with him adds a +4 circumstance bonus to this check, however, any other bonuses, such as bonuses from magic items, do not apply.

Instead of calculating spells-per-day by the usual method for the base class, a character with this template gains one spell-per-day for each spell of that level that he knows, plus his Charisma modifier.

Because a Studious Sorcerer spends almost all his time mastering the magic that suffuses his soul, his physical abilities gradually atrophy. He loses a single weapon proficiency feat at every level until he is left proficient with only simple weapons (and, if applicable, his deity's favored weapon). If he wishes to keep a weapon proficiency feat beyond this, he may do so at the cost of losing a spell of a level equal to or greater than that indicated by the following list according to class level (multiclass characters add all spontaneous casting class levels besides bard together):

Levels 1-4: Lose a 1st level or higher spell
Levels 5-8: Lose a 2nd level or higher spell
Levels 9-12: Lose a 3rd level or higher spell
Levels 13-16: Lose a 4th level or higher spell
Levels 17-20: Lose a 5th level or higher spell

Alternatively, he may give up a feat, if he is a level at which he gains a new feat. Either way, one of these sacrifices must be made every level if he wishes to keep a weapon proficiency besides Simple indefinitely. This sacrifice is done before the Studious Sorcerer learns his new spell(s) for that level, so he may attempt to relearn the same spell immediately. Any attempt to learn a spell that the character already knew, but lost as a result of this sacrifice, is treated as if the Studious Sorcerer possesses a scroll or spellbook with the spell (+4 circumstance bonus to the INT/WIS check)

A Mystic Theurge who takes this template gains spells for both of his casting classes separately, but in the same way, and he loses two weapon proficiencies per level instead of one, and must give up two spells (both arcane, both divine, or one of each type) or one feat and one spell in order to keep a chosen proficiency.

New post follows:

Alright, second try. I've converted it to an actual class rather than a template. Also, no more divine spells, no more complete reliance on the dice gods, and no more relying on leveling up to gain spells. Also also, that constant danger of losing weapon proficiencies was bad, so I've changed it.

Class: The Mage

Alignment: Any neutral (Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Good, or Neutral Evil). A mage is first and foremost concerned with study. They cannot be too invested in too many causes apart from that.

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills:

The mage's class skills are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at 1st level: (2 + INT) x 4
Skill Points at Each Subsequent Level: 2 + INT

Description:

A naturally gifted user of magic drawn to the world of academic study, the mage combines the versatility of a wizard and the spontaneity of a sorcerer. Requiring both a deep intellect and a cunning wit, the path of the mage is for few to take.

Spells Known:

The mage draws his spells from the wizard spell list. When he levels up, he gains a number of study points equal to 1d4 times half his caster level. He may spend these points to learn spells, with any one spell costing a number of points equal to its spell level. He may also gain one study point by performing an hour of study either directly before or directly after he sleeps or trances. When he wishes to learn a spell, he designates the spell he is endeavoring to learn, and thenceforth must spend his hour's study time on committing the spell to memory, successfully learning the spell after a number of study sessions (and therefore days) equal to its spell level. Study sessions do not reward study points while the mage is thus endeavoring to learn a specific spell. Additionally, he may learn up to two spells of any level that he can cast, instantly on leveling up, but he must still pay the study point cost. When he does this, it is assumed that he has been studying those spells in anticipation of being able to cast them. The mage starts play knowing all cantrips (0th level spells) and two 1st level spells.

Spells-per-day:

The mage casts spells as a sorcerer, casting any spell he knows at any time, but is only able to cast a certain number of spells in each spell level per day. The number of spells he may cast of each level per day is equal to the number of spells of that level that he knows. Additionally, if he has learned all the spells of a particular level that he can, he may increase his number of spells-per-day of that level by one, by spending a number of study points and a number of daily study sessions, both equal to double that spell level.

Armor and Weapon Proficiencies:

Mages are proficient in only simple weapons, and no armor. Their dedication to magical study is so in-depth that they may not take a Weapon or Armor Proficiency feat without spending an initial 5 study points when they take the feat, and an additional 2 study points every level thereafter for five levels, for a total of 15 study points.

Book Bond:

A mage has no familiar. Instead, he cultivates an emotional attachment to his own spellbook. Pick a single familiar in the list of familiars. Whenever his spellbook is on his person, he gains all the benefits a familiar of that type would provide at his level. If his spellbook is destroyed or lost, he loses 200 experience points per mage level, as well as two spells of each level that he can cast, as well as taking 2 points of Constitution damage that cannot be repaired by any means. He also loses all study points he has accumulated, resetting them to zero. If it is lost but not destroyed, finding it again restores all spells and experience he lost when he lost the spellbook. However, the Constitution damage repairs at a rate of 1 point per 1d6 days, after which he returns to normal. His study points do not return, but when he next studies after relocating his spellbook, a number of study points equal to one half of the number that he originally lost are given to him instead of the single point he would otherwise gain.

Bonus Languages: None, but the mage can spend five study points to learn a new language. He must designate this language and spend the study points beforehand, and when he next levels up he adds the language to the list of languages he knows.

Scribe Scroll: A mage gains Scribe Scroll at 1st level.

Bonus Feats: A mage gains a bonus feat at level 5, and at every 5 levels thereafter. He may use this to gain a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Intuit Spell.

Intuit Spell
Prerequisites: Mage
Benefit: Designate a single spell that you do not know but which you could potentially cast. Spend study points and add it to your list of spells as if you had been studying it. This feat may be taken multiple times. This feat cannot be used to learn Epic spells.

EDIT: Added another penalty to losing your spellbook

GranAures
2013-11-08, 06:37 PM
Okay, to make sure I have this right: A 20th level character doing this would
Negative: Be stuck with simple weapons only(+1 on favored souls)(Favor Divine)
Negative: Basically be stuck with whatever spells they can purchase/find/bum off the wizard/archivist/death master do to the Int/Wis check(Favor Divine because many spontaneous divine caster still need their wisdom for something)
Positive: Have up to: 20 Cantrips/Orisons 20+Cha times/day(do 20 even exist?)
20 1st level spells 20+Cha times/day
17 2nd level spells 17+Cha times/day
15 3rd level spells 15+Cha times/day
13 4th level spells 13+Cha times/day
11 5th level spells 11+Cha times/day
09 6th level spells 09+Cha times/day
07 7th level spells 07+Cha times/day
05 8th level spells 05+Cha times/day
03 9th level spells 03+Cha times/day

If I have that correct, it seems like a very bad trade. Now I assumed the high end of things but you can have the opposite end as well, a +2 modifier in Int/Wis can feasibly be a +7 by 20th so you got your low spells(0-3) running a +2 modifier your 4th and 5th at a +4 6th-8th a +6 and 9th a +7 when you start getting them meaning you average necesary rolls are going to be
0: 13/9
1: 14/10
2: 15/11
3: 16/12
4: 15/11
5: 16/12
6: 15/11
7: 16/12
8: 17/13
9: 17/13
and that's with sub-optimal gear drops/purchases to invest in your "learning stat."

Thinking on it: that was extremely disjointed so let me sum up my point: It's a nice idea, heck I love the idea reminds me of an idea I had for playing a Spellthief(2)/Battle Sorcerer/Daggerspell that learned his Sorcerer spells from the spells he stole. However, it's just to sporadic currently jumping from excessive magical output to worthless mageling all by the whim of a few d20s and scroll availability.

QuixTen
2013-11-08, 08:15 PM
That's the idea, yeah. I was thinking about allowing the character to learn spells during normal play like wizards can, without having to level first, but even with the dice rolling to determine success, that would lead to a Mystic Theurge being able to cast all the spells in both the Cleric and Sorcerer spell list spontaneously, and at a ridiculous number of SPD by level 22, which would be horribly OP.

I do have another idea though. Scrap the first idea for spells known and spells per day. What if when assigning nth level spells on a level-up, a character gets a roll of a single d20 + INT + Scroll/Spellbook bonus. That roll determines whether he learns the chosen spell. If the roll fails, he can try again up to a total of 3 times, as before. BUT, if he gets a crit on any of the rolls, say the crit range is x to 20, where x is 20 minus his CHA, he learns the spell and gets to roll again to try to learn another spell, and if he crits again, he gets another one, up to a max that equals a quarter of his Intelligence score (not the modifier). Then you get spells-per-day as a sorcerer normally does OR by the method described in my original post, whichever is the greater number, to a maximum of 12 spells-per-day-per-spell-level.

Of course, the whole build relies on a character who has both high Charisma and high Intelligence (and/or Wisdom), so it's definitely not a "get really powerful really quick" thing, and you need more than one dump stat, which is a pretty big flaw to take.

GranAures
2013-11-08, 09:11 PM
I would recommend thinking a little smaller, otherwise no matter what you do you'll have a monster on your hands, because a (potentially) massive list of spells that can all be cast spontaneously a (potentially) massive number of times per day is going to far outweigh any Str/Dex/Con dumping in the long run and even if the character is generated off of good rolls.

Much smaller scale(but still varied)idea for ya: Just double the spells known entries on the class table(except for cantrips/orisons)
For a straight sorcerer that's a spells known of:
9/10/10/8/8/8/6/6/6 not quite wizard level knowledge but more than potent in a spontaneous caster's hands even at the base spells per day, leaving them far more likely to have a spell for the job and the room to take a far more balanced approach to their spell selection.
Potential mitigation: Allow the caster to learn the first few spells of each level (and all cantrips) for free by natural insight into their magic but all the other slots need to be filled in during down time with the Int/Wis check, each check requires a day. Possibly make the caster study their spell book during meditation to brush up on their non-innate spells, leaving them dependent on their extremely atrophied natural magic if they ever lose it

QuixTen
2013-11-08, 10:31 PM
Alright, second try. I've converted it to an actual class rather than a template. Also, no more divine spells, no more complete reliance on the dice gods, and no more relying on leveling up to gain spells. Also also, that constant danger of losing weapon proficiencies was bad, so I've changed it.

Class: The Mage

Alignment: Any neutral (Lawful Neutral, Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Good, or Neutral Evil). A mage is first and foremost concerned with study. They cannot be too invested in too many causes apart from that.

Hit Die: d4

Class Skills:

The mage's class skills are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at 1st level: (2 + INT) x 4
Skill Points at Each Subsequent Level: 2 + INT

Description:

A naturally gifted user of magic drawn to the world of academic study, the mage combines the versatility of a wizard and the spontaneity of a sorcerer. Requiring both a deep intellect and a cunning wit, the path of the mage is for few to take.

Spells Known:

The mage draws his spells from the wizard spell list. When he levels up, he gains a number of study points equal to 1d4 times half his caster level. He may spend these points to learn spells, with any one spell costing a number of points equal to its spell level. He may also gain one study point by performing an hour of study either directly before or directly after he sleeps or trances. When he wishes to learn a spell, he designates the spell he is endeavoring to learn, and thenceforth must spend his hour's study time on committing the spell to memory, successfully learning the spell after a number of study sessions (and therefore days) equal to its spell level. Study sessions do not reward study points while the mage is thus endeavoring to learn a specific spell. Additionally, he may learn up to two spells of any level that he can cast, instantly on leveling up, but he must still pay the study point cost. When he does this, it is assumed that he has been studying those spells in anticipation of being able to cast them. The mage starts play knowing all cantrips (0th level spells) and two 1st level spells.

Spells-per-day:

The mage casts spells as a sorcerer, casting any spell he knows at any time, but is only able to cast a certain number of spells in each spell level per day. The number of spells he may cast of each level per day is equal to the number of spells of that level that he knows. Additionally, if he has learned all the spells of a particular level that he can, he may increase his number of spells-per-day of that level by one, by spending a number of study points and a number of daily study sessions, both equal to double that spell level.

Armor and Weapon Proficiencies:

Mages are proficient in only simple weapons, and no armor. Their dedication to magical study is so in-depth that they may not take a Weapon or Armor Proficiency feat without spending an initial 5 study points when they take the feat, and an additional 2 study points every level thereafter for five levels, for a total of 15 study points.

Book Bond:

A mage has no familiar. Instead, he cultivates an emotional attachment to his own spellbook. Pick a single familiar in the list of familiars. Whenever his spellbook is on his person, he gains all the benefits a familiar of that type would provide at his level. If his spellbook is destroyed or lost, he loses 200 experience points per mage level, as well as two spells of each level that he can cast, as well as taking 2 points of Constitution damage that cannot be repaired by any means. He also loses all study points he has accumulated, resetting them to zero. If it is lost but not destroyed, finding it again restores all spells and experience he lost when he lost the spellbook. However, the Constitution damage repairs at a rate of 1 point per 1d6 days, after which he returns to normal. His study points do not return, but when he next studies after relocating his spellbook, a number of study points equal to one half of the number that he originally lost are given to him instead of the single point he would otherwise gain.

Bonus Languages: None, but the mage can spend five study points to learn a new language. He must designate this language and spend the study points beforehand, and when he next levels up he adds the language to the list of languages he knows.

Scribe Scroll: A mage gains Scribe Scroll at 1st level.

Bonus Feats: A mage gains a bonus feat at level 5, and at every 5 levels thereafter. He may use this to gain a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Intuit Spell.

Intuit Spell
Prerequisites: Mage
Benefit: Designate a single spell that you do not know but which you could potentially cast. Spend study points and add it to your list of spells as if you had been studying it. This feat may be taken multiple times. This feat cannot be used to learn Epic spells.

EDIT: Added another penalty to losing your spellbook