PF Gunslinger feats, what to do?

[Cranthis]

So, in the pathfinder game I'm participating in, I intend to be a gunslinger. I understand the class and its mechanics, but other than Point Blank, Precise shot, and Rapid Reload, I have no idea what to take. For now we'll consider the character getting between level 15-20 (I'll be starting around level 5 or so).

I intend to be a Vanara for my choice of race.

Any and all help will be appreciated.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I would like to play a Pistalero.

[Spore]

Which weapon and archetype are you choosing? A rifle is different to a smaller firearm because they do less damage but are reloaded indefinitely faster. Which out of combat roles do you have/want to fill out?

[Cranthis]

As stated in the edit, which I guess I put up while you were typing, I'll be doing a Pistolaro, or however its spelled, and I will be using a Pistol of course. As I understand it, out of combat as a Gunslinger doesnt really matter as far as feats go. For now, lets focus on combat things.

[Andrewmoreton]

You want Deadly Aim (Power attack for ranged weapons)
Far shot because it increases the range at which you are dealing touch attacks
If you can get a pepperbox pistol or revolver take rapid shot
Extra Grit if you cannot think of anything else
As a Pistolero consider two weapon fighting tree, pistols are not light weapons but as you are normally target touch ac the penalty is less important
Quick Draw it can be faster to switch between guns than to reload

[Ravens_cry]

Deadly Aim (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-aim-combat) is good, basically power attack for ranged weapons. Add even more damage. It's not like you are going to have a hard time hitting. The Two Weapon Line can be good, especially with revolvers. They do exist in Golarion, in Alkenstar.
Weapon cords ( equipment, not a feat) let (or at least they did) you retrieve a dropped weapon as a swift action. Drop, reload, recover swift, reload free (with rapid reload and alchemical or metal cartridges) drop, reload, recover move. Great with revolvers.

[Spore]

Snap Shot (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/snap-shot-combat) might also be a good idea for a pistolero since he can reload as a free action with Rapid Reload and thus react to AoOs.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Presuming advanced firearms are banded(no revolvers).

You don't want a pepperbox it's a pointless weapon. With rapid-reload and alchemical paper cartridges. Reloading is a regular pistol is a free action which lets you take a full-attack with haste, rapid-reload and all that for the same misfire chance.


Far shot because it increases the range at which you are dealing touch attacks

In PF Far-Shot reduces the range increment penalty(to -1) it doesn't increase the range increments.

[grarrrg]

Weapon cords ( equipment, not a feat) let (or at least they did) you retrieve a dropped weapon as a swift action. Drop, reload, recover swift, reload free (with rapid reload and alchemical or metal cartridges) drop, reload, recover move. Great with revolvers.

No, they FAQ'ed up Weapon Cord (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1gg#v5748eaic9r9l), now it's a Move Action to recover.
All a Cord gets you now is that the weapon cannot be more than 5ft. away from you.

Your only good option for Dual-Pistols now is getting an extra limb (or advanced guns).
Vanaras have a Tail "that she can use to carry objects. She cannot wield weapons with her tail, but the tail allows her to retrieve a small, stowed object carried on her person as a swift action"
It's a Free Action to 'switch hands' with weapons, so conceivably you can still Two-Weapon with pistols as a Vanara, switching one gun to your tail so you have a free hand to reload your other gun.

[Ravens_cry]

Eh, all it means is that you can't take a shot off on your reload turn. TWF still works with revolvers and pepperbox pistols for other races.

[grarrrg]

Eh, all it means is that you can't take a shot off on your reload turn. TWF still works with revolvers and pepperbox pistols for other races.

Pepperboxes don't work for TWF, you still need a free hand
"The entire barrel housing can be quickly rotated by hand between shots (a free action requiring one free hand)"
And revolvers require "modern" firearm rules.

With the nerf to Weapon Cords you are stuck with getting another arm/limb/thing that can hold something, or having a very friendly Wizard friend to cast Reloading Hands twice for you.

[Raven777]

Doesn't Alkenstar have Revolvers regardless of modern firearms rules being in play or not? I'm a bit rusty on my Golarion lore.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

It's... Complicated. In theory they do, though they ain't giving it away. The fluff for the revolver indicates its a pretty advanced weapon, in that firing automatically cycles the cylinder and pulls back the hammer.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Doesn't Alkenstar have Revolvers regardless of modern firearms rules being in play or not? I'm a bit rusty on my Golarion lore.

Well just because its a PF game doesn't mean they'll be anywhere near Alkenstar or even the Golarion campaign setting.

[Raven777]

So? They're PCs. They can just get in, sack the Gunworks, fight the Canon Golem load bearing boss, then get out. Then use their Gunslinger Gunsmith abilities to replicate the thing and whip up their own, setting themselves up for life, because apparently the entirety of Alkenstar itself cannot be assed to produce more than one single unit per day in some sort of unhinged bid for scarcity and monopoly maintenance.

Then on their way back they can make a trip through Thuvia and hijack some Sun Orchid elixir from the Citadel of the Alchemist. Then they can be rich and live forever.

Who wouldn't want to play in Golarion? It has mecha-scorpions, gods who ascended on a drunken dare, and uppity city-states full of riches in need of a good thrashing!

[Ninjaxenomorph]

So? They're PCs. They can just get in, sack the Gunworks, fight the Canon Golem load bearing boss, then get out. Then use their Gunslinger Gunsmith abilities to replicate the thing and whip up their own, setting themselves up for life, because apparently the entirety of Alkenstar itself cannot be assed to produce more than one single unit per day in some sort of unhinged bid for scarcity and monopoly maintenance.

Then on their way back they can make a trip through Thuvia and hijack some Sun Orchid elixir from the Citadel of the Alchemist. Then they can be rich and live forever.

1) Cannon golems, awesome as they are, are unlikely to exist in Alkenstar, as magic doesn't even work in half the place, and in the other half is Primal Magic Events.

2) Yeah, because everybody loves Primal Magic, Spellscar Fexts, and Mana Waste Mutants. And casters just love those anti-magic pockets.

[Lord Vukodlak]

So? They're PCs. They can just get in, sack the Gunworks, fight the Canon Golem load bearing boss, then get out. Then use their Gunslinger Gunsmith abilities to replicate the thing and whip up their own
And if they aren't in a campaign setting where advanced firearms exist?


Who wouldn't want to play in Golarion? It has mecha-scorpions, gods who ascended on a drunken dare, and uppity city-states full of riches in need of a good thrashing!Because many DM's like to design there own settings.

[Raven777]

Counterpoints!

1) Golems work in AMF

2) Environmental hazards and mutant beasts are just the soft fleshy package around the delicious, delicious Xp.

C'mon! Embrace your inner murder hobo! Go on an adventure! See the world!

As for being in a setting where advanced firearms exist, well, you can just disregard everything I said if they don't. Which would be a shame. Because my sacking Alkenstar scheme? Brilliant.

[Lord Vukodlak]

1) Golems work in AMF

Work in antimagic or dead magic yes, get constructed in such areas.... not so much.

[Raven777]

As for being non silly and actually constructive, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Reload, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot and Clustered Shots (to bypass DR) are usually the cornerstone of a Gunslinger. Rapid Reload combined with Alchemical Cartridges should indeed enable you to reload as a free action, and therefore, benefit from your full BAB to full attack properly.

There is also a handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11719683) on this very forum which should help you build further. As well as DrakeRocket's one (http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2modi?DrakeRockets-Guide-to-Grand-Gunslinginger) on the Paizo messageboards.

Note that I believe Extra Grit to be usually of dubious utility. Most of the best deeds only ask that you have one point in your Grit Pool, not that you actually spend it. And for those Deeds where you need to spend points, you can start grabbing Signature Deed to downscale to only need one point in the pool.

Do try to grab the Reliable weapon enchantment. Misfires can get really annoying to deal with.

[Cranthis]

Other than that middle bit about the golems, good advice guys, thanks. It all appears to work around itself, and take up all of my feats.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Sorry about that. Yeah, Gunslinger is EXTREMELY feat-intensive, especially for non-humans.

[Cranthis]

Sorry about that. Yeah, Gunslinger is EXTREMELY feat-intensive, especially for non-humans.

I'm being a Vanara for flavor and stats mostly. I might change my mind later of course, as I'm not playing this character until my Magus finally stops surviving things that should kill him.

[Cranthis]

If anyone does have anymore advice, feel free to chime in. Any good or just fun ideas for things to do with a gunslinger especially.

[Raven777]

You could get to 13th level so that you never misfire with pistols, then pick up 7 levels of Grand Marshal (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/shieldmarshal) for some urban-ranger / inquisitor flavored shenanigans? Or go all the way with Grand Marshal 10 if you keep your pistol enchanted with Reliable. The Legal Judgements give you some more cool abilities on top of your Deeds.

Have I mentioned you want to get Signature Deed (Up Close and Deadly) as soon as convenient? Because being able to add xd6 damage to every shot that hits as long as you have a point of grit in your pool is kind of a big deal.

[grarrrg]

You could get to 13th level so that you never misfire with pistols, then pick up 7 levels of Grand Marshal (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/s-z/shieldmarshal) for some urban-ranger / inquisitor flavored shenanigans? Or go all the way with Grand Marshal 10 if you keep your pistol enchanted with Reliable. The Legal Judgements give you some more cool abilities on top of your Deeds.

Have I mentioned you want to get Signature Deed (Up Close and Deadly) as soon as convenient? Because being able to add xd6 damage to every shot that hits as long as you have a point of grit in your pool is kind of a big deal.

Signature Deed requires Gunslinger 11, which means a maximum 9 levels of Grand Marshal.
Grand Marshal stacks 1/2 level for Gunslinger deeds, but the Signature Deed _feat_ specifically requires _levels_ of Gunslinger.


And re-reading Grand Marshal, I just noticed that his Quarry ability does not function by RAW.
"can declare one target within his line of sight as his quarry. This ability functions exactly like the ranger ability of the same name."
Ranger ability says:
"A ranger can have no more than one quarry at a time and the creature's type must correspond to one of his favored enemy types."
Grand Marshal doesn't get Favored Enemy as a feature.

RAI is probably "forget the favored enemy part" and just Quarry anyone you want.

[Raven777]

Ugh. Misremembered Signature Deed as requiring Attack Bonus +11, not Gunslinger 11. Can always go to 11th level. It's not like the Grand Marshal capstone is anything to fawn over.

[Ravens_cry]

Pepperboxes don't work for TWF, you still need a free hand
"The entire barrel housing can be quickly rotated by hand between shots (a free action requiring one free hand)"
And revolvers require "modern" firearm rules.

With the nerf to Weapon Cords you are stuck with getting another arm/limb/thing that can hold something, or having a very friendly Wizard friend to cast Reloading Hands twice for you.
Dang on the pepperboxes then. Double barrelled will do fine for low levels, though they have some not in substantial penalties. Still, if and when you can, get ye some revolvers.

[Cranthis]

Gun Marshall won't work. We are currently in the second book of the Skulls and Shackles adventure path (The sandbox part). Being a lawless pirate interferes with enforcing it. What deed would you recommend for Signature Deed?

Also, I'm not sure on the availability of advanced firearms, but if anything, I can always invent them myself.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Skull and Shackles might actually have a chance of finding one, actually.

[Cranthis]

Skull and Shackles might actually have a chance of finding one, actually.

Id say so, but I'll still have to check with my dm.

[Raven777]

Up Close and Deadly for Signature Deed, once you get to it, would be your best bet. Then you do not need to spend Grit to use it and can start using it on every attack you make that hits.

Hey. Since you are already playing a class from Ultimate Combat, ask your DM if he's allowing Called Shots (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/called-shots) from the same book. I used them on my Paladin Archer and they allowed me to pull nice trick shots when Smiting. They'd be even better on an actual Gunslinger since you target touch AC, so the attack penalty would sting less.

[Cranthis]

I believe what I just heard was precision damage headshots all day everyday.

Will you marry me Raven777?

Really good suggestion though.

[grarrrg]

Dang on the pepperboxes then. Double barrelled will do fine for low levels, though they have some not in substantial penalties. Still, if and when you can, get ye some revolvers.

While Pepperboxes won't help with dual-guns, they are quite handy on their own.
Either to be able to make multiple shots a round before Alchemical Cartridges are affordable, or to fill some of the chambers with "special" rounds, and let them sit while you use 1 or 2 for normal fighting. Then when the situation calls for it you can quickly use your special shots.

[Lord Vukodlak]

While Pepperboxes won't help with dual-guns, they are quite handy on their own.
Either to be able to make multiple shots a round before Alchemical Cartridges are affordable, or to fill some of the chambers with "special" rounds, and let them sit while you use 1 or 2 for normal fighting. Then when the situation calls for it you can quickly use your special shots.

Cost of a pepperbox over a regular pistol +2,000gp. For that two grand you could buy over 160 alchemical paper cartridge's. Not to mention it only costs 1gp more then the cost of a bullet and a dose of black powder. Gunslingers also use there gunsmithing feat to craft there own ammo further reducing the cost.

If your reloading the regular pistol as a free action due to rapid reload and cartridges. You don't need special shots loaded into the pepperbox you can just pull the special shots out as needed.

[Cranthis]

Cost of a pepperbox over a regular pistol +2,000gp. For that two grand you could buy over 160 alchemical paper cartridge's. Not to mention it only costs 1gp more then the cost of a bullet and a dose of black powder. Gunslingers also use there gunsmithing feat to craft there own ammo further reducing the cost.

If your reloading the regular pistol as a free action due to rapid reload and cartridges. You don't need special shots loaded into the pepperbox you can just pull the special shots out as needed.

And with one rank in craft Alchemy, 330 paper shots made in two days, instead of a week or two of sea travel to get a pepperbox.