Red hand of Doom: Go to hell!

[Arskanator]

So, I've been running RhoD for my group, taking a little break now as one of the players went abroad for a bit. I don't think I've ever heard of this happening in the campaign, so I decided to ask if anyone has experienced the same situation.

After clearing Rhest, they found and looted Reggie's lair. The treasure was plentiful and joy was being had. Then they came across the Ghostlord's phylactery. The group's cleric aced his knowledge religion roll, and managed to identify what it was. The group's barbarian however, hearing that the thing was a vessel of life force of an evil undead wizard/sorcerer/whatever, decided to pick up the mace they had found from the lair as well, and used it to bash the phylactery in to tiny pieces.

Barbarians. Gotta love them.

We stopped the session here, as I had to come up with a way to un**** the party. The way I saw this going down was either of these:

1. The party proceeds as planned in the module, going over to Ghostlord's lair. When meeting up with him, they would tell what they did with his phylactery and promptly get slaughtered. Game over.

2. They don't go give him a visit, at which point the Ghostlord will simply join the battle of Brindol, and the party will end up slaughtered. Game over.

But thankfully, I have a lot of friends who play D&D as well. One of them gave me an idea, which I used to create a way for them to survive. Long story short, the lich felt his phylactery be destroyed, tracked the party down after killing the goblins in his lair, and stepped on the party. Having their attention, he tasked them with getting him a MacGuffin to make himself a new phylactery. This also involved them getting him a soul to fuel the thing with, so this meant a trip to Avernus for the party, hence the title of the Thread.

So what I was asking was, has anyone else had the players outright destroying GL's phylactery? And if so, how did you solve the situation?

[Malroth]

Melee guy: I Iron Heart Surge the Plot

[OldTrees1]

I have never player/read RHoD.

Possibility:
The Lich discovers their Phylactery has been destroyed and takes fewer risks while making a new one. The party might never find the (now much more paranoid/craven) Lich and thus never risk the auto-lose fight. Depending on the time it takes the Lich to make a new Phylactery, the party might win the Battle of Brindol before the Lich recovers from the loss.

[Arskanator]

Post omitted for reasons of stupidity. Namely mine.

[OldTrees1]

Oh, I missed that paragraph. That is another good solution. Very fitting for the power differential.

[Ortesk]

I never DMed red hand of doom, I did however beat Ghost lord on my own at level 8. Take pride they didnt kill him?

[Arskanator]

I never DMed red hand of doom, I did however beat Ghost lord on my own at level 8. Take pride they didnt kill him?

Well the way he's presented in the module, GL is super weaksauce. And the staff with Heal charges is one way to ruin any undead's day. How did you do it btw?

[Ortesk]

Well the way he's presented in the module, GL is super weaksauce. And the staff with Heal charges is one way to ruin any undead's day. How did you do it btw?

Was fairly easy. Hes a druid if memory serves, he doesnt have much in the way of divination prediction magic (I remember finding that amusing)

Barb 3/fighter 2/Warblade 3

Whisper Gnome Charger.

1) Darkstalker
F) Power Attack
F) Improved Bull Rush
3) Wreckless Rage
F1) Improved Inititiave
F2) Leap Attack
6) Shock Trooper

Had Gauntlets of Ogre Str +2, Valerous Greatsword. Was at an 18 Base str and 18 dex, with tool kits i was at a 21 Hide and Move silent, took a 10 on it and snuck up and charged him and pounced. Just had the wizard detect magic until we found the phylactery and then shattered it

[danzibr]

Was fairly easy. Hes a druid if memory serves, he doesnt have much in the way of divination prediction magic (I remember finding that amusing)

Barb 3/fighter 2/Warblade 3

Whisper Gnome Charger.

1) Darkstalker
F) Power Attack
F) Improved Bull Rush
3) Wreckless Rage
F1) Improved Inititiave
F2) Leap Attack
6) Shock Trooper

Had Gauntlets of Ogre Str +2, Valerous Greatsword. Was at an 18 Base str and 18 dex, with tool kits i was at a 21 Hide and Move silent, took a 10 on it and snuck up and charged him and pounced. Just had the wizard detect magic until we found the phylactery and then shattered it
Hmm, a *Whisper Gnome* charger. Interesting. I never thought of a small ubercharger. Nice build.

[Ravens_cry]

Hmm, a *Whisper Gnome* charger. Interesting. I never thought of a small ubercharger. Nice build.
Well, it actually makes sense if you think about it. Most dungeons don't support larger than medium creatures that well. You are taking a surprisingly small theoretical damage hit to be able to actually fit in most campaigns.

[Big Fau]

There's actually a RHoD handbook floating around here, and it addresses the possibility of the Ghostlord's phylactery being destroyed.

Short version: He's none too happy about having it stolen by the RH, but would be absolutely livid over its destruction. However, he would have to know it was lost or destroyed. Unless the party tells him you can just continue the module as if they never found it.

As a side note, the actual fight with the Ghostlord would be fairly lopsided if your party is as optimized as the barbarian. It would be a game of "Did I win initiative?", as it would be 4-against-1. If the charger went first he could potentially one-shot the lich, although the party as a whole would be able to just overwhelm him with the action economy.

[Dr. Cliché]

1. The party proceeds as planned in the module, going over to Ghostlord's lair. When meeting up with him, they would tell what they did with his phylactery and promptly get slaughtered. Game over.

2. They don't go give him a visit, at which point the Ghostlord will simply join the battle of Brindol, and the party will end up slaughtered. Game over.

But thankfully, I have a lot of friends who play D&D as well. One of them gave me an idea, which I used to create a way for them to survive. Long story short, the lich felt his phylactery be destroyed, tracked the party down after killing the goblins in his lair, and stepped on the party. Having their attention, he tasked them with getting him a MacGuffin to make himself a new phylactery. This also involved them getting him a soul to fuel the thing with, so this meant a trip to Avernus for the party, hence the title of the Thread.

As a question, would the lich know (or bother to find out) that it was the party who destroyed his phylactery?

I ask because I thought it was the Red Hand who stole his phylactery, and used it to blackmail him into aiding their campaign.

So, if something happened to it before they returned it to him, surely he'd lay the blame for its destruction squarely at their doorstep? I mean, he's already got to be furious at them for daring to steal it - allowing it to be destroyed would surely be the final straw? it seems like he wouldn't care that it was a third-party (:smallwink:) who actually destroyed it - it was in the care of the Red Hand, and they allowed it to be destroyed.

It seems that, at the very least, he would withdraw his support (since, as far as he's concerned, they've broken the terms of their agreement). And, he might even decide to take vengeance on them (though he may wait until after he's crafted a new phylactery).

[Marnath]

Liches can't make a new phylactery. It says that in Libris Mortis. Your Ghostlord is screwed once he dies. Which he will unless your players are not very good.

[jedipilot24]

Liches can't make a new phylactery. It says that in Libris Mortis. Your Ghostlord is screwed once he dies. Which he will unless your players are not very good.

Hmm...I looked that up, you're right.
In that case, I suggest retconning the whole 'trip to Avernus' thing as the pissed Ghostlord trying to get revenge for the destruction of his phylactery. What better way than to send them on a pointless mission to the first layer of Hell where they can be ambushed and killed by Devils?
In this case I also suggestion having everyone in the party roll Knowledge (religion) to "remember" that Liches can't build new phylacteries.

Both the module and the handbook here on GITP suggest making the Ghostlord a willing participant in the Red Hand if the phylactery is destroyed.
Just how optimized is the party?

[Greymane]

I don't recommend a trip to Avernus. You're fighting an army loyal to Tiamat and Tiamat lives on Avernus.

[Coidzor]

Red Hand of Doom Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171284)

IIRC, he has some thoughts in there for what to do if they destroy the phylactery.

On the other hand, having them TPK on the Ghost Lord because they were impulsive and didn't stop to think might be a learning experience for their next batch of characters, possibly the group sent to take the gold to the dwarven mercenaries.

And if the Ghost Lord knows his phylactery is destroyed then the Red Hand loses its hold over him. Depending upon how the PCs are portrayed, he might *not* decide to take vengeance on Brindol. Could be a good post Fane followup, dealing with the Ghost Lord who is mobilizing, having taken advantage of all of the handy-dandy corpses that the two armies thoughtfully left for him and and now looking for a way to make a new phylactery.

[Fouredged Sword]

He can make a second phylactery. He just has to become a non-lich first. Resurrection magic is fairy cheep and easy.

It would be a major pain, but I second a new more cautious outlook while sending the party after a scroll of true resurrection and the components needed to re-lich himself.

[Ortesk]

Hmm, a *Whisper Gnome* charger. Interesting. I never thought of a small ubercharger. Nice build.

Thanks, and honestly i wanted to have another option than me hit thing. The small guy was very good at sneaking and hiding, and could charge from the shadows and the BBEG is now flat footed, and it solves the issue of the BBEG beating me on init

[Darcand]

I have never player/read RHoD.

Possibility:
The Lich discovers their Phylactery has been destroyed and takes fewer risks while making a new one. The party might never find the (now much more paranoid/craven) Lich and thus never risk the auto-lose fight. Depending on the time it takes the Lich to make a new Phylactery, the party might win the Battle of Brindol before the Lich recovers from the loss.

I think that this is the right answer. With his phylactery destroyed any lich worth his salt would immediately withdraw to plot out his next move.


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[BlackestOfMages]

well, the ghostlord is only helping the red hand because they have/had his phalacatry, so if he found out it had been destroyed, he'd probably pull support for the red hand anyway.

put simply you could have him find out and then have him withdraw support for the red hand, just as bargaining with the phalactry is supposed to make him do anyway. afterall, he no longer has a reason to help them. mayhaps have him then usurp the casualties of both armies after its done and become a second big bad if your players want to continue playing.

though your outlined plan works to, and would be fun as its always akick to invade hell (even if normally litches can't make new phalatacries, your the DM so you make the call over the rulebook). just have to watch out for tiamat

also, no offense, but he's also a push over unless you give him a reworking I don't see him TpKing the party.