Initial problems with RHoD

[Fooliscious]

I am running RHoD in a pathfinder setting and have come across a problem. I let it slip that goblins were a large chunk of encounters in a pregaming session, and lo and behold, people show up with goblin-bane weapons. They are one shotting things left and right, especially the ranger with favored enemy - goblinoid. Fluff-wise, it makes sense to have them, but dammit!

Is there any way to counter bane? I noticed that goblinoids are no longer on the bane list, they are treated as humanoid. Does the pc have to pick between hobbo and gobbo?

I don't have the character sheet in front of me, but somehow the ranger is doing a passive +10 per damage roll against gobbos in addition to crossbow damage. That seems a bit too much for a level 5 character. She's also planning on picking up a wand of Instant Enemy when she has the money. I'm thinking about saying no straight up, as I don't think there are any rangers high enough level to craft it nearby anyway.

[Occasional Sage]

If you don't want to stray too far from the published encounters, add a leavening of other creature types; goblin dogs (or whatever those gross scabrous rat-things are called) come to mind. Send in one with every other goblin, and when the gobbos see that one guy is scary, they all send the dogs to mob him.

Horsechoppers are a mechanically solid weapon, and a goblin creation. Add them to the arsenal to fight with reach, while the goblin dogs handle close melee.

Set PCs on fire from a distance with an alchemist bombing them. He withdraws once the rest hit melee. Rinse and repeat. This is a very goblin tactic.

Disarm, and take AoO when thhe PC picks up the weapon. You also win if they draw a less-optimal secondary weapon.

[Axinian]

I second the use of reach weapons. Most of the hobgoblins are supposed to be speed-bumps, so make them harder to get to, but being able to one-shot a hobgoblin regular is quite intended. I got a lot of mileage out of turning the hobgoblins into spartan phalanx fighters (see sig, shameless plug)

You may also just want to buff up all the hobgoblins in general. As printed they're rather weak, see the handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171284)

As the campaign goes on, goblin-bane will be less of a problem. There's a lot of ogres and spawn of tiamat in part 2, and part 3 is pretty much all undead. Part 4 will have some goblins, but it's mostly dragons, and part 5 the hobgoblins shouldn't even be trying to fight the PCs. It's all dragons and outsiders.

[limejuicepowder]

It bugs the heck out of me when players do this. Unless there's a good in-character reason for them to have invested a lot of gold and hours of training on fighting goblinoids, they should be not coming prepped like that. This is metagaming of the worst sort.

Fortunately, there's several ways to work around this. Ranged tactics (something small creatures like goblins should be using anyways) will be effective in that most bane-type things are more melee focused.

I think the best thing to do though is use some goblin rangers against them. If they want to stock up on goblin-hate, "teach them a lesson" by attacking them with an elite group of humanoid slaying goblins. Arm them with bane weapons, favored enemy, and improved favored enemy. To make it more of a surprise, have the goblins disguise themselves as normal goblins - until they TWF for regular damage + 2d6 + X (of higher, if you want to take advantage of favored power attack from CW). I would not feel bad about some PC death, honestly. Best thing about this is that when (if) the PC's survive, their loot is a bunch of bane weapons to things they aren't fighting.

Did I mention I really hate metagaming?

[Fax Celestis]

Your characters are competent at something right now. Later on, when goblins stop being threatening and start being more like an ablative wall of meat for more powerful creatures, they are going to have issues.

[Kaveman26]

I would rather a degree of meta gaming over useless class abilities. Nothing like being a ranger who favors fighting dragons and giants then everything you fight is devils and undead. They are devoting resources and abilities to fighting goblins. Down the road they will lament lack of dragon bane. It equals out in end.

[Occasional Sage]

The point as I understand it isn't to punish the players or kill the party, but to provide enough challenge to make the fights feel worth the time for both sides. Mostly, a steamroll encounter (and especially a series of them) is unsatisfying for both sides.

[limejuicepowder]

Maybe I'm just unreasonably steamed then :)

[Fooliscious]

My biggest concern is the wyrmlords. Koth and Ulwai in particular. They are going to get annihilated. I perused the RHoD handbook on here and changed mostly everything, cept the dragons. I have 0 idea how they plan on fighting the dragons and winning. So I guess it is going to even out.

I played the goblins tactically, it's kind of impressive the damage a simple longbow can dish out with there is 6 of them, but as soon as they closed they were toast with their 20 movement speed. I also phalanxed them too, that made the pc's super nervous at first.

More I think about it it's specifically the ranger, the rogue isn't all that bad I suppose. Flavor-wise, the ranger's tactics make sense. She is the daughter of that ranger that lives in the Witchwood, and he's a wee bit obsessed. She's just so damned strong for her level. I think I am going to draw the line at that wand she wants though.

Campaign journals seem to be popular for this, any interest in me doing one?

[Fooliscious]

The point as I understand it isn't to punish the players or kill the party, but to provide enough challenge to make the fights feel worth the time for both sides. Mostly, a steamroll encounter (and especially a series of them) is unsatisfying for both sides.

The very first fight took near two hours, with very little danger to the pc's. Definitely not fun.

[Big Fau]

My biggest concern is the wyrmlords. Koth and Ulwai in particular. They are going to get annihilated. I perused the RHoD handbook on here and changed mostly everything, cept the dragons. I have 0 idea how they plan on fighting the dragons and winning. So I guess it is going to even out.

I played the goblins tactically, it's kind of impressive the damage a simple longbow can dish out with there is 6 of them, but as soon as they closed they were toast with their 20 movement speed. I also phalanxed them too, that made the pc's super nervous at first.

More I think about it it's specifically the ranger, the rogue isn't all that bad I suppose. Flavor-wise, the ranger's tactics make sense. She is the daughter of that ranger that lives in the Witchwood, and he's a wee bit obsessed. She's just so damned strong for her level. I think I am going to draw the line at that wand she wants though.

Campaign journals seem to be popular for this, any interest in me doing one?


I am running RHoD in a pathfinder setting and have come across a problem. I let it slip that goblins were a large chunk of encounters in a pregaming session, and lo and behold, people show up with goblin-bane weapons. They are one shotting things left and right, especially the ranger with favored enemy - goblinoid. Fluff-wise, it makes sense to have them, but dammit!

Is there any way to counter bane? I noticed that goblinoids are no longer on the bane list, they are treated as humanoid. Does the pc have to pick between hobbo and gobbo?

I don't have the character sheet in front of me, but somehow the ranger is doing a passive +10 per damage roll against gobbos in addition to crossbow damage. That seems a bit too much for a level 5 character. She's also planning on picking up a wand of Instant Enemy when she has the money. I'm thinking about saying no straight up, as I don't think there are any rangers high enough level to craft it nearby anyway.

Wait, why are you concerned about a mere +10? Goblins are supposed to be cannon fodder at 5th level, and a majority of the early encounters are against footsoldiers that aren't supposed to stand a chance.

The Wyrmlords should be powerhouses compared to that. If you're worried, ask for help redesigning them (Kharn in particular doesn't need those Talon of Tiamat levels when we have several options for Breath Weapon emulation).

[Coidzor]

The very first fight took near two hours, with very little danger to the pc's. Definitely not fun.

So what did that time come from?

[Fooliscious]

Most of the time came from the gobbo's hiding in the trees shooting arrow while the pc's stumbled about trying to find them.

As far as the +10 goes, most enemies in this module don't have more than 18 ac, and it's really not all that fun slogging through enemies that don't do anything. I'd like the hobbos/gobbos to be something to care about.

For whatever reason I thought koth was a hobgoblin. Bugbear, derp. 2nd session is tonight, will see how things go. I'm afraid a random encounter tendriculous is going to eat and kill someone >.<.

[Adverb]

My own experiences with RHoD suggest that Favored Enemy and/or bane weapons are insignificant compared to the power of The Force a good blaster wizard. I know, I know, blasting isn't optimal, etc. But I don't think I've ever played a campaign as well-suited to blasting and AoE damage as this one.

I'd read a campaign journal, all the same.

[Coidzor]

Most of the time came from the gobbo's hiding in the trees shooting arrow while the pc's stumbled about trying to find them.

As far as the +10 goes, most enemies in this module don't have more than 18 ac, and it's really not all that fun slogging through enemies that don't do anything. I'd like the hobbos/gobbos to be something to care about.

Well, unless you alter the Witchwood or Skull Gorge Bridge significantly, that particular issue shouldn't come up again, at least.

I suppose you could switch out Koth and have the Dragonspawn Arcaniss idea instead, or just make his spell selection tougher and have some organization rather than having them be off-guard at the keep by default when the PCs arrive. With the keep though, the main players are the manticore, the minotaur, and Koth, with the goblinoids mostly as extra spot and listen checks and bodies for support/blocking by the time the party gets there rather than legit threats themselves. The bladebearer and caster in the first encounter are supposed to be the most threatening individual goblinoids other than the wyrmlords, as I recall.

The Red Hand of Doom Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171284) has some other ideas related to beefing things up, IIRC.


For whatever reason I thought koth was a hobgoblin. Bugbear, derp. 2nd session is tonight, will see how things go. I'm afraid a random encounter tendriculous is going to eat and kill someone >.<.

The witchwood is pretty nasty, IIRC, the Hydra in particular is fairly infamous. I'd forgotten tendriculous were random encounters, even. XD

[Fooliscious]

Last night went pretty well. Koth did some entertaining things, but as soon as the ranger got line-of-sight he died in two rounds. Vital strike with a heavy crossbow hurts. Fun fact, the spell blindness/deafness is permanent, as my Magus pc now knows. They have now learned they are significantly less effective against anything not goblinoid. Guess I overreacted a bit.

I am definitely retyping the next wyrmlords. With additional attacks, the ranger will absolutely murder them.

Blasting is pretty effective, no blaster though. The oracle just learned fireball, so that should be fun.

I think I am going to attempt a campaign journal, if for no one else other than myself. Look around for it, should have it up in a few hours.