Does Half-ogre have any redeeming value?

[CyberThread]

As a pure character, does half -ogre have anything going for it, that is worth the +2 LA?

[Snowbluff]

It is if you an incarnate warforged.

[Phelix-Mu]

"Pure character?"

I know that, from a DM perspective, I liked this template because it gave me a place to aim for low LA, no HD large player character races.

As for PCs, I understand that War Hulks can benefit from this kind of thing. But most just go half-giant instead.

Role play-wise, this is, like many templates, very interesting fodder for an unusual backstory. Can get a bit contrived in some cases, but I personally tend to like PCs of unusual ilk. Personal bias.

[Karnith]

As a pure character, does half -ogre have anything going for it, that is worth the +2 LA?
So, just to be clear, which Half-Ogre are we talking about? From "pure character" and "+2 LA," I'd guess that you're talking about the Races of Destiny version, which is a race, but there's also the template from Dragon 313, and earlier versions of the race.

[Runestar]

To me, +6str, +4NA and large size seems about worth +2LA. Granted, you have 2 fewer HD, so you will be fairly fragile at lower levels.

[ArcturusV]

Depends on what you mean by "pure character". One of my favorite 2nd edition characters was a Half-Ogre Druid who had a house cat Animal Companion. In so far as characterization, how his savage upbringing reflected how he interpreted his Druidic Oaths and duties. True Neutral, one of the few times I picked that alignment that it actually "worked" for me.

And if I wasn't a Half-Ogre, I don't think I could have played a good "True Neutral" as I played it up as the Animalistic nature. A man who was driven by animal cunning and base desires rather than trying to be philosophically neutral... or game "Lightside and Darkside points" like some people suggest True Neutral is.

As far as pure mechanics? I hate anything that really has LA in 3rd edition, mechanically.

[Malimar]

It's the lowest-ECL way to get Large size without shenanigans. That alone makes it plenty worth it.

To some people (read: to me), there's something viscerally better about actually being Large than merely being treated as Large, even if Medium+Powerful Build is mechanically better.

[EugeneVoid]

I think it also interacts with Orcs.

[OldTrees1]

It's the lowest-ECL way to get Large size without shenanigans. That alone makes it plenty worth it.

To some people (read: to me), there's something viscerally better about actually being Large than merely being treated as Large, even if Medium+Powerful Build is mechanically better.

There exist 2 +1LA templates that also grant the Large size with nice ability modifiers. However I agree that the Half-Ogre is a good 3rd option for achieving true Large Size.

[Phelix-Mu]

There exist 2 +1LA templates that also grant the Large size with nice ability modifiers. However I agree that the Half-Ogre is a good 3rd option for achieving true Large Size.

Source me, if you don't mind.

[OldTrees1]

Source me, if you don't mind.

I was referring to the Half Minotaur and Half Ogre templates from Dragon Magazine(#313). The ones that are nicely balanced if size modifiers to stats are ignored.

[Phelix-Mu]

I was referring to the Half Minotaur and Half Ogre templates from Dragon Magazine(#313). The ones that are nicely balanced if size modifiers to stats are ignored.

Do you happen to know which version of the half-ogre was printed first? I've just realized that this one you are talking about isn't the same (one a race, the other a template...missed that even though someone else specifically noted that, lol).

I ask because I have a homebrew race of large creatures and am looking for guidelines on how to balance their LA. Large playable races are pretty rare, unless you want to eat a bunch of RHD (which pretty much puts the kibosh on playability).

[Karnith]

Do you happen to know which version of the half-ogre was printed first?
The Savage Species Half-Ogre (a race) was printed in February 2003, the Dragon Magazine #313 version (template) in November 2003, and the Races of Destiny version (race) in December 2004.

There's also the Dragonlance Campaign Setting Half-Ogres (August 2003), but they're not talked about so much (probably because they're not so great).

[Chronos]

Quoth Malimar:

To some people (read: to me), there's something viscerally better about actually being Large than merely being treated as Large, even if Medium+Powerful Build is mechanically better.
Actually, the biggest advantage of large size is the increased reach, and that's one of the few things that Powerful Build doesn't give you. Yeah, Powerful Build doesn't give you penalties to Hide or Escape Artist, but that's usually not something you're aiming for with that kind of character, anyway.

[Ravens_cry]

It imply very, very ugly backstory.:thog:

[Phelix-Mu]

The Savage Species Half-Ogre (a race) was printed in February 2003, the Dragon Magazine #313 version (template) in November 2003, and the Races of Destiny version (race) in December 2004.

There's also the Dragonlance Campaign Setting Half-Ogres (August 2003), but they're not talked about so much (probably because they're not so great).

Many thanks for elucidating the matter. I'm not familiar with Dragon Magz vintages, so I wanted to be clear the order they came out.

Now, I know I've asked for a lot, but anyone got a link to a summary of what was in that Dragon Magz template?:smallsmile: Pretty please?:smalltongue:

[OldTrees1]

Summary of the templates:
Half Ogre (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/half-ogre.shtml)
Half Minotaur (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/half-minotaur.shtml)

[Phelix-Mu]

A million thanks to those that have been helpful. I've been updating a homebrew large race from my 2e/3.0 materials, and I realized that I needed to retweak the whole thing or it would never be a good choice as a race.

I kind of miss the days of 2e. Call it big, plunk on some bonus hp and thick hide. Set racial mins and max and starting adjustments. Done.

[CyberThread]

ROD trumps, dragon, was published later

[Coidzor]

ROD trumps, dragon, was published later

Got some comma splices going on here, mate. :smallconfused:

Also, you never explained what you meant by "pure character," as that's not really a commonly used term or a term defined in the language of the game.

[CyberThread]

Pure character is when you look inot someones eyes, and gaze into the soul. They look at you , not blinking once.


That is someone who you can trust to have your back.

[Coidzor]

Pure character is when you look inot someones eyes, and gaze into the soul. They look at you , not blinking once.


That is someone who you can trust to have your back.

What, you mean Exalted/Saint characters, then?

In that case, I suppose the increased reach is nice, but the LA+2 combined with the LA+2 from applying the Saint Template is going to take the character into unplayable/NPC only territory.

The better PrCs for melee from BoED are casting related, but a Barbarian>Champion of Gwynharrwyf would like the size-increase, as long as LA buyoff was in play.

Tunnel-Fighting would likely be a feat tax they'd have to pay, though.

[Curmudgeon]

ROD trumps, dragon, was published later
I'm not sure I'm parsing your statement correctly, given the excess commas. If you're saying that the Races of Destiny race replaces the Dragon magazine template, then that's incorrect. While new content with the same name in the same category replaces older same-named content, races and templates are different categories. Only an explicit statement that the template is obviated by the race will do, and there's no such statement in Races of Destiny. The newer race in Races of Destiny does replace that from Savage Species, of course.

[The Viscount]

I personally like using primordial giant on it, as the canceling stat adjustments make for a rather nice adjustment. Of the means mentioned here, the Half-Ogre race is the most likely to be accepted, as many DMs regard dragon magazine with some suspicion.

[Akal Saris]

Is there truly no redeeming value in an ogre finding love across racial boundaries?

[Zombulian]

ROD trumps, dragon, was published later

Did your fingers slip and hit the comma a couple times?
I'm not sure that RoD would override Dragon, simply because the one from the magazine is a template not a race.

[Thurbane]

I have much love for half-ogres, been playing them since 1E.

+2 LA is a bit sucky, but if LA buyoff is available, it doesn't hurt so much.

Also, only (official) no RHD large race that I am aware of.

As a side question, which no-RHD +2 LA race (if any) do people consider worthwhile? Drow? Githyanki? Karsite?

[Zombulian]

I have much love for half-ogres, been playing them since 1E.

+2 LA is a bit sucky, but if LA buyoff is available, it doesn't hurt so much.

Also, only (official) no RHD large race that I am aware of.

As a side question, which no-RHD +2 LA race (if any) do people consider worthwhile? Drow? Githyanki? Karsite?

I would think out of any of the Gith, Githzerai are more worth it simply for their stats. Do catfolk have +2LA?

[ArqArturo]

Reach shenanigans, especially if you use a spiked chain.

[Coidzor]

I would think out of any of the Gith, Githzerai are more worth it simply for their stats. Do catfolk have +2LA?

IIRC, Catfolk are LA+1.

[Thurbane]

IIRC, Catfolk are LA+1.
They are indeed.

And of the official +1 LA races, they have the equal best net ability modifiers (+6 total, only matched by Merfolk). And with 40 ft base move and +1 natural AC, they are definitely one of the better +1 LA races IMHO.

[Zombulian]

They are indeed.

And of the official +1 LA races, they have the equal best net ability modifiers (+6 total, only matched by Merfolk). And with 40 ft base move and +1 natural AC, they are definitely one of the better +1 LA races IMHO.

And the ability to simply take a feat for Pounce.

[Amphetryon]

Is there truly no redeeming value in an ogre finding love across racial boundaries?

What's love got to do with it? What's love but a second-hand emotion?

. . . I'll see myself out. :smallredface: